Talk:Li Fu Lee

A fact from Li Fu Lee appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 April 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Li Fu Lee (pictured), the first Chinese woman to attend MIT, studied electrical engineering, which—according to The Boston Globe—its undergraduates at the time said was its hardest major?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Li Fu Lee.

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 00:24, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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Lee at MIT's radio experiment station, 1925

... that the first Chinese woman to attend MIT, Li Fu Lee, (pictured) studied electrical engineering, which was considered as MIT's most difficult major at the time? Source: China Comes to MIT
- Reviewed:
- Comment: The image is being restored by Adam Cuerden, who did a lot of restorations for featured pictures. Thus I highly recommend using the image.

Created by FunnyMath (talk). Self-nominated at 19:13, 18 March 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Li Fu Lee; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

Oh by the way, this is my first DYK nomination, so no need for QPQ. FunnyMath (talk) 19:27, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting:
Other problems: - "MIT" should be wikilinked to Massachusetts Institute of Technology in the hook. Hook is interesting but needs some frame of reference as to which source determined electrical engineering was the most difficult major at the time.

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: QPQ not needed as this is the first nomination. Picture is good. It was mentioned in the hook that electrical engineering was considered the most difficult major at the time. "At the time" should be mentioned in the article itself, as well as which source stated it was the most difficult. lullabying (talk) 22:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Lullabying: I made the relevant changes in the lead and the "Biography" section of the article. As for the hook, I'd change it to this:

... that the first Chinese woman to attend MIT, Li Fu Lee, (pictured) studied electrical engineering, which the undergraduates at the time said was the hardest major according to The Boston Globe? Source: China Comes to MIT

And thank you for reviewing the article! FunnyMath (talk) 03:39, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Are we allowed to use two sources instead of one? The China Comes to MIT link doesn't have the quote that supports the phrase "the undergraduates at the time said was the hardest major". The phrase is supported here: Boston Evening Globe FunnyMath (talk) 04:08, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take another look. I've used two sources before for DYK and I don't see a problem using more than one. lullabying (talk) 01:57, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Quick aside: The restoration is now finished, unless I spot something) Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 8.2% of all FPs. Currently celebrating his 600^th FP!} 21:22, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I'm going through the article. The line "Lee's attendance at MIT was sensational" needs a point of reference because this seems like WP:FLOWERY. Hook seems good now. lullabying (talk) 05:34, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I used the word "sensational" because the China Comes to MIT source says "Lee's arrival at MIT in 1925 caused such a sensation that it was reported in the Boston newspapers ...". You're right that it's puffery. I think saying something like "Lee's attendance was reported by numerous media outlets" would be better. FunnyMath (talk) 18:33, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the "sensational" description and replaced it with what I proposed above. FunnyMath (talk) 18:36, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Seems good. lullabying (talk) 03:44, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome! Thank you again for reviewing the article. FunnyMath (talk) 16:32, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Adam Cuerden and FunnyMath: The photo is compelling, and I agree in principle it would make a nice picture hook, but I am wondering if you would be willing to offer an expert crop for the purposes of a DYK main page thumbnail only. The full image will still reside on the article page when people click, but in the meantime the thumbnail could be a bit clearer, perhaps focusing on her face with the radio equipment still visible in the background, per magic squares and/or rectangular rabatment, etc. You might also consider adjusting the contrast a bit. We actually do have DYK team members who regularly crop and adjust images like this, but since this one appears to have gone through painstaking restoration, I thought maybe we should ask Adam first. Cielquiparle (talk) 11:04, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think a crop could work. A cropped version was published in February 1926 in Popular Science Monthly: [1] FunnyMath (talk) 14:26, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lee at MIT's radio experiment station, 1925 (square crop)

@Cielquiparle and FunnyMath: How's File:Li Fu Lee at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's radio experiment station, 1925 (MIT Museum) - Restoration (square crop).jpg? I think square is preferred for the main page. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 8.2% of all FPs. Currently celebrating his 600^th FP!} 03:46, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support That actually looks pretty good. I thought a rectangular landscape crop would be better, but the square one works just as well if not better. FunnyMath (talk) 05:20, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Li Fu Lee, Kuan Tung, and their family in China.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:23, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is she still alive?? What gives? Poor reflection on Wiki that this info is not included! No excuses espexially since the article was linked to the front page. Do better! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.180.8.203 (talk) 08:03, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

119 years old?[edit]

The article implies she's still alive at 119 years old, being born in 1904, which is rather strange - it would make her second oldest person in the world (although it says little is known about Lee's career after 1920s). According to this 2023 source, she's also alive. Should we put "death date unknown" in the lead, with Category:Year of death unknown? Brandmeister^talk 10:03, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I have tracked down a death date in the 1980s at Chicago for her, but it is WP:OR so I don't believe it can be included. Connormah (talk) 21:31, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Could you please show us the source where you found a death date? If it is recorded it shouldn't OR. Andro611 (talk) 22:03, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

From the note that one of the photos in one of the references was provided by Ami Kuan Danoff, I was able to find out through family obituaries that she is a granddaughter. Another child's obituary places her in Chicago, Illinois in 1978. Her husband died 1993 and it appears she likely died in 1985 and rests next to him in Chicago (though the birth year on the marker appears to be off). Also, there appears to have been no obituary published (at least in papers available online). Connormah (talk) 23:33, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the find. I'm going to include it, it's silly to have such detailed early life info and yet no death date even though she never disappeared nor hid away. After 119 years it doesn't fall under BLP anymore. Andro611 (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The plaque for Kuan Tung gives his birth date as 1903 instead of 1902 as well. I think the China Comes to MIT website is more reliable, so it's likely that the birth dates on the plaques are incorrect. We do have a template for citing plaques: Template:Cite sign, so I think we can cite the plaque for Lee for now until more reliable sources become available. FunnyMath (talk) 04:49, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, @Brandmeister and Andro611: thank you both for your help. I really appreciate it. I tried to find the death date for her when I wrote the article. I even contacted the email address given at the China Comes to MIT website and even they don't know. FunnyMath (talk) 04:52, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Connormah: Thank you as well. FunnyMath (talk) 04:56, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]