Talk:Marino Ghetaldi

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Getaldić, not Ghetaldi[edit]

The name "Marin Getaldić" is ten times more frequent, just check Google. The article must have that name. Saying that the Italian version of the name should be used because his family supposedly arrived to Dubrovnik from Italy in the 8th century - seven centuries before he was born! - is simply ridiculous. The legendary origins can be mentioned, but nothing more. --Zmaj 17:22, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I request the change of the article name into Marin Getladić! --Anto 14:18, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The name of the article should be renamed into Marin Getaldić. He is one of the most respected Croatian scientists. Also name Marin Getaldić has the most results on Google search ( 18.600 ). -- Zelen-oko (talk • contribs) 20:39, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Name[edit]

"Marinus Ghetaldus" (389), contemporary name (Latin)
"Marino Ghetaldi" (313), contemporary name (Italian/Venetian)
"Marin Getaldić" (135), Croatian neologism
"Marin Ghetaldi" (98)

Gbook hits. 20th and 21st-century favours "Marino Ghetaldi".--Zoupan 11:18, 25 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Marin Getaldić" is not Croatian neologism, it is his contemporary name used in common speach. "Marinus Ghetaldus" is used in diplomacy and politics ( same as with all croats in all republics, states and kingdoms until 19th century ). Marino Getaldi is used in Italy.

Also Marin Getaldić has the most (18.900) results on Google search. Zelen-oko (talk) 01:51, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It is not his contemporary name used in common speech. Marinus Ghetaldus is the Latin version, contemporary, while Marin Getaldić is not contemporary, but a Croatian neologism. He used Marino Ghetaldi himself. The Google search hits are false. "Marin Getaldić" has 144, while "Marino Ghetaldi" has 173. We go by the above results, which are obviously in favour of the proper name, Marino Ghetaldi.--Zoupan 02:28, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, The Google search hits are not false. It is not like that everyone can not use search buton on Google.

Marin Getaldić has 25.100 results on Google search: Proof here: http://s17.postimg.org/bnnvx1ben/Screen_Shot_04_10_16_at_02_36_AM.png Marino Ghetaldi has 18.700. Proof here: http://s30.postimg.org/mkxfmoxfl/Screen_Shot_04_10_16_at_02_40_AM.png Marin Getaldić is his contemporary name used in Republic of Dubrovnik along with latin version. Italian version "Marino Ghetaldi" was given to him only in Italy, while working in Italy not in Republic of Dubrovnik. In his work he used latin version of his name. Soo Marino Ghetaldi is not proper name but Italian neologism.Zelen-oko (talk) 00:46, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 25 March 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved per request Mike Cline (talk) 12:57, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Marin Getaldić → Marino Ghetaldi – As per GBook hits presented in the above section. Zoupan 11:24, 25 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support. I get 243 post-2000 GBook results for the proposed title compared to 178 for the current one. There are also 73 results for "Marinus Ghetaldus." He was an ethnic Italian living in a community that was Italian at the time. We should not project today's politics backward in time and make him Croatian. Latin would seem like a nice compromise, but isn't on the table in this discussion. The initializer (talk) 01:55, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 22 March 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. There seems to be a lot of shouting and not much good faith going on in this discussion, but as far as I can see English usage is fairly split, and no consensus seen here, so it is not moved at this time. (non-admin closure) — Amakuru (talk) 09:58, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Marino Ghetaldi → Marin Getaldić – Marin Getaldić was not ethnic Italian. He never identified himself as Italian. Also people of Republic of Ragusa where Croats not Italians. Croats are present in Dubrovnik since 7th century. And there is many evidence of that. Among other things, all the documents from the time of the Dubrovnik Republic are still preserved in Dubrovnik. Latin was the official language of Dubrovnik in politics. Because Latin was offical language of Catholic church. And Croats are Christians Catholics. Latin was official language in whole Croatia not just Dubrovnik. In that time it was normal for nobles in whole Croatia to have latin versions of its name with their croat ( common ) name. Same was with Marin Getaldić.

Statement by Zoupan qoute:

He was an ethnic Italian living in a community that was Italian at the time. We should not project today's politics backward in time and make him Croatian

This statement above is offensive to the citizens of Dubrovnik and Croatia. Zoupan is the one who wants to rewrite History.

Marin Getaldić is his name and that name should be used. He was citizen of Dubrovnik and Dubrovnik is part of Croatia. Name Marino Ghetaldi was used only in Italy not in Republic of Ragusa. Marin Getaldić and latin version Marinus Ghetaldus where used in Republic of Ragusa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.143.6.174 (talk • contribs) 10:12, March 22, 2016‎

Oppose. Needs to be closed. The current article name is based on Wikipedia:Article titles. As for the IP's reason, it is a terribly faulty evaluation of the Republic of Ragusa. The above statement isn't mine. The blocked IP is now using a sock.--Zoupan 23:56, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support for the name change. No, article name must be changed in Marin Getaldić. That is a name he used in Republic of Ragusa. Marinus Ghetaldus was diplomatic name ( latin was language Republic of Ragusa used in diplomacy ). Marino Ghetaldi was used only by Italy.

We have same examples in modern times too. Croatia is english version of country name. But Hrvatska is the orginal name used by croats. Just because Croatia is used in english, does not mean that Hrvatska is actualy english country! Or that Hrvatska is not real name of the country. Marin Getaldić was croat. His father was croat Maro Marinov Jakova Getaldić, his mother was croat Anica Andrije Restić. His brothers was Andrija, Šimun, Martolic and Jakov and sister Nika. All croatian. Marin Getaldić never identified himself as Italian. Actualy Republic of Ragusa and Venice where enemies, at war. Also first croatian language grammer is wrriten in Dubrovnik by Bartol Kašić in 1604. Documents wrriten on croatian language from 12th and 13th century from Dubrovnik ( Ragusa ) still exist. They are kept in the Dubrovnik museums and archives. Soo statmets by Zoupan that Dubrovnik people are italians are just ridiculous. Show that he does not have any knowledge of the subject matter. Also if you use google search, Marin Getaldić has the most ( 18.900 ) results. As for the latin language. Latin language was official diplomatic and political language of all croats and in all croatian republics, states or kingdoms until 19th century, not just in Republic of Dubrovnik ( Ragusa ). Also first uses of the name Dubrovnik is from 1215. First use of the term Dubrovčani ( Dubrovnik people ) is from 1189. Even the most importan croatian king Tomislav ( king of the Kingdom of Croatia 925–1102 )had latin name Tamisclaus too. Zelen-oko (talk) 01:21, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You can't support the name change when it is you who requests the move. The article name must not be changed. His name was Marino Ghetaldi, as he spellt his name, evident in his works. There are no suggestions, whatsoever, that this person was (or identified himself as) ethnic Croat and signed himself Marin Getaldić. Don't lie. That name is an anachronism/neologism. I told you that the quote you assign to me, that Ragusan people are Italians, was not made by me. You seem to have less knowledge, disregarding the actual history of the Republic of Ragusa and synthesizing some kind of Croatness pillar that is false. The legacy of Ragusa in Croatian history and culture is unrefutable, but just stop it with the fantasy.--Zoupan 02:14, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 10 April 2016[edit]

He was ethnic croat, because his parents and whole familly ( brothers and sister ) were Croats. And they do not even have italian versions of their names ( fater Maro Marinov Jakova Getaldić, his mother was croat Anica Andrije Restić. His brothers was Andrija, Šimun, Martolic and Jakov and sister Nika ).

All informations about his familly and original documents from that period still exist in Dubrovnik. As for my knowledge about Republic of Dubrovnik, it is much greater than yours Zoupan. Considering that Dubrovnik is my home city. And I can trace my familly to 14th century Dubrovnik. We are talking about my home. Name of the article must be changed to Marin Getaldić and Marinus Ghetaldus. As for his work, he used latin version of his name in his work. Zelen-oko (talk) 04:10, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have some account that he used Croatian name? All his works he published under Italian/Latin name Ghetaldi.