Talk:St. Augustine movement

King Street

As I was reading this I found it quite a coincidence that the street where King was arrested was called King St. Actually, I suspect the street was named thus after the fact. I think we should use the original name of the street as it was back then, to avoid the distraction, and put "renamed to King Street" in parentheses. Lionelt (talk) 05:54, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I know this is very late in coming, but "King Street" bore that name at the time. Nowadays there is also a Martin Luther King Avenue in St. Augustine, which confusingly intersects with King Street.--Cúchullain ^t/c 22:04, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

400th Anniversary - LBJ visit

This part of the story seems to be missing:

"Lincolnville is St. Augustine's Black neighborhood and Mrs. Fannie Fullerwood — who works as a maid for a white family — is president of the local NAACP. In March of 1963, she sends a letter to President Kennedy and Vice President Lyndon Johnson asking them to reject a large financial grant requested by the city for a segregated celebration of its 400th anniversary. With Greenwood and Birmingham on front pages around the world, LBJ replies that: "No event in which I will participate in St. Augustine will be segregated." But what does that mean? Does it mean that places and events will be temporarily desegregated while he is present, or does it mean he will only participate in locations that have been permanently integrated?

Intense negotiations between the local NAACP, St. Augustine's white power-structure, and LBJ's representatives ensue. LBJ comes to town for a banquet, and for the first time in history, Blacks enter the lavish Ponce de Leon Hotel ballroom as guests rather than maids or bus boys (they are seated by themselves at two "Negro" tables). But St Augustine's restaurants, lunch counters, motels, and other facilities remain segregated, as does the Ponce de Leon after the Vice President leaves. And the next day when NAACP leaders show up for a promised meeting with the City Commission, they are shown to an empty room with a tape recorder. They are told to record their complaints because no white official will meet with them in person.

By early June, the hope that had soared at the time of LBJ's visit is dying. Nothing has come from the tape-recorded grievances, and so far as the city is concerned, the 400th anniversary celebrations are going to be on a segregated basis. Dr. Robert Hayling, a young Black dentist recently arrived in the city, becomes head of the St. Augustine NAACP Youth Council (SAYC). He had been active with the Nashville Sitin Movement in 1960 while a dental student at Mehary Medical College, and he announces that unless there is some tangible progress, the young people of St. Augustine are ready to begin nonviolent direct action like those in Birmingham. A few days later he leads small groups of pickets at the local Woolworths to protest segregation. They carry signs reading: "If We Spend Money Here Why Can't We Eat Here?" " http://www.crmvet.org/tim/tim63b.htm#1963staug — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jim.Callahan,Orlando (talk • contribs) 21:51, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 18 January 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. A numerical majority favors this move, and the policy arguments of the opposers weren't very convincing. User:Montanabw offered a song and a novel as examples, but for them the rule of MOS:CT applies. The St. Augustine movement does not fall under that rule since it is not a composition title. MOS:CAPS relies on usage in sources to figure out which terms are proper names and thus require title case. User:Dicklyon and User:Dohn joe supplied the needed sources to evaluate this. The answer to User:Randy Kryn's point about consistency is that Wikipedia doesn't have to be any more consistent than the sources. The capitalization of each term depends on how that particular term is used in published writings. EdJohnston (talk) 00:57, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

---

St. Augustine Movement → St. Augustine movement – Discussion started to allow move-warriors to discuss their concerns based on WP policies/guidelines and citations to relevant external sources. DMacks (talk) 20:40, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose: This is a title, just like Battle Hymn of the Republic or For Whom the Bell Tolls. Capitalization in title case appropriate here. Montanabw^(talk) 19:58, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
• Strongly OpposeThe St. Augustine Movement occurred in 1964. Due to the participation of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) and its chairman, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., it became a key part of the year’s events within the overall 1960s Civil Rights Movement. It also became one of a series of 1960s events which, although linked overall, could be identified as separate . I’d personally classify these as the Nashville Student Movement, the 1961 Freedom Rides, the Albany Movement, Mississippi Freedom Summer, the Birmingham Movement and its main event - the Birmingham Children’s Crusade - the March on Washington, the St. Augustine Movement, the Selma Voting Rights Movement and its culmination – the Selma to Montgomery marches – and finally, the Chicago Freedom Movement and its successful project, the Chicago Open Housing Movement.

Here we get to consistency. The five topics that this discussion can discuss, according to the above template, are ‘Recognizability’, ‘Naturalness’, ‘Precision’, ‘Conciseness’, and ‘Consistency’. The name St. Augustine Movement fulfills the first four guidelines. And then the section informs us that Wikipedia should be consistent. Well, so far so good, as the above names (excluding the Selma marches, which were a tactic within a movement rather than a movement themselves) are capitalized on Wikipedia, either directly or as a page's second name, and have been since they were created. To change the capitalization on Wikipedia of any of these events, and to change the capitalization of the African-American Civil Rights Movement as a whole, should take, I would think, a very nearly universal consensus. Since these events are quite important in American and world history, the main page is seen as a vital article, and changing them in this way - such a major change - but then, in the midst of the back and forth roaring and head-scratching over several talk pages…..consistency rears its charming head.

It happened this way. On my talk page where Dicklyon and I were posting comments about an edit we were then engaged in, an edit war regarding the on-page without-a-discussion decapitalization of the names “St. Augustine Movement” and “Birmingham Movement”, the posts were getting pretty heated. Then Dicklyon, who is spearheading the move to decapitalize all of the 1960s Civil Rights Movement pages, volunteered something. He says he will not attempt to change the capitalization of the page “Chicago Freedom Movement”. That the Chicago Freedom Movement is a proper name. So, in effect, if an attempt to change the name of the “Chicago Freedom Movement” to, say, something like “Chicago freedom movement”, occurs, Dicklyon and I would be on the same side. Brothers in arms, fine lads, and fast friends indeed. And so, unless something extraordinary occurs, the page Chicago Freedom Movement will stay as it is.Which gives us the answer to this question regarding St. Augustine. For now, of course, to be consistent, the title should be left the way we found it. At a minimum, I submit that a strong enough case can now be made on this point of consistency – that by Dicklyon assuring us that the name Chicago Freedom Movement will remain capitalized in the future - that all of the names of the 1960s movements on Wikipedia must remain capitalized. For a consensus to change the long standing titles and lower-case these names – a consensus taking consistency into consideration as the guidelines direct us to - cannot now be reached to make such a change. Randy Kryn 3:06 20 January, 2015 (UTC)

• Support per MOS:CAPS and sources – Just look at sources; fewer than 1 book in 10 capitalizes "movement". If they don't capitalize, then WP does not. It is not a case of MOS:CT as Montanabw suggests; we use sentence case for article titles. Dicklyon (talk) 04:03, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
• Support per MOS:CAPS and this Google Books search. 16 of 17 sources using "the St. Auagustine Mmovement" (adding "the" helps to narrow it down to actual sentence usage) use lower case. That's 94% using lowercase. (Also, if Dicklyon and I agree on a capitalization question, there's a good chance that we've got it right.) Dohn joe (talk) 22:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
• Support per Dicklyon In ictu oculi (talk) 08:36, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

St Benedict the Moor church and school

St Benedict should probably be added to this article somewhere. MLK used to use the rectory for major meetings and such. natemup (talk) 01:45, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Old St. Johns County Jail

I could've swore the article mentioned that many of the civil rights marchers were sent to the NRHP-listed Old St. Johns County Jail. which was briefly reopened just for them. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 16:52, 13 November 2022 (UTC)