Talk:Jovan Vraniškovski

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untitled comment #1[edit]

He was born on 28th of February 1966 in Bitola and baptized as an Orthodox Christian named Zoran. He completed his primary school and mathematical high school in his native town achieving excellent average result. During his education, he was awarded for achievements in the field of science and sports several times. After he served his military obligation in Sarajevo in 1985, he started his studies at the Faculty of Civil Engineering in Skopje. He had finished the aforesaid Faculty before the time expected (in 1990), and enrolled the Faculty of Theology in Belgrade the same year, and he also got employed as a civil engineer with the Diocese of the Metropolis of Bitola. He established the Metropolis Library in collaboration with the local University Library of Bitola, being the first librarian thereof. He had given a cycle of lectures in the premises of the library during his two and a half years long employment with the Metropolis. In 1993, he left for Belgrade aiming to intensify his studies of theology and graduated in June, 1995. He started his master’s studies the same year in Belgrade, at the Department of Systematic Theology (Dogmatics). At the end of 1995, he left for Greece (Thessalonica) for the purpose of learning Greek and enrolment of post graduate studies. Now, he works on his doctoral dissertation, theme being: "The Unity of the Church and the Contemporary Ecclesiological Problems”.

He was ordained to be a monk on 7th of February 1998, being named John and ordained a deacon the same day. He was ordained into the rank of hieromonk on 8th of February 1998, and into the rank of a Bishop on 19th July 1998, being given the title Bishop of Dremvitza. He was assigned to be a vicar of the Bishop of Prespa and Pelagonia, also holding cycles of theological discussions and starting a thorough reconstruction of the Cathedral Church of St. Great Martyr Demetrius in Bitola besides his regular ministries. In March 2000, he was assigned to be Administrator of the Metropolis of Bregalnitza, and elected to be a Bishop of Veles and Vardar Valley in November 2000. He was enthroned at the aforesaid Bishopric on 4th December 2000. He had answered positively at the summon to liturgical and canonical unity with the Patriarchate of Pec by the Patriarch of Serbia Paul, together with all his clergymen and faithful people from his Metropolis, being the only Metropolitan of the schismatic Macedonian Orthodox Church who answered positively. The liturgical and canonical unity with the Patriarchate of Pec of the Holy MetropolVardar Valley, being under his jurisdiction in that time, was reached on 22nd June 2002. Se, he was expelled from the seat of the Metropolis together with the monastics living withletely illegally and without a court warrant by means of brutal force by the Police of the of September 2002, he was appointed an Exarch of all the territories of the Orthodox Ohrid Arcc by the Assembly of the Serbian Orthodox Church. He had been detained under custody manyy the authorities of the Republic of Macedonia, which in fact created the schism of the Churchg the times of communist rule, supporting the putsch of proclamation of the uncannonical autocethe Macedonian Orthodox Church. He was elected a Chairman of the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orrid Archbishopric on 25th December 2003, after the constitution thereof. He was sentenced to a suspended punishment one year of imprisonment for the criminal offence «performing unauthorise activities» because he had entered a Church aiming to baptise a female infant in 2004. Thurt of Appeal in Bitola sentenced him to eighteen months of imprisonment in 2005 with valigement for a criminal offence «incitement of ethnic and religious hatred, discord and intoleranc He participated in many international symposiums and gave lectures on numerous s On 24th May 2005, on the Feast of the Ss. CyriMethodius, he has been confirmed by his Holiness, the Archbishop of Pec and Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovtzy and Patriarch of Serbia, kyr kyr Paul, to be Archbishop of Ohrid and politan of Skopje in accordance with the Nis Agreement. On the same day, there was an announcement of the Patriarchal and the Assembly’s Tomos for Autonomy of the Orthodox Ohrid Archbishopric, the Chairman of whose Holy Synod of Bishops is he, himself.

He heads the ONLY Canonically recognized Orthodox Church

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.134.248.122 (talk • contribs) 20:22, 17 April 2006 {UTC

untitled comment #2[edit]

His name should be Vranishkovski with an h if I am not mistaken. Blahblah5555 (talk) 21:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Civil Name[edit]

Zoran Vraniškovski → Jovan Vraniškovski — Jovan is his civil name in all official documents, here are just a few examples Document from the Court of R. Macedonia, Document from the European Court of Human Rights, US State Dept. 2008 Human Rights Report on Macedonia. Referring to him as Zoran is not only incorrect, but has most often the sole purpose to discredit him. Kpant (talk) 22:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He is born as Zoran Vraniškovski and he changed his name as Jovan when he was tonsured a monk. So if we use his secular Vraniškovski, we should use also the name he was baptized with - Zoran. If we use his clerical title for a title of the page (Archbishop Jovan), we should use the name he accepted after he was tonsured a monk and given a new name - Jovan. This Jovan Vraniškovski is a strange mixture between clerical and secular name (I understand Jovan is official now).--Алиса Селезньова (talk) 19:06, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The page has been moved in accordance with the Wikipedia standards for articles about higher clergy, as in these examples: Pope Benedict XVI, Patriarch Pavle of Serbia, Patriarch Theophilos III of Jerusalem, Ignatius IV of Antioch, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople, Patriarch Ilia II of Georgia, Patriarch Maxim of Bulgaria, Patriarch Daniel of Romania, Archbishop Chrysostomos II of Cyprus, Archbishop Ieronymos II of Athens, Archbishop Anastasios of Albania. Kpant (talk) 22:32, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Amnesty International declared Jovan Vraniskovski a "Prisoner of Conscience"[edit]

Amnesty International declared Jovan Vraniskovskia prisoner of conscienceAmnesty International sees Jovan Vraniskovski a prisoner of conscience.

User:Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise tries not for the first time to remove that fact from the article, under the excuse of "Neutrality".

Kpant (talk) 17:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Pushing the Macedonian POV[edit]

User:Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise tends to promote his/hers point of view as the only "Neutral", without providing any arguments or evidence for the claims he/she states. A few examples:

  • Changed the name of the prelate (and this article) to Zoran (instead of Jovan), although every published official state documentation proves that his name is Jovan.
  • Attempts to nullify the fact that Jovan was declared a prisoner of conscience by Amnesty International
  • States that Archbishop Jovan "decided to... enter in agreement with the Serbian church on his own account" although the very reference (he/she did not remove) clearly shows the signatures of all priests that agreed to the same, so it was far from on his own account.
  • Tries to negate the fact that the Orthodox Ohrid Archbishopric is the only canonical orthodox church in R. Macedonia, which is a fact acknowledged not only by all canonical orthodox churches, but on this Wikipedia too. If that is not WP:COATRACK I don't know what is.
  • Twists the facts and statements at his/hers own will. One trivial example: changed the verdict statement from Instigation of ethnic, racial and religious hatred, discord and intolerance to inciting national, racial and religious hatred, schism and intolerance. Here's the actual verdict so see for yourselves... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kpant (talk • contribs) 18:00, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Simply deletes any fact that he/she dislikes without any explanation

He/she fails to reasonably answer, argument and discuss the issues he/she finds biased, but prefers to only label instead.

Kpant (talk) 17:39, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ecclesiology[edit]

The canonical status of a church is represented not by its relation to the Macedonian Orthodox Church, which is itself not recognized by any other orthodox church, but with its relation to the unity of the other canonical churches worldwide, represented through the full communion with them.

Therefore insisting on description of the status of the Orthodox Ohrid Archbishopric in relation to the MOC is tendentious and not objective.

Kpant (talk) 18:24, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some more incorrect statements by Future Perfect...[edit]

  1. Future Perfect wrote: With the "Niš Agreement" signed in 2002, the Macedonian church was to be integrated as an autonomous eparchy under the authority of the Serbian archbishopric of Peć
    1. the MOC was to be integrated as an autonomous church, not eparchy (see the actual document)
    2. what does autonomous eparchy mean, anyway?
    3. there is no archbishopric of Peć, that is Patriarchate of Peć, why does he/she try to lower the rank?
  2. He/she also wrote: On 23 September 2002, the Serbian Orthodox Church appointed him Exarch of the Archbishopric of Ohrid, claiming the title of the bishopric that was held in parallel by the Archbishop of Ohrid and Macedonia of the established Macedonian Orthodox Church.
    1. well, you decide: did they appoint him an Exarch or an Archbishop?
    2. false statement - claiming the title of the bishopric that was held in parallel... (see above)
    3. does Future Perfect understand what he/she writes? Does he/she know what is the meaning of Exarch? Obviously not, since he/she wrote that someone could be an Exarch of himself...
    4. what do you mean established Macedonian Orthodox Church? Is that objective to say, when it is not recognized by any other orthodox church? How is it established?
  3. Yes, there is more...: Yet another trial for a new charge of embezzlement is in progress as of 2009.
    1. that trial has been in progress already several years, why did Future Perfect remove the sentence that says that it is the third time this trial begins, after Jovan was two times found not guilty? I guess that is his/hers idea of "NPOV"...

Kpant (talk) 19:16, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Look, all I did was to quickly rewrite the unreadable tendentious writing I saw, without having much time to go through the references. I don't know much about the topic in particular, nor about the Orthodox church in general. If there are factual mistakes, please correct them. The problem with your text was it was so tendentious in its wording, and at the same time so poorly written and structured, it could impossible be left as it was. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You reverted all my changes again and additionally did some more mess with your 'facts'.
  1. You admit that you don't know much about the topic.
  2. You admit you don't know much about the Orthodox Church in general.
  3. You don't discuss the issues I pointed out as disputable, nor you provide arguments and evidence to support your writings.
But you still insist on your version of the article? And that is supposed to be "Neutral"?
Kpant (talk) 11:04, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Third Opinion[edit]

OK, calm down - it looks as if both of you have removed references in your edits. Might I suggest that you go to Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal for help via informal mediation. Jezhotwells (talk) 18:14, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please point out a single reference I removed. Kpant (talk) 22:02, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I have no time for mediation with tendentious single-purpose accounts who have evidently no interest in creating neutral coverage. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:19, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I am new to wikipedia, and it's rather early to say whether my account is single-purpose. Had you been less aggressive I would have had the time to contribute more. I do tend to write on subjects that are of my interest and which I have a good knowledge of, as for me it is embarrassing to write about something I am not very familiar with. As for the neutrality - let the arguments speak for themselves. Kpant (talk) 19:02, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Archbishop Iakovos of America which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 05:45, 3 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Name[edit]

Gbooks has "Jovan Vraniškovski" (22) and "Jovan VI of Ohrid" (0).--Zoupan 00:10, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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