Talk:Hook Nose

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Untitled[edit]

Это Римский Нос,но не Шайенн.Этот Римский Нос является Миниконжу.Фотография была сделана в Форте Ларами в 1868г.Group at Ft. Laramie Treaty Council of 1868, L to R: Spotted Tail (Brule), Roman Nose (Northern Cheyenne), Old Man Afraid of His Horses (Oglala), Lone Horn (Miniconjou), Pipe, Slow Bull (Oglala),Whistling Elk.

Copyright problem removed[edit]

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Birth date[edit]

First line of lede states he was born about 1823; deeper in the article, 1830 is given instead. Even given the difficulties of dating a birth within a preliterate society, there ought to be closer agreement than that.

Georgejdorner (talk) 17:03, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Who was the father of Hook Nose?[edit]

Follow-up to the question asked at Help Desk 29 March 2018 # hook nose:

The Hook Nose 23 March 2018 # Biography section says:

Hook Nose was born around 1830, son of Lone Horn and brother of Spotted Elk and Touch the Clouds.

The Spotted Elk article seems to confirm Hook Nose was his brother, however it requests a citation for the claim.
The Touch the Clouds article also mentions Hook Nose as a brother.
However, the Lone Horn article does not agree and says:

Lone Horn's sons were Spotted Elk (later known as Big Foot) and Touch the Clouds, and Crazy Horse was his nephew.

In addition, Lone Horn, Spotted Elk and Touch the Clouds all were Miniconjou Lakota, while Hook Nose was Cheyenne.

Is it possible a Cheyenne was a son and brother of Lakotas? Which articles are right and which are wrong? --CiaPan (talk) 06:32, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

P.S.
Pinging @Maproom:, who participated in the talk at WP:HD.

You should start by removing the problematic information since it is not supported by a reliable source. Then start looking for information about his family in reliable sources. It is likely that there is no such information to be found in reliable sources, in which case the article simply should not include any information about family relations.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 11:22, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hardorff's book that is cited in the article on Spotted Elk and Touch the Clouds, makes it clear that the "Roman Nose" mentioned as their brother was a Minneconjou leader, and not Cheyenne - so probably it is a different person with the same name. The Cheyenne leader Hook Nose died in 1868, but the Minneconjou Roman Nose mentioned by Hardorff was alive in 1877 when he surrendered to general Crook.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 11:25, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Article needs significant clarity: please distinguish between two different men[edit]

The lede refers to a Cheyenne chief who died in 1868; then the image is of the other Roman Nose (Miniconjou)... the redirect at the top saying double-redirects back to this same article. An expert on this subject needs to weigh in and split the article into two clear biographical articles.

The "other" Roman Nose of Miniconjou Sioux descent is notable in his own right; he is a noted artist described in American Indian Painters (Snodgrass, 1968) and whose sketchbook of drawings is in the collection of the Office of Anthropology Archives at the Smithsonian Institution (per Snodgrass). Sweet kate (talk) 20:03, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding his “war bonnet”[edit]

There are a total of three (!) sections of this page devoted to this man’s belief in his own magical invincibility.

The story of his death is not presented as folklore or myth — the article directly attributes his death to his failure to perform a magical ritual in order to restore his invincibility.

To be clear, I don’t mean to suggest that there is no place here for the folkloric rendition of his life story — it’s clearly a noteworthy part of his legacy and historical standing.

But it’s entirely inappropriate for Wikipedia to suggest that the trajectory of a significant historical figure’s military career was dictated by the magical properties of his headwear. 118.211.12.148 (talk) 14:14, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]