Talk:Paul the Apostle and women

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  • The Section titled "Evidence in Paul's letters" has some significant errors and misrepresentations. First up, the link for Aquila (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquila_(Bible)) goes to the wrong page, returning an article on Aquila of Sinope - a different person entirely.
Fixed today. ─AFAprof01 (talk) 05:35, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The statement 'He praises Junia as a prominent apostle' cannot be adduced as evidence of apostleship when, on the same line it is acknowledged that 'It is still debated by scholars whether "prominent among the apostles" means Junia was one of the apostles, or only well known to the apostles'. It is likewise debated whether Junia was male or female, as the link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junia shows. These issues suggest Junia's claimed female apostleship don't satisfy even a 'balance of probabilities' test, let alone a 'beyond reasonable doubt' test. PS: the reference to Junia is from Romans 16:7.
  • Speaking of Phoebe, the article claims prostasis means "leader and president". It doesn't - prostasis means nothing more than a female patron - see http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/4368.htm. Thus the contention in the final paragraph that "These biblical reports seem to provide credible evidence of women apostles active in the earliest work of spreading the Christian message" is unsupported, despite what the authors in the referenced websites might claim. Active? yes. Deacons? yes. Workers? yes. Apostles? the evidence is lacking.
  • The whole of the section titled "Cooperation with female disciples" should be deleted (except perhaps the last paragraph), as it has nothing to do the subject: Paul of Tarsus and women.
  • The Section titled "Paul's words to Timothy" has a number of bracketed interpretations of what the expressions in the passages cited are said mean (eg [to God], [i.e., the bearing of Jesus Christ]). These interpretations are questionable, unattributed and should not appear in-line as if they were universally accepted translations or interpretations of the original.
  • In the same section, the unattributed blocked citation appears to come from http://www.godswordtowomen.org/lesson_40.htm. The subsequent unblocked paragraph, which again has an unconventional translation of 1 Tim. 2:11-15 appears to come from the same page and should be correctly blocked and cited.
  • The section using Paul's words on women, especially using 1 Timothy needs to be clarified as possibly Deutero-Pauline texts. Also the section on Phoebe could be further clarified. Who was she? What was the roles of female deacons in the first century period? Reading further down it discusses Paul not advocating women to be ordained to the priesthood, perhaps there also needs to be clarification about 'ordination' in the time of Paul.
  • I would be interested in adding some information about Paul and women and how they were involved in his ministry. Schussler Fiorenza, Wayne Meeks and recently T. Hammer have contributed to the area of the social and economic status of women in early Christianity particulary pertaining to Paul, his gospel and his ministry. Let me know if anyone is interested in this. CapHammer (talk) 02:58, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why do we think 'follower' is preferred over 'disciple'? We should also make sure it is clear that we mean followers/disciples of Jesus, not Paul. DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:50, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think that disciple is distinctive in the Greek as different from a casual follower. I'm open for further references. It is important to talk about these people as followers/disciples of Jesus, at the same time it would be accurate to identify the difference in Paul's Law-Free mission to the Gentiles as opposed to the mission to the Jews. Scholars have identified a distinct Pauline Christian movement in the 1st and 2nd century, so it's probably best to recognise it. What do you think? :) CapHammer (talk) 02:35, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article needs some historic context.[edit]

The excision of women from leadership positions in the early Christian church did not take place in a vacuum. On the contrary, women were highly active leaders in other religions.

See the priestesses of Delphi, Augustus, Jupiter, Apollo, Demeter, Diana, Juno, Innana, Ishtar and Ishtar. There were also active priestess traditions in Eurasia, and Persia. And don't forget the many many temples of Isis and Cybele scattered throughout the known world at the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.239.73 (talk) 21:24, 21 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

First two items after "Instructions for Timothy", the 2:8 and 2:11-12 labels were switched. KWRegan (talk) 03:38, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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