Talk:Japanese language education in Russia

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Accurate Dates?[edit]

This article opens by mentioning the Japanese castaway Dembei, and asserting the dates of 1701 or 1702 - However, the article on Dembei himself asserts the dates "1601 or 1602". Which is correct? - Tenmiles 01:52, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's 1701/1702 for sure. Vladimir Atlasov was not yet born to drag him back to Moscow in 1601, the sakoku policy hadn't yet been implemented at that time, etc. See Lensen, "The Russian Push Toward Japan: Russo-Japanese Relations, 1697-1895" (cited at end). Some anon just vandalised the page to say 1601/1602, so I reverted him. cab 02:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Soviet Era - not a neutral point of view[edit]

Not neutral at all. It is just ideological propaganda for the most part.

  1. There was in the Soviet Union a great surge of interest to study of foreign languages and literature (in particular Japanise). The interest was determined not only by scentific effort but at least by political and military aims. There was special istitutes (МИВ, ИВАН, ИВЯ etc.), eminent scholars (N.I. Konrad, D.M. Pozdneev, O.V. Pletner and others), studies (universities' programmes, etc.), a huge amount of works, editions, journals etc. and so on. There was a great personal interest to Japanese culture among soviet people. Where is just a hint on that?
  2. The Great Purge is just one period of soviet history about 10 years length (actually only 1937-1938). 10 to more then 70 years! Why you made such accent on it? This article (I think) was created for purpose not about reveal "horrors of communism" or something, wasn't it?
  3. The Great Purge was a campaign against political opponents, mainly communists. You claim that "many Russians with overseas contacts or knowledge of foreign languages" had suffered "during this period" and as arguments you use the cases of notable scholars Y. Polivanov and N. Nevskii and at least one of them (Yevgeny Polivanov) was communist and soviet activist (since 1917), other was a famous translator (and he, actually, wasn't killed as you claim; he was arrested in 1937 and officially died in 1945 cause of heart failure). And, moreover, you cite here such unsubstantiated sources (paper articles). Where's the logic? Those scholars was "imprisoned, and even executed" because of "knowledge of foreign languages" or may be just because of their political views and actions?
  4. Do you really belive in such grotesque? "Japanese language education suffered a severe setback during the Great Purge, when many Russians with overseas contacts or knowledge of foreign languages were stripped of their jobs, imprisoned, and even executed, on suspicions of espionage." What the source? That is a cheap popular opinion (TV 2 Philistines) and such method are inadmissibe in sci papers.
  5. "...and even fewer of those became teachers, due to the low salaries". What do you know about teachers' salaries in Soviet Union or about soviet solaries range or about soviet living standards? In SU's time there was no dictate of salaries, salary is far from being sole or dominant incentive for soviet people, everyone had an opportunity to get work by own interest. Probably highest salaries was paid to miners and scientists (not because of exceptional demand on them, but because of it hard to be or to become such one). Your remark about salaries is just unjustified transfer your own conditions of living to essentially different social order. There is no point.

About credible history of study of Japanese language, literature and so on in SU you can read, for example, in the book of Igor A. Latishev: Латышев И.А. Япония, японцы и японоведы. М.: Алгоритм, 2001. - 832 с. ISBN 5-9265-0025-7. The structured information is also in the Big Soviet Encyclopedia.--Piyavkin (talk) 18:41, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  1. This article existing is a big hint there is significant interest in SU for Japanese
  2. Because the Great Purge was a great setback for SU culture. Yevgeny Polivanov was sentenced to death, that is significant. Though it appears because fell out of favor with the government before the purge.
  3. I agree, that is a very strong statement without a reference. Removed.
  4. Removed.
  5. The source is sufficient to support "low salary" point. If someone can add better references, great.
I've addressed the objections, I'll remove the POV tag now. - RoyBoy 03:13, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As this is the encyclopedia anyone can edit, feel free to rewrite whatever part, as long as you can cite proper sources. We encourage contributions from well-read people. But while you're at it, how about reading up on our policy of assuming good faith? This article is just part of an incomplete series, which includes Japanese language education in the United States, Japanese language education in Kazakhstan, and a work-in-progress, Japanese language education in Mongolia, which all have their deficiencies and areas for improvement (the US article, for example doesn't cover the post-WWII period much). It's going to raise your blood pressure very quickly if you run around Wikipedia on the mistaken belief that every stub text you don't like was written explicitly to insult you or your country. cab (talk) 00:15, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you take it personally, I apologize. I didn't rewrite it because of two reasons:
  • I think my English not so good (probably I make some grammatical and stylistic mistakes yet);
  • I'm assuming that somebody (e.g. you) has not only the good faith but also a good English and cans help.
And besides I have no whole picture of this matter. I can say that current version is not good (and point on that to you), but so as to write good one it is necessary to go to library, to do a little study and to write a brief essay (because subject matter is big). Or just ask somebody who have the whole picture to do that. Or else what for is encyclopedia?--Piyavkin (talk) 16:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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