Talk:Last Rights (album)

Release date

I've always been confused by the stated release date for Last Rights. Why would it be released June 30, 1992 when it peaked on the Billboard charts in April 1992? Anyway, I decided to double check AllMusic and noticed that they now give the release date as March 16, 1992. Also, I browsing the Wayback Machine and found this link which also indicates a March (24th) release: https://archive.org/details/Bullet-Fredericksburg_VA_vol-65_1992-03-31/page/n5?q=skinny+puppy. Apple gives the release date as March 15, 1992. Whatever the actually day of release was, I think we can say that the album definitely came out in March, not June. NoseyMoose (talk) 22:51, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

@NoseyMoose: Good detective work! Thanks for finding this. When I rewrote this article, I didn't even pay attention to the release date. Whoops! CelestialWeevil ^(talk) 23:06, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Live images

Two live images are currently in question, as per NFCC 8 seen here. I'll quote it for convnenience: "8. Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding." The images illustrate the violent on-stage theatrics of the band, specifically in relation to the themes of the album (violence, deformity, and so on). Seeing it does "significiantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic", and the omission would be a shame; text sources don't adequately detail what these shows looked like. @Hullaballoo Wolfowitz: ping to relevant user. Thanks. CelestialWeevil ^(talk) 17:48, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

First, the images are used in an article about an album, not about the tour or the band generally. Second, there is no critical commentary regarding the images, only very general descriptive comments not requiring illustration. Third, as the OP notes in a recent edit summary, "The theatrics of the band are important to understanding is aesthetic and message, and sources don't cover it" -- which means the underlying claim is original research, and doesn't belong in the article at all, and therefore can't justify the use of nonfree images. Fourth, the use rationales describe the photos as images of Justin Timberlake and Beyonce, and are apparently cut-and-pasted without regard to their applicability in this article. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. (talk) 18:18, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

@Hullaballoo Wolfowitz: Thanks for your concern. I sense some strange hostility. I guess I'll address your points in order. First, the tour for the album is based on the album's themes and aesthetics; they're inextricably tied. Second, there is some commentary, but I can add more pretty easily. Third, please don't play "gotcha"; I know what original research is, and this isn't that. The good-faith assumption of what I said is that the sources don't adequately cover what the images cover; this fulfills number 8, meaning the points are damaged without visual additions. Fourth, this is easily fixed. CelestialWeevil ^(talk) 18:23, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Last Rights (album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cartoon network freak (talk · contribs) 09:05, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Lead

• weight as well as moments of uncharacteristic softness → no need for "moments" a second time
• and threatened litigation from without → this sounds too complicated and I think readers might fail to understand that
• by Skinny Puppy's last tour for twelve years → shouldn't it be "...in twelve years"?
• and "Left Handshake" distributed under the title "Track 10", and was the band's first release to chart on the Billboard 200 → This wording is a bit confusing. Replace with: "and "Left Handhshake", with the latter distributed under the title of "Track 10". Last Rights was the band's..."

Infobox

• The "Studio" parametre isn't sourced in the article's body and should be thus removed

Bakckgronund and production

• much of the friendliness was gone when it came time to work on → I would rather say: "their relationship worsened when it came to work on"
• Ogre conceived of and recorded all of his lyrics → no need for the two "of"s
• on noisy and complicated songs → on noisy and complex songs
• Picture > The reference does not explicitly state that this was one of the recording places for THIS album.

Composition and content

• Often described as Skinny Puppy's darkest work,[27][18] → References not in numerical order
• and even has some dance aspects → alongside some dance aspects
• no lyrics were printed on the liner notes.[12][7] → refs not in numerical order
• but never saw individual release.[35][24] → same as above
• electric guitar buried beneath the distorted drums and shrieked vocals → "buried" seems to be off in this context
• "chaos" should be in quotes since it's what the reviewer says; without them, this sounds very unencyclopedic
• called "Riverz End" pretty but compared it to a foul pool spiked with needles and rusted junk in the same breath → you either need to change the wording to make this more encyclopedic or use more quotes

Outcome

Hi there again! I reviewed two sections above, which are wonderfully written and only showed some minor mistakes, as does the rest of the article. However, my main concern is that the article is largely based on unreliable sources, and this is a major problem to me since it completely disregards point 2 of the Good Article criteria, being "verifiable". Here is a list of, at least in my opinion, unreliable references the article relies on:

1. Reference no. 11 is a Facebook source and it doesn't say anything about the recording sessions of Last Rights specifically
2. Is "Litany.net" a reliable source for all those archives of interviews and articles regarding the band? It seems like it is managed by a fan, but maybe I'm wrong
3. Reference no. 20 is most presumably unreliable and shows a listing of samples used by the band, compiled by a man named "Peter Cigéhn"; he does not seem to be any music critic or expert after a quick research
4. Reference no. 24, again unreliable — the band's music catalogue put together by an editor which describes himself as "I grew up in Bahrain then moved to Cheltenham, England where I finished my A-Levels at Cheltenhham College. At University at Buffalo, I studied Philosophy and Computer Science, and then moved to Chicago [...] One of my true passions is travel" here
5. Reference no. 39 is dead, but is a Facebook source
6. Reference no.42 is dead as well, but the publisher also doesn't seem to be that reliable

• • — I'm very sorry to fail such a wonderfully written article, but it just relies too much on unreliable sources, and their removal would mean a major trimdown of the content. This is turn would not count for me as "minor improvement" in order to put this on hold. I hope you can do something to fix those issues and renominate eventually. Greetings; Cartoon network freak (talk) 18:50, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.