Talk:Illinois Tollway oasis

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Former good articleIllinois Tollway oasis was one of the Engineering and technology good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 10, 2010Good article nomineeListed
December 24, 2011Good article reassessmentDelisted
Current status: Delisted good article

Rare in the US?[edit]

"While rare in the US, this form of development is common in the UK."

It's true that the UK has full services on most of its toll-free motorways (freeways) - but surely it's also true that such developments are common along tolled interstates in the US? In fact I think they exist on all of the tolled sections of I-90 from Illinois to the east coast (the Northwest Tollway, Chicago Skyway (a McDonalds at the toll plaza), Indiana Toll Road, Ohio Turnpike, New York State Thruway and Massachusetts Turnpike). As far as I'm aware, the only really unusual aspect of the Illinois oases is that most of them are built above the road, with pedestrian entrances from both parking areas.

Mtford 00:17, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But that's the point. They're not permitted on the free highways, which the United States certainly has thousands more miles of, and really only exist in a few states with toll highways. I can't think of any such developments in Kansas or Oklahoma, for example, and I've driven both. --JohnDBuell 01:24, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hm. I don't remember seeing service areas on the Kansas Turnpike when I last visited, but the article provides photographic evidence of their existance. Still, if it's only the toll/turnpike authorities that have some sort of service center/plaza (and there aren't any listed for Indiana, nor the North Texas system, along with Oklahoma), that's only about six out of fifty states. I'd say that's uncommon enough... --JohnDBuell 01:33, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Indiana has them: see this map. I agree that 7 out of 50 states is uncommon - but I think "rare" is the wrong word for the article. Rarity suggests that the service plazas are distributed randomly with a low density - in fact there is a very high density of service plazas in areas where toll roads exist (e.g. seven in one metropolitan area!), but those areas themselves are rare. Saying that service plazas are rare in the US is like saying that Americans are rare in the world, on the grounds that they make up only 5% of the population (i.e. they are not so rare if you look in the appropriate place). Mtford 20:03, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well okay, but they do have at least an uncommon distribution for total mileage over U.S. Interstate Highways. So perhaps "While an uncommon sight along Interstate Highways in the United States, this form of development...." ? --JohnDBuell 21:01, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have added Pennsylvania and Florida to the list. I can't think of any state-run, long distance toll road system that does not have commerical rest areas. Racepacket (talk) 19:31, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Highway oasis[edit]

This is not a unique phenomenon; this article should be merged to Highway oasis, which should possibly be merged to Rest area. Any objections? —Quarl (talk) 2007-02-28 09:38Z

  • Although it is not unique to Illinois, there is enough specific here to deserve Wikipedia coverage. They have enough secondary sources to establish notability. Racepacket (talk) 19:33, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Illinois Tollway oasis/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Arsenikk (talk) 23:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The article has a fundamental flaw in that it fails to apply the basic principles of summary style and lead. The lead is to be a short summary of all aspects of the article, which is then covered in much more detail in the main body. In this article, the lead and the "history" section cover two completely different aspects. Most of the information available in the lead is not available in the "history" section, and important aspects of the history is not covered in the lead. At the current length, the lead should be no more than a single paragraph. The second paragraph of the lead talks exclusively about other Interstate-side oases in the country, but barely mentions the one in questions. This is a diversion that probably should be removed from the article, but a short mention may be appropriate in the history section. This information is also unreferenced.

The history section focuses on recent events and controversy. I would also like to see how these, and only these seven, oases received the rights they did. Where they grandfathered? There needs to be a section called 'facilities' or similar, that discusses the amenities and facilities available, including restaurant, retailing and fuel brands, plus any other facilities that are available. The "locations" section is difficult to compare, because all the information is crammed into a single line. Instead, convert it to a table with the items 'name', 'route', 'tollway', 'location' and 'coordinates'. This information also needs a reference (except the coordinates). Consider dropping the Illinois-suffix on the place names, since that is already understood by the article title.

Some comments about the prose:

  • The article fails to mention the country (only the state). Make the first instance of 'Illinois' 'Illinois, United States' (liking the state, but no the country).
  • 'US Federal' is redundant, as there is only a single federal government in the US (the country has already been established).
  • In the image caption, it should be "O'Hare", not "OHare".
  • I would have thought it was better to say "*from* 2003 to 2005".
  • Measurements need to be converted, preferably with the {{convert}} template. While people from metric countries usually know what a foot is, they typically do not know what ' means.
  • By 30' [sic], do you mean in increased height or total height after change?
  • Truss should be wikilinked.
  • I presume that Wilton is paying the money to ISTHA, but the sentence needs to be rewritten to make this explicit.
  • Never, ever use two-letter "postal" state abbreviations, since they are completely alienating for non-Americans and even people from the US cannot keep track of them half the time. It is very likely unnecessary to need to state that Los Angeles is in California.
  • Determine if Wilton Partners is notable enough for an article (if they are investing in the $100-million range and having lawsuits, they almost certainly are). In such case, create a link to them, even if it remains red.
  • Chicago Tribune should be wikilinked (and of course remain in italics).
  • The first sentence in the paragraph starting with "Businessmen" sounds a bit awkward; I think another verb is needed early in the sentence.
  • Some of the references are formatted incorrectly. They should use the {{cite web}} or similar template, and contain at minimum a title, publisher or author and accessdate. Date and other parameters should be added if available.
  • The only external link that is acceptable here is the official site.
  • Image licenses are okay—however, their size is not. Never force image sizes unless you have a very particular reason (usually only maps). The top image can be larger, but should be no more than 300px. The rest should just be left at default size.

I am placing the article on hold. Arsenikk (talk) 23:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the slightly delayed reply. The article is looking a lot better today, but there are a few more small things that need to be touched up:

  • Refs 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 21 lack publisher or author information, and ref 1 is not formatted in any way. Ref 11 lacks a title.
  • Mileposts need to be in metric as well; use {{convert|18|km|mi|table=on}} to get the conversion template to create two columns.
  • Could there be made a redirect from all the individual oases names (Belvidere Oasis etc.)
  • The upper external links need somewhat more descriptive title (along the line of the bottom one). Remember that "web site" should be in lower case.
  • I am a little uncertain about the capitalization of the title. I would have said that "Illinois Tollway Oasis" was a proper noun, and therefore should be all-caps. But perhaps you have evidence that it is a common noun? (this is a tricky rule)
    • I think that oasis is a common noun, and the plural form "oases" is used to refer to multiple rest stops. Belvidere Oasis is obviously a proper noun which refers to a specific business establishment. The title of the article does not refer to any particular establishment. I took the style as I found it. Racepacket (talk) 13:38, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikilink "iPass" and write the first letter with small "i".
    • Wikipedia and the Illinois Tollway both use the capital I. I have added the wikilink to the correct article. Racepacket (talk) 14:10, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • If units of measurement is in a parenthesis, use disp=/ in the the {{convert}} template to create a slash and avoid a double end parenthesis.
  • When writing suffixes to place names, such as "Los Angeles, California," there needs to be a comma (or period) after the suffix.
  • The text under "locations" should probably be referenced, even if it is just a dupe of the ones from the table.
  • The last sentence under "locations" definitively needs a ref.
  • The lead is still too short. Find the most important information from the three main section, and add to the lead. Don't worry about duplicating information—there is nothing wrong about repeating information from the lead. See WP:LEAD.

A lot better, but still a few more things to do, so the article is still on hold. Arsenikk (talk) 10:14, 19 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am passing the article. Arsenikk (talk) 19:06, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA Reassessment[edit]

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Illinois Tollway oasis/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
    The writing and such are mostly fine, but I have several comments that should be resolved.
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
    See below.
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    This is fine.
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
    This is also good.
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    The third photo caption is not a full sentence and shouldn't have terminal punctuation.
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    The sourcing issues need to be resolved so that this can stay listed. I'm holding the article for seven days before delisting. Imzadi 1979 → 00:12, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Prose comments
  • Why is "Oasis" capitalized in the lead sentence, but not the article title? Is it a proper noun or a common noun? Either way, the discrepancy should be resolved by moving the article, or dropping the cap in the sentence.
  • An "interstate highway" is any highway that crosses state lines; an "Interstate Highway" is a component of the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways, regardless if that component, like I-294 or I-355, does not cross a state line. I would audit the article to verify that the capitalization is correct.
  • The "Description and current status" section could use a copy edit. The prose uses many repetitions of the words "oasis" or "oases", when alternate words like "location", "site", etc can be substituted for variety.
  • "The Tollway" isn't the name of the agency that owns these facilities. The proper name is the Illinois State Toll Highway Authority, which is abbreviated ISTHA. We shouldn't be using colloquial terms to refer to the agency when its official name and abbreviation are already given in the article.
  • "They featured Standard Oil (Amoco) gas stations and Fred Harvey restaurants, and were something of a novelty in the region - becoming destinations in and of themselves for driving customers." That sentence has a dash error [the hyphen should be either a spaced en dash (–) or an unspaced em dash (—)]. Not in the GA criteria, but an easy fix all the same. Second, I don't think that comma should be present since it's not a compound sentence (the second half after the conjunction can't stand alone as a proper sentence because it doesn't have a subject).
  • The external link to http://www.cordoganclark.com/ doesn't belong in the middle of the prose. It's not even needed for the External links section. It belongs in an article about the firm, which would be wikilinked to this article.
  • "new buildings large expanses of glass" should have an appostrophe after the "s" in buildings... the buildings own the expanses of glass.
  • " 25 year lease" should be hyphenated as, "25-year lease".
  • "This investigation, reported on 30 December 2005, ..." please switch the date format to US standard, or "December 30, 2005, ..."
  • We need some consistency in the name of the political fundraiser. The first mention, which probably should be dropped for clarity since it appears in parentheses after the former governor's name, uses "Antoin" as his first name. The next time he's mentioned, it's just "Tony". In addition, both are linked. While changing this series of sentences, please update the fact that Blagojovich isn't the governor anymore.
  • There's some over-citation in the next paragraph since footnote 14 is repeated for five consecutive sentences, none of which are really controversial enough to warrant individual citation under WP:BLP. Can we drop all but the last one?
  • "six story factory building" should be "six-story factory building"... another compound adjective involving a number.
  • "The seven oases are spread along the Tollway, ..." The are not on a single tollway, rather on the tollway system. Since that's not a proper noun, it should not be capitalized.
  • "east-west" should have an en dash (–) not a hyphen, which does change the meaning.
  • "The only Tollway that does not ..." again, tollway on its own is not a proper noun and should not be capitalized.
Sourcing issues
  • Footnote 13 is a self-published source that does not meet the policy exception. It needs to be replaced.
  • Footnote 22 is a message board posting. It needs to be replaced.
  • Citation for "Now,the covenience stores on the Illinois Tollway are operated by 7 Eleven". While we're add it, clean up the formatting for that, and specify as of when the change was made.
  • There's an external link to IMDb for the Blue Brothers factoid. IMDb is not a reliable source, because it contains reader-submitted information.

I already cleaned up the references to make them consistent with each other in terms of formatting and content. All of the Daily Herald articles have dead links now though. As a result, I could not add the title of the August 15, 2009 by Joseph Ryan and John Patterson. It would be nice if someone could find that title, and maybe archived versions of the articles. Imzadi 1979 → 00:12, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Since only one of the comments above was addressed, and then only partially, I'm sadly delisting the article. Imzadi 1979 → 20:45, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Des Plaines Oasis[edit]

Is the Des Plaines Oasis truly closed? Reading the press release, it sounds like the overpass and restaurants are closed, but the 7-11 and gas station remain. The Trib article calls out this detail and adds a "for the time being" caution on it. This may need resolution of what the oasis consists of: is it the overpass portion and the rest is support or is any toll-free stop along the tollway an oasis?

User:Iowajason — Preceding undated comment added 19:32, 21 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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