Talk:Puppy chow (snack)

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I would like to help expand this page by giving different regional names for this snack food. I know that in some states it is referred to as trash, muddy buddies, and in Michigan referred to as Puppy Chow. Are there other names that this snack food can be called? ~Asrrin29 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.118.225.66 (talk) 17:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

It's also called "white trash" in the Southern United States, although this usage is fading as some consider it offensive. ~Rptrcub — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rptrcub (talk • contribs) 00:34, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I've also heard it called - as an extension of "puppy chow" - "dog chow" and "kibble", though "puppy chow" is the usual term around here (here being north suburbs of Chicago). AudiblySilenced (talk) 05:54, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

We should have the title of this page as, "Muddy Buddies" because the recipe was made by Chex, the food can only be made by Chex Cereal, and on the Chex website has it officially named "Muddy Buddies." It's common sense, and while doing that, we could list the other unofficial names next to it, and also have the other name searches redirect here. The article would be more correct and sensible if we change it to "Muddy Buddies" instead of "Puppy Chow."

~Man who knows the truth — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.24.249.117 (talk) 22:48, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

In my time living in the Delmarva region, I have heard it called just "trash," and sometimes "crack," in addition to "white trash" and of course "puppy chow." Clearly the more offensive the name, the better? 216.81.94.71 (talk) 16:27, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Origins of Puppy Chow

Unless you can find a reputable source that states who invented puppy chow, don't spread possible misinformation. Just because Chex Cereal is commonly used to make puppy chow doesn't mean that their company invented it. It's just as likely that an individual came up with the recipe and Chex picked it up and now promotes it. --Zophar (talk) 05:02, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Naming Debate

Puppy chow goes by many names, and there is often debate over what the "Offical" name is. I would prefer to use the most commonly used name as the article title, and note other (widely used) names for the snack in the article. I also think that using a name that includes the Chex brand is shameless advertising unless it can be established from reputable, unbiased sources that Chex invented this snack. As evidence for the most popular name being "puppy chow," I submit Google Trends for puppy chow, puppy food, white trash, bachelor chow, and Muddy Buddies. --Zophar (talk) 05:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Regardless of its name,

Surely we can all agree that the only reason to put it in the refrigerator or freezer is if you want to ruin it. Ugh. And Rice Chex? Who is responsible for these terrible, terrible mistakes? Still-Warm + Corn Chex is obviously the best way to ever eat Muddy Buddies. 75.69.34.112 (talk) 02:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

• The Rice Chex stuff was likely added because of people with gluten allergies. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 06:09, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 30 January 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus to move the page away from Puppy chow at this time, per the discussion below. However, there is no consensus on the question of what to do with the resulting redirect. If the issue cannot be solved via normal editing, then I suggest taking the Puppy chow redirect to WP:RFD. Dekimasuよ! 19:14, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

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Puppy chow → Puppy chow (snack) – As per WP:PRECISE and WP:COMMONNAME the phrase "puppy chow" should be used as a disambiguation page since "puppy chow" is also used as a registered trademark of Ralston, Purina for its dog food products [1]. "Puppy chow" should have its own disambiguation entry along with two entries for 1) Dog Food Products produced by Ralston, Purina 2) Puppy chow (snack) a popular homemade savory snack. Octoberwoodland (talk) 06:10, 30 January 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. SITH (talk) 12:58, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

• Support - However, the lowercase version of the term should be redirected to dog food and a hatnote added. Per WP:DIFFCAPS, no disambiguation page is necessary. Puppy Chow can simply redirect to Dog Chow._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 07:23, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
• Support and redirect to Dog Chow as upper case already is (diffcaps not being used as often and is on its way to Wikipedia extinction), and per WP:ASTONISH (this page is about a human food, not a dog food). Randy Kryn (talk) 11:07, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose - based on current usage, there is no need in either adding a dismabiguation to this article title or to create a disambiguation page. "Puppy chow" is not mentioned at the Ralston Purina article, nor does it have a stand-alone article. All that is needed is to add a hatnote to this article. --Gonnym (talk) 11:14, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

• What about WP:ASTONISH? This page is about a human snack, not puppy food. There is already a redirect for the upper case rendition of this name, and the upper case is mentioned at the Dog Chow page. RM comments and results elsewhere have pronounced DIFFCAPS as on its way out. So this page should probably be redirected to the same place as Puppy Chow. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:11, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:DIFFCAPS, which was reaffirmed as a viable policy in a recent RfC. Using lowercase here differentiates the snack from the trademark. Dohn joe (talk) 17:42, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

One of the principal reasons trademark law exists is to allow trademark owners to assert their rights to prevent confusion in the marketplace by enjoining others from using their trademarks. Although Wikipedia is not necessarily concerned with trademark infringement per se like it is concerned with copyright infringement, at the same time we should not use confusing titles which may muddy the waters. This is exactly why WP:PRECISE comes into play here and why a title which clearly impinges someones trademark rights and creates confusion should be avoided. For most of the world, "puppy chow" refers to dog food, not a snack made from chex cereal in most peoples minds. WP:DIFFCAPS does not apply here since we are referring to a trademark, which is still protected, and trademark law is case neutral (domain names are case insensitive) -- so your WP:DIFFCAPS arguments simply do not apply. Were a trademark owner to assert their trademark rights, whatever case is used for a trademark is actually quite irrelevant. Trademark law asks a simple question -- does the use of a trademark create confusion in the marketplace over the use of the term by others. In this case, it creates confusion to use both names with mixed case. Octoberwoodland (talk) 02:06, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

References

One example to consider is the trademark "Wikipedia". Domain names in a URL on the internet are case insensitive, and I have personal knowledge that the Wikimedia Foundation has historically both threatened and taken legal action to protect the use of it's trademark "Wikipedia" by others. Since the Wikimedia Foundation has demonstrated it will protect it's trademarks, how can we, as editors, not show our subject matter and articles the same respect? Octoberwoodland (talk) 02:48, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

That's fine from a trademark law perspective, which I get, but from a WP perspective, we look to usage in reliable sources. Several sources in the article use "puppy chow" as the name of the snack. This is not WP muddying the waters, but following real-world reliable-source usage. If Purina wants to take legal action against those sources, that might change the real-world usage, and we would follow suit. Now, other sources call the snack "muddy buddies" - if you wanted to propose a move to that title, feel free, but Puppy chow should still redirect here. Dohn joe (talk) 16:16, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

• Move and make a disambiguation page. I don't buy the trademark argument, case-sensitive or not. It's a matter for the trademark owners, but an assertion of a trademark in one market does not make it universal. It can be used to mean home-made human food because there is no risk of confusion in the market. Although "coke" is a trademark for a soft drink, there is no infringement when it is used to mean coke (fuel).

"Puppy chow" seems to be used generically. For example, in this eBook we have the conversation: "What kind of puppy chow do you recommend?" ... "Anything I have in this area is good for puppies". (A more cautious publisher might have changed that.)

But the use to mean a human food seems restricted to the (Midwestern?) U.S. Puppy food is a redlink, and redirect Dog chow was only created on 30 January, so I'm not convinced a redirect+hatnote suffices here. Dog food doesn't mention puppies, but we have Puppy nutrition. 94.21.204.175 (talk) 05:04, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

• Comment. The company was "Ralston Purina", not "Ralston, Purina" - but anyway, the trademark owner is Nestlé Purina PetCare, which acquired it. I've created Draft:Puppy chow (disambiguation). 94.21.204.175 (talk) 05:55, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
• Support: Not the primary topic for the term. Purina uses the term for very well known products that have been on the market for 50+ years, and this topic was given its name as an imitation of that name, and the term is also broadly used generically. Please see this product page and WP:ASTONISH. —BarrelProof (talk) 01:09, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
• Support and redirect to Dog Chow, just like the Dog chow and Puppy Chow redirects (consonant with WP:CONSISTENCY policy, and continually decreased community acceptance that . This regional slang usage for a human snack is very obviously not the primary topic for this term. I don't strongly object to a disambiguation page, as second choice, but one is not necessary per WP:TWODABS; a disambiguation hatnote will suffice. PS: Given that the snack has multiple names regionally, consider actually moving the article to monkey munch or some other name; I have yet to see any WP:COMMONNAME analysis demonstrating that "puppy chow" is even the most common name for the snack.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  11:04, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.