Talk:Linothorax

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Comments[edit]

I'd like to note--as others below have done-that the term linothorax occurs about 4 times is all of Greek literature,and that the recreation of the 'linothorax' has a historiography of its own dating to Peter Connelly in 1972. White it is a 'good idea' there's no evidence at all that glued up layers of linen were used as armour and a lot of evidence to suggest they were not. The two figures in the illustration--the 'Patrokles vase' are clearly wearing scale armour which may or may not have a linen substrate but more likely had a leather one--all the finds from Bulgaria and the Ukraine indicate a leather base for the scale. The one solid literary referral to a 'thorax of new linen' occurs in Alcaeus frag 140 (Scholars at Dinner of Athenaeus)and dates from 540 BCE or earlier. To me, this whole article states as fact an 'idea' or 'hypothesis' that is very unproven and does not, itself, speak to the current literature on the subject and should be removed.--Φωκίων (talk) 18:26, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I read the section on the bottom about the Linothorax Project and contest that it reads like an advertisement for these authors/people without presenting useful information as I expect an encyclopedia/wiki to do. Specifically, the paragraph mentions that they 'presented data' or a paper, yet there is no link or citation to this original article/paper. There is no citation because there is no source, there is no source because it hasn't been published. Please remove the advertisement nature of this paragraph — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.202.68.49 (talk) 22:26, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, to whoever added content to linothorax article, I edited a bit of your content to bring in some of the other theories floating around. J.

I have added 'See Also' and 'External links', changed 'How to build?' to 'Construction', and deleted the section called 'Nowertimes' (which isn't a word!) because of poor grammar and it is mostly repetition of the 'Construction' section. --Rufusw 14:17, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Major re-edit done 18 may 2007 links from external pages added. J.

chain mail changed to scale armour (chain mail unknown at this time) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.182.48.55 (talk) 12:54, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There´s a contradiction at the beginning of the article: at first, it is said that the linothorax was in use during the Mycenean period (without citation however), then it is stated that the oldest description is to be found in Homer, therefore at a much later date. --Mike F2 (talk) 15:31, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I added a quick citation to a recent journal article which explains the history of the glue theory. Currently this page relies on the book and press releases by the researchers in Wisconsin rather than having a neutral point of view. Other researchers tend to be cautious about how this armour was made and use phrases like "linen or leather cuirasses" or "composite corselets." Vagans2019 (talk) 04:21, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Vagans2019Thank you so much for this post! I have made similar comments in other areas referring to the so-called "linothorax". And you are quite right that there only are a tiny handful of references to the linothorax in ancient literature and almost none connecting them to any historical figures (including Alexander the Great). Connelly's work was very prejudicial in propagating the myth of the myth (compounding myths is never a good idea in science) of the linothorax. Persons posting to Wiki need to be more thorough in their writing practice and declare clearly when they are speaking from conjecture. I have been to Vergina, Greece, which is the site of Phillip II's tomb and associated museum. Phillip's main body armour is on display there. (https://www.hellenicarmors.gr/en/armor/philipps-thorax/) It is a VERY thick iron/steel curriasse. I'm not sure why so many researchers would jump on the idea of Alexander voluntarily downgrading his armour from his father's state-of-the-art iron to linen; possibly a misplaced sense of romanticism or a compulsion to connect sporadic text references to the fresco in Pompeii? Please people, lets be unbiased and methodical! This is science not fantasy writing! 142.117.88.72 (talk) 12:43, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Linothorax ≠ Lamellar Armor[edit]

In the History Channel's Last_Stand_of_the_300, the Armor worn by Athenian Hoplites was incorrectly referred to as Lamellar armour. --Arima (talk) 00:26, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Misconception of the Linothorax.[edit]

The public has been widely mislead by what the linothorax is, and it's bothering me a lot.

The linothorax has only ever been mentioned in a single context in ancient text, and this was by Homer. It is actually more like a military "apron" used for protection, rather than an actual cuirass/throax, and was around during the early Archaic/Heroic Period (which is when Homer was around too).

What everyone has been taught that is a linothorax, is actually the Spolas.

Right now, people believe that the Linothorax was used right through to the Hellenistic Era, and probably afterwards. This is ridiculous. It would have been a totally outdated piece of equipment by the time of the Persian Wars, making it obsolete to the Spolas (which is what everyone thinks the Linothorax is, which I mentioned above). It's like Julius Ceasar using a bronze sword, makes no sense.

Do I have permission to clear up this misconception? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Splenyi (talk • contribs) 14:45, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You might be right. Feel free to change the article. Or anyone else reading this. This article barely has any sources. Harizotoh9 (talk) 03:25, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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