Talk:Latin mnemonics

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Latin mnemonics was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
December 17, 2007	Articles for deletion	Kept
January 16, 2008	Good article nominee	Not listed

Current status: Former good article nominee

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additional suggested mnemonics[edit]

someone should incorporate the following into this article:

after si, nisi, num, and ne, all the ali's go away. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.213.247.161 (talk) 11:03, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Someone should not until you can point to a book or an article where that rhyme has been properly written down and discussed. There's no evidence that that rhyme has been printed in any Latin textbook anywhere. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard (talk) 17:42, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There's another one that's been bugging me that I can't really remember, only that one line goes something, something, something...glis. And that's all I can remember, it's about 20-30 nouns, I guess it's the irregular third declension ones or something.FlagSteward (talk) 21:22, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:LEAD[edit]

I tagged this article with {{tooshort}} template. The lead should be capable of standing alone as a concise overview of the article and summarizing the most important points, per WP:LEAD. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:08, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA review[edit]

I've signed up to review this, but put it on hold until the lead section issue is addressed. I'll be away from Sunday to tuesday, so no rush. Details comments probably then Jimfbleak (talk) 15:40, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've expanded the lead. I think it is the appropriate length for the article. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 16:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article nomination[edit]

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Although the article is basically pretty good, there are some issues that need to be fixed

Needs careful copyediting eg opening sentence switches from it to they at random, also Similar mnemonics are the rosa mnemonic, and what does this sentence mean; Although some, such as those by Petrus Helias and Paolo da Camaldoli, contain mnemonic verses.? It looks like a stray clause to me.
Good prose issues; minor - verse form. is repeated in consecutive sentences, can't it be varied? Major - repeating the whole Malo poem is dreadful prose, leave the example to the example section.
MoS: Wikipedia prefers italics for phrases in other languages and for isolated foreign words that do not yet have common usage in English. Not applied (or ignored) consistently
wp lead - Last sentence of lead is three unconnected ideas and very clunky - better to leave it out. Need instead to mention classical author's use - it's a whole section not mentioned in intro
I'd be inclined to incorporate the footnote material in the text - it's not overlong as it stands
(not a pass/fail issue) Is there any possibility of an image to adorn the article, eg a picture of a Latin primer or relevant page - there must be out-of copyright books on the web?

Jimfbleak (talk) 07:24, 9 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to use page 41 of Raphael Kühner's Latin Grammar with Exercises (1851. Boston: Phillips, Sampson, & Co.), not least because in addition to the three mnemonic verses therein it provides an excuse to link the image caption to plural of virus. Unfortunately, I don't own a copy of that particular grammar and so cannot digitize it myself, and the digitized page at Google Books has a Google watermark, which may or may not be a problem. I'm not sure that the copyrights, on the books with these mnemonics in that I do own copies of, have actually expired yet. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard (talk) 17:53, 12 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The hold expires on 16, I'll do the review then. I fixed a couple of things myself, but points 4 & 5 still need addressing, particularly the former. The image surely must be out of copyright if the book is 1851? Jimfbleak (talk) 07:01, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - Point #5 appears to be just your personal preference. It would spoil the flow of the text with parenthetical material that fits better in a footnote, which is of course the reason that I put it into a footnote in the first place. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard (talk) 00:50, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think the translation of the malo poem is diabolical, with three lines rhyming and one that doesn't. Since it's supposed to be poetry, I would change "boy" to "me" to make it rhyme in all four lines. BudgieJane (talk) 10:31, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article nomination[edit]

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

I thought that this article would sail through with a minimum of improvement, but the hold has expired, and despite fixing some of the problems myself, there are still unaddressed MoS issues with respect to the lead and representation of foreign words. I look forward to this reappearing at GA, but I won’t do the next review. Jimfbleak (talk) 06:49, 16 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dependent dative[edit]

My Latin teacher (in the 1960s) told us that the dependent dative was used with adjectives meaning "kind, friendly, dear, pleasing, hostile, near," which, because of the rhyme, had a mnemonic effect for me. Does anyone have a source for this? Someone at William & Mary College uses this exact list in a "Wheelock" cheatsheet, but my edition of Wheelock discusses only the concept, but not the list. BTW, it should be noted that the list in English is not really comprehensive: e.g., the English equivalent of similis is not included. Peter Chastain (talk) 18:30, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The "someone" at W&M College is a professor G.L. Irby. I have e-mailed Dr. Irby to ask about a source. Peter Chastain (talk) 19:26, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

maio malo malo malo[edit]

Correct: "Māio: I would rather be, Mālo: In an apple tree, Mălo: Than a naughty boy, Mălo: In adversity." - In ancient Rome, i and l were often expressed using the same character. Therefore, malo and maio used to be indistinguishable, where only coming in writing. In times before wikipedia. Where i and l are never expressed using the same character. --91.11.228.142 (talk) 15:40, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]