User talk:Ben MacDui

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If you leave a new message on this page, I will usually reply here unless specifically asked to reply elsewhere.

St Magnus Bay[edit]

Hi MacDui, I've made a start on the geology section, although at the moment it's just an alternative text bunged into the section with a few additional refs. I don't think that the impact origin is taken very seriously these days, but it gets mentioned so I guess it deserves its place. I will try to integrate what I've added with the existing text, although I'll leave out the large strike-slip movement on the St Magnus Bay Fault, deferring to John Marshall on this one. I'm also not sure of the necessity to add a general introduction to Shetland geology. Mikenorton (talk) 22:29, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks. The general intro was something I started when I realised our army of interns had so far failed to complete Geology of Shetland and I wanted to make sure I had some understanding of the background. The shape is the most obvious feature of the bay - if the impact is no longer in fashion, is it presumed to be random? Ben MacDui 07:52, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Ryan-Zico Black[edit]

Hello Ben MacDui, please can you restore the talk page for Ryan-Zico Black? Clavdia chauchat (talk) 22:42, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Done. Ben MacDui 08:11, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Lismore, Scotland[edit]

The article Lismore, Scotland you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Lismore, Scotland for comments about the article. Well done! Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Casliber -- Casliber (talk) 23:32, 3 October 2013 (UTC)


Hi, I left a note on Talk:Fortingall Yew discussing the categorization, please reply. Thank you Hekerui (talk) 08:49, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 15[edit]

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UN Cemetery[edit]

Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 19:33, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. Ben MacDui 14:11, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Traveller rant[edit]

He's put that same thing into quite a few pages [1] Akerbeltz (talk) 13:50, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

I see you have removed the remaining ones. I will keep my eye open for any repetitions. Ben MacDui 14:02, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Books and Bytes: The Wikipedia Library Newsletter[edit]

Books and Bytes

Volume 1, Issue 1, October 2013

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by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs)

Greetings Wikipedia Library members! Welcome to the inaugural edition of Books and Bytes, TWL’s monthly newsletter. We're sending you the first edition of this opt-in newsletter, because you signed up, or applied for a free research account: HighBeam, Credo, Questia, JSTOR, or Cochrane. To receive future updates of Books and Bytes, please add your name to the subscriber's list. There's lots of news this month for the Wikipedia Library, including new accounts, upcoming events, and new ways to get involved...

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News from the library world: Wikipedian joins the National Archives full time; the Getty Museum releases 4,500 images; CERN goes CC-BY

Announcing WikiProject Open: WikiProject Open kicked off in October, with several brainstorming and co-working sessions

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Read the full newsletter

Thanks for reading! All future newsletters will be opt-in only. Have an item for the next issue? Leave a note for the editor on the Suggestions page. --The Interior 20:29, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Description of the Western Isles of Scotland[edit]

Thanks for your invitation. I have looked in with great pleasure at the FAC. I hope you will put a note on my talk page letting me know of any further PRs or FACs you put forward. Tim riley (talk) 19:10, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for this suggestion - I will be sure to do so and please feel free to reciprocate. Ben MacDui 19:14, 11 November 2013 (UTC)


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Hello, Ben MacDui. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of international cricket five-wicket hauls by Curtly Ambrose/archive1.
Message added Zia Khan 19:44, 16 November 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Your concerns addressed there. 23:22, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library Survey[edit]

As a subscriber to one of The Wikipedia Library's programs, we'd like to hear your thoughts about future donations and project activities in this brief survey. Thanks and cheers, Ocaasi t | c 15:06, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Seasonal greetings[edit]

2013 Christmas Tree.jpg

Merry Christmas and best wishes for a happy, healthy and productive 2014!
Ruhrfisch ><>°° 23:23, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

PS Thanks for nominating me for the Triple Crown! Ruhrfisch ><>°° 23:23, 24 December 2013 (UTC)


Hi, could you have a look at this article? I've been slow working to tidy up after a certain blocked user, however on this article what info there was has been stripped due to lack of refs. Could you just give bit of advice, and maybe assist resurrecting it from sub-stub state?--Nilfanion (talk) 16:39, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

A Happy New Year - and I see you are inviting me into a minor edit war! I will be happy to oblige without of course taking any sides in this unfortunate spat. Ben MacDui 15:07, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
You too, and hope you had a good Christmas too :)
That conflict there almost rates as lame ;) Pinged you for outside viewpoint and because I know you are more familiar with Scotland and settlement article content than me. Incidentally I am not sure about the Coulthard ref, my understanding is he has lived in Monaco for several years - whereas his hometown and birthplace is Twynholm; the Coulthard museum is relevant too. The ref merely says he is "of" Twynholm which is ambiguous.--Nilfanion (talk) 00:38, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
True enough apparently and fixed. Ben MacDui 11:23, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

GA for mountains[edit]

Hi, I was wondering if you had much experience with getting scottish mountains to GA. I have been expanding Càrn Eige but I am doubtful whether it can be got to GA since I lack sources and in any case coverage seems to be patchy on anything apart from how to climb it. Thanks --Gilderien Berate|List of good deeds 18:31, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Next to none I'm afraid, beyond being a long term page-watcher of Ben Nevis. The SMC probably have some useful publications. I am not sure I have much myself, but I'll take a look. Incidentally, I understand the idea, but I can't help feeling that listing the "prominence" as 2nd is a shade misleading to the average reader. Ben MacDui 19:19, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Shetland writers[edit]

Hi, Ben MacDui,

I see you didn't like the changes I made to the 'Writers' subsection of the 'Shetland' page. Nothing I'm going to get worked up about, but I do think it's a bit tendentious to single out Vagaland as 'arguably the greatest' Shetland poet. He's well up among the contenders, certainly, but - very different though they are - William J Tait is equally so. Others might draw up different shortlists, too!

I've amended your list of 'contemporary' writers, because Tait and Lollie Graham are no longer alive. If and when time stops being in short supply, I may add some earlier writers not mentioned in the current text.

Cheers, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaldrockie (talkcontribs) 12:35, 14 January 2014 (UTC) Aaldrockie (talk) 12:40, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't have any great investment in the details but ideally any of those mentioned would be referenced (and must be so if their own article is not) and their inclusion would be based on some kind of recognition beyond the shores of Shetland. Ben MacDui 09:25, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

January 2014[edit]

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Precious again[edit]

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wild and lonely places of North Britain
Thank you for quality articles on the Scottish islands, such as Skye, and people such as Rachel Chiesley, Lady Grange, for you recipe against wikistress, and for quoting "the mutual creation of capacity, building the ability of the other person or group to become, in turn, a giver of life and responsibility", - repeating: you are an awesome Wikipedian (16 August 2010)!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

A year ago, you were the 374th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:08, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Orkenyinga saga[edit]

Thanks for updating Møre og Romsdal, but I am not sure how informative it is to add the entire county to "Category:Orkneyinga saga places". Møre og Romsdal is a modern administrative division, it is related to Viking-era name of a district, but I doubt that it is very precise to label the county as a "place" mentioned in that saga. --Erik den yngre (talk) 15:32, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I am aware of that but there does not seem to be an article about Møre itself, unless I have missed something. Ben MacDui 15:37, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
Exactly how is it referred to in that saga? Regards --Erik den yngre (talk) 18:52, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
It is only a brief reference, although a crucial one. According to the saga the first earl of Orkney was Rognvald Eysteinsson: "Earl Rognvald campaigned with King Harald Fine-hair who gave him charge of North More, South More and Romsdal" - and then after various adventures Harald "gave Earl Rognvald Shetland and Orkney" in compensation for the death of his son Ivar. Eventually Rognvald's son Torf-Einarr becomes earl and founds a dynasty that lasted until medieval times. Although this connection is not accepted as genuine history by all modern scholars it is clearly an attempt by the saga writers to create a link back to Norway and legitimise the earldom's founding. Ben MacDui 19:08, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
North More roughly corresponds to present Nordmøre district, South More roughly Sunnmøre and Romsdal between. According to the sources I browsed quickly these names are old, at least from "saga time". Snorre Sturluson also wrote that Ragnvald Øysteinson became Earl of Romsdal and "both Møre". It appears that medieval Nordmøre (North More) may have stretched further north along the coast (what is now coastal areas of Sør-Trøndelag county), perhaps as far as Namdalen (Norwegian source: Helle, Knut. Norge blir en stat 1130 – 1319. Universitetsforlaget, Oslo 1974). So it Møre og Romsdal probably corresponds roughly to Møre of the saga. --Erik den yngre (talk) 19:32, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
OK and thanks for that. Ben MacDui 13:11, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Reading material[edit]

Hi MacDui. I came across this pdf through Google. It might be of interest: The Vikings and Scotland - Impact and Influence. It gives little summaries of talks from a conference back in 2006. There's also a newish book somewhat previewable on Google Books, called "Celtic-Norse Relationships in the Irish Sea in the Middle Ages 800-1200". It has chapters by Beuermann, Crawford, and Downham amongst others. Crawford's is titled "The Kingdom of Man and the Earldom of Orkney—Some Comparisons". Here's the publisher's website which names the chapters/contributors [2]. Maybe if we're lucky a chapter or two might pop up on some time in the future.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 00:42, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Crawford's piece does sound interesting and I will keep a look out for that. Thanks for letting me know. Ben MacDui 13:14, 27 January 2014 (UTC)


Hi Ben,

You referred me to WP:HOLM saying that the WPSI project's goals are not confined to geography. That page has a brief description of the goals of the project. It says the project is for articles that describe Scottish islands. The Sitekit article I edited describes Sitekit. Sitekit is not a Scottish island. Therefore the Sitekit article does not belong in WPSI. Buster79 (talk) 18:06, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

The topic is broadly construed. If the Project page itself is not evidence enough, try Category:Islands of Scotland and it's numerous sub-cats, or Category:Scottish Islands articles by quality, where the table indicates that the volume of articles covered by the project vastly exceeds the number of islands and is clearly not confined to simple geography. We could easily create a category or two for the islands that includes the Inner Hebrides etc. and was a sub-cat of Category:Organisations based in Scotland, but so far no-one has been inspired to do so. Ben MacDui 18:19, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Okay, if you really think so. I have no agenda here, it just seems incongruous. Buster79 (talk) 20:06, 2 February 2014 (UTC)


A new experience. Having just welcomed a new user called "5Bengal", I was quickly menaced on my talk page. And then again. Could you please have a word with 5Bengal? Moonraker (talk) 09:06, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

You have caught me as I was just leaving for real world duties. 5Bengal's threats are clearly unacceptable but I'd want to check the history before taking action and I can't until much later today. If no other admin is watching this can take action, you would have every justification in taking this to WP:ANI. Ben MacDui 09:13, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Thank you, will follow your advice. Moonraker (talk) 09:25, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Glad it was fixed in short order - just let me know if you need anything else. Ben MacDui 17:21, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Sigurd the Stout[edit]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Sigurd the Stout you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. Time2wait.svg This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Adam Cuerden -- Adam Cuerden (talk) 20:31, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Sigurd the Stout[edit]

May I just say, this was a joy to review. Engaging, well-written, and hit all my historical interests. If you ever get annoyed about a GA being unreviewed, please ask me. Adam Cuerden (talk) 17:44, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks indeed! Ben MacDui 17:42, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Sigurd the Stout[edit]

The article Sigurd the Stout you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Sigurd the Stout for comments about the article. Well done! Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Adam Cuerden -- Adam Cuerden (talk) 17:52, 23 February 2014 (UTC)


All of this was anticipated and will leave it at that --BurlesqueCoversGalére (talk) 16:40, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

additionally, there was no breach as far as i am aware and all information was already in the public domain provided by each party no less. I consider those to be primary sources. It's all out there and there is a great deal more. I would advise that if it it so important to keep this information private then they should revise what they have publicized so far, not rocket science.--BurlesqueCoversGalére (talk) 16:49, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Lady Cathcart[edit]

Hi MacDui, thanks for adding another Project banner to Emily Gordon Cathcart - I didn't know about that project! There is an awful lot that could still be added to Lady Cathcart, I'm amazed that there wasn't anything for her before now. Unfortunately, I don't have time to do much with it at the moment so just cobbled together a handful of basic stuff in the hope someone will expand it a bit more. Together with her father-in-law, John Gordon they must have had quite an effect on the islands. SagaciousPhil - Chat 10:50, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Template talk:Europe topic[edit]

Please visit this page ASAP! --MacRùsgail (talk) 12:06, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Description of the Western Isles of Scotland TFLS[edit]

Hi MacDui,

You've done a great job in producing high-quality content related to Scotland! I've nominated Description of the Western Isles of Scotland to go up on the main page here. I was wondering about the proper way of referring to this work. The article is called "Description of the Western Isles of Scotland" without an "A" or "The" to begin with, but the first line of the lead starts with the word "The", and publications of the work seem to begin the title with "A". Any clarification on this point would be greatly appreciated. I think it's a great article and I'd like to see it gain a TFL slot.

Neelix (talk) 17:35, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks for this kind nomination and sorry not to respond sooner. I've been very tied up over the last few weeks. I am pretty sure there is no prefacing article but I will check this out and expect to reply on Saturday. Ben MacDui 20:24, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
A slightly tricky issue. The 1934 online version clearly has "A Description..." but R. W. Munro's definitive 1961 publication lists three published versions all without any prefacing article and then also lists the online version in full with the title that you can see on the above link. Martin Martin's "Description", with which Monro is published in the linked article is almost always refered to by the title "A Description...." and I believe the 1934 version is mistaken in putting the "A" in front of Monro's work. Needless to say I don't have a copy of any of the Monro originals. R. W. Munro p. 46 quotes the whole of Monro's work under the heading "Description of the Occidental i.e. Western Isles of Scotland". Haswell-Smith, Hamish (2004). The Scottish Islands. Edinburgh: Canongate. ISBN 978-1-84195-454-7. 

's bibilography lists the work without the "A". In summary, some versions or editions may have had an "A" but most versions and the most definitive publication on the topic do not use this so I think we are safe enough without it. Ben MacDui 13:08, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

That makes sense to me. Thanks for looking into this issue! I have removed the prefacing "the" from both the article and the blurb. I'm glad you approve of the TFL nomination. Neelix (talk) 16:33, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Interesting. I notice now that Munro refers repeatedly to "Monro's Description " - a usage that is hard to sustain with any ease in the article. It is sometimes referred to in this way to distinguish it from Martin's work of similar name and I don't recall the work being called "Description" very often but I'll leave it be unless I come across anything clear. Ben MacDui 19:38, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

JSTOR Survey (and an update)[edit]

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Cheers, Ocaasi via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:47, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Done. Ben MacDui 13:09, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

List of oldest buildings[edit]

No ruins found at the Gulf of Cambay, so I'm removing this. Letting you know as you added it (I know you'll be notified on your watchlist but this is more personal). Dougweller (talk) 11:35, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Request for comment[edit]

Hello there, a proposal regarding pre-adminship review has been raised at Village pump by Anna Frodesiak. Your comments here is very much appreciated. Many thanks. Jim Carter through MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:46, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Where are you?[edit]

I see you haven't added anything to your talk page in two months. I hope all is well. I was going to ask you a question, but since you're not very active on WP at present, I'll have to ask someone else. Best regards, CorinneSD (talk) 23:48, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm around, just very real-world busy right now. Happy to help if I can. Ben MacDui 08:07, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Oh, good. I'm glad you're still participating. I left my question on Finnrind's talk page at User talk:Finnrind#Runes, but he/she has also not been active for a few weeks. I'd be happy if you could answer my question. CorinneSD (talk) 15:50, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Please fill out your JSTOR email[edit]

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July 2014[edit]

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Hi Ben MacDui, you kindly complimented my article on Stroma, Scotland when it appeared on DYK back in January. I thought you might like to know that I've nominated it for GA, hopefully as the first step towards an eventual featured article nomination. Prioryman (talk) 22:15, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Good news & I will have another read through soon. Ben MacDui 07:37, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

I was on the brink of a quick copy edit but another editor beat me to it. Best leave it for now I think as it might start to trouble criterion 5 - stability, otherwise. I am afraid I can't review it myself as I qualify as 'involved'. If you fancy a crack at FA let me know and I'll take a closer look. Ben MacDui 17:25, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, it's passed GA now, so I've nominated it for FAC - please see Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Stroma, Scotland/archive1. Feel free to comment or offer any suggestions there! Prioryman (talk) 18:50, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
I saw that already and was on the brink of offering congratulations but you beat me to it. Will look at it as soon as time allows. Ben MacDui 20:06, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Olaf of Norway[edit]

Hey MacDui, just noticed you're about at the moment and perhaps you can answer a quick question for me, please? I was looking at Orkneyinga saga and there is a DAB for Olaf of Norway; I was going to try to fix the DAB but wasn't 100% sure but I'm confident you'll know which Olaf it is .... We've been working on another Orkney creature Stoor worm .... SagaciousPhil - Chat 20:10, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Einar died in 1026 so it would be King Olaf II of Norway. I saw the stoor worm the other day. 'Stoor' is a Scots word still in use today - see here. Ben MacDui 08:06, 12 August 2014 (UTC) PS By my rather dubious calculations Tangie was the 2,999th page assessed by WP Scottish Islands.
Thank you very muchly! That Scots language site is going to be a handy link. I was actually thinking of suggesting to Eric that Tangie might be interesting/amusing to work on next - after we finish up Stoor worm and Boobrie but the latter is proving a bit difficult to get our heads round. SagaciousPhil - Chat 08:24, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
I don't think the etymology you fed to Sagaciousphil was the correct one. But now when I try to revise it (my edit on 08:46, 15 August 2014) he has become entrenched about not accepting it.
When I read the stoor worm story some years ago, I found that a general-purpose Scots dictionary could not be counted on to provide definitions in the Orcadian dialect.
But now there is Dictionary of the Scots Language (online) and if you query using "Full Entry" instead of the default "Headword Form", you will retrieve the SND entry for

"STURE" adj. [3], " Also stour(e), stoor,.." with definition "1. Big, large, stout, burly", with specifically the combined form entry "stoorworm, a monster serpent, a sea-dragon."

--Kiyoweap (talk) 04:48, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
You have now confirmed you are following me around with your tendentious editing, otherwise how did you discover this conversation? FYI, Stoor worm was a brand new article, still very much being developed and worked on when someone else decided to DYK nominate it (this can be clearly seen by the fact a flurry of activity took place when we noticed the nomination). Your uncivil comments on the Talk:Kelpie, evidently part of your stated objective of sustained harassment, is now being continued on Stoor worm by your attempts to deface it with unreliable source tags. You have never previously done any work on Scottish mythology creatures and your reference formatting skills are negligible - there are still at least three refs on Kelpie that you have mangled. SagaciousPhil - Chat 06:09, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
@Kiyoweap: You are correct that the Orcadian dialect is likely to have numerous differences from mainland Scots. However, please note that the information I provided was specifically about the word 'stoor', which I have heard used. I did not then and do not now offer an opinion of the etymology of 'stoor worm'. He, incidentally, is a she. Take care. Ben MacDui 07:28, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
@Ben MacDui:: Well, of course I was aiming to elicit your re-assessment on the etymology. But I can't twist your arm. Maybe you know these people in person. I will take it as a sort of non-retraction retraction though, now that you are saying you are not endorsing (nor refuting) this "battle, strife" etymology for "stoor worm".
On your sitting on the fence, let me say this though. On the WP:WikiProject Scotland#Is Corryvreckan in the Minch? thread where I first saw your name, I think you could have been a lot more helpful lodging your geographer's opinon on the geographic issue that Mutt Lunker raised there, instead of completing the derailment with your willful act: (Pls do not feed the dragon - oops, I just did) I will grant it was comic relief, and I nearly got baited into joining in on the theme. But in the final analysis, it only aids and abets the obfuscators of the concrete issues. --Kiyoweap (talk) 10:10, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
It is kind of you to offer your advice and opinions. Ben MacDui 14:55, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 20[edit]

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Moncrieffe Island[edit]

I have some info about Moncrieffe Island which was once a farm and was called Friarton Island. I was the last person to live in the original Farmhouse for 3 years in the 1960's I also have a picture of that building which was demolished before 1983 when I last visited the Island.

Thanks I found your reply but cannot find it again. I also tried to add a picture to this site but it failed. is my address. My photo is my own so no worries about using it. Is the picture enough or would a description or how we coped with no electricity etc and the long walk to the bridge to get to town etc and how the golfers knew me and helped me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joyce Bowles (talkcontribs) 14:46, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Stroma FAC needs reviews[edit]

I nominated Stroma, Scotland for FA status nearly two weeks ago - see Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Stroma, Scotland/archive1 - but unfortunately it's received only one substantive review in that time. I'm a bit concerned that the FAC is at risk of failing for lack of responses. In the light of your previous feedback on this article, do you think you might be able to offer some comments on the FAC? Prioryman (talk) 18:02, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Apologies for the slow response. I hope to take a look this weekend. Ben MacDui 16:59, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments - I've addressed them all, hopefully to your satisfaction. Could you please indicate whether you're OK with the changes I've made? Also, I should add that being a member of a WikiProject doesn't prevent you from offering an opinion on whether an article should be promoted or not. If you want to support or oppose it, there's nothing to stop you doing so. Prioryman (talk) 06:44, 17 September 2014 (UTC)


I see that you reverted my linking of Lochalsh to Loch Alsh. I see you also added an entry for Lochalsh, Scotland to the disambiguation page. Would the current article Skye and Lochalsh be a better link for that instead of the redlinked Lochalsh, Scotland, or is there enough information to create a separate article for Lochalsh that would talk about the mainland area before 1975? -Niceguyedc Go Huskies! 16:54, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

It is a right old mess at present, created as part of an editor's persistent attempt to speedy rename a category. In my view, what needs to happen is that 'Lochalsh' should be a new article focussing on the mainland district as I suspect it is the best candidate and the dab page should be 'Lochalsh (disambiguation)' - which it probably should be regardless. Your pointing at Loch Alsh was a valiant attempt but "the neighbouring mainland area of [a body of water]" does not make much sense. 'Skye and Lochalsh' is arguably a better fit for now. There is enough information to create a separate article for Lochalsh, before and after 75. I would attempt to fix all this but I am v. short for time and I have made another wiki-commitment that has priority. Apologies for not explaining this at the time. Happy to discuss further if need be. Ben MacDui 14:03, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Interview for The Signpost[edit]

This message is being sent to you as a member of WikiProject Scotland

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Scotland for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Thanks, Rcsprinter123 (state) @ 16:36, 7 September 2014 (UTC)


I noticed a few days ago that someone added some information about the structure of a Broch to the article and created a new section at the end of the article entitled "Summary". I don't remember seeing a section like that in other articles. The newly added information may contain a few details that are not already in the Broch#Structures section, but I thought I'd just point the addition out to you in case you hadn't seen it and let you judge its appropriateness. CorinneSD (talk) 14:24, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out. At a quick glance I'd say the 'Summary' simply needs to be merged into the 'Structures' section. Its advantage is that it does give a concise overview, which seems to be otherwise lacking. By all means have a crack at this but if you are not so inspired I'll try to get to it in the next week or three - v. busy right now. Ben MacDui 18:31, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
I deleted the last two sentences that were there in "Summary" since they didn't seem to be necessary. I put all the material besides those two sentences, with the reference, at the beginning of the Structures section since this material seemed to touch on several parts of a broch that are covered in more detail later in the section. I added the word "Generally" at the beginning because the way the sentences are worded, they convey the impression that "all brochs are constructed this way", and I know the structure of brochs varies. (Perhaps "As a general rule" would be better than "Generally".) Since you know more about this subject than I do, feel free to make changes.
I wanted to ask you about a sentence that was already in the "Structures" section that puzzled me. It is:
"On average, the walls only survive to a few metres."
I guess this means that, of all the surviving brochs, the largest walls are "only" a few meters thick even though they may have been thicker when they were built. However, to me the sentence is still a little unclear. I think it could be worded so that it is clear to any average reader. CorinneSD (talk) 20:04, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
It means "only survive to a few metres in height." Ben MacDui 07:18, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
Hi both, butting in, I don't know if it's of sufficient interest to add to the article, but the existence of undamaged brochs has been used to quantify the maximum possible peak ground acceleration since they were built to constrain seismic hazard in the northern UK [4]. Mikenorton (talk) 08:26, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the link. The reference to broch towers is on page 21 in section 2.4 "Neotechtonics". I'm sorry that I didn't think of height. I don't know why I only thought of thickness when I saw that. Would you go along with the addition of "in height" after "a few metres"? CorinneSD (talk) 14:48, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
That's fine. Ben MacDui 08:08, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Haakon Sigurdsson[edit]

I was just wondering whether the third-to-last and last sections in the article Haakon Sigurdsson -- "Korsvikaspillet" and "Oehlenschläger tragedy" -- should be separate sections or included as parts of one section, Haakon Sigurdsson in literature. CorinneSD (talk) 01:44, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

I'd say definitely yes. Do you know if the Adam of Bremen text is available on-line - I am always on the look-out for new info to add to Ímar. Ben MacDui 17:27, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
Well, on Questia I just found History of the Archbishops of Hamburg-Bremen, by Adam of Bremen and Francis J. Tscan, published by Columbia University Press in 2002. Also on Questia there is The Papal Monarchy: The Western Church from 1050 to 1250, by Colin Morris, publ. by Clarendon Press in 1991. Adam of Bremen is mentioned on pages 265, 269, and 275. Among other titles is The Discovery of the Baltic: The Reception of a Catholic World-System in the European North (Ad 1075-1225), by Nils Blomkvist, publ. by Brill, 2005. Adam of Bremen is mentioned on a lot of pages. CorinneSD (talk) 21:14, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Page Creation[edit]

I was just wondering how to approach the administrators for page creation. I have added a request for page creation at

I am made to understand that only admins can create a this page again as it was having the promotional content. Now the promotional content is removed and I want to have this page up and running with the basic content.

I am talking about the following page:

Could you please look into this and suggest the move forward.

Dsachdeva123 (talk) 07:19, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

I have nothing to add to the replies you have already received I'm afraid. Ben MacDui 19:01, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Fauna of Scotland[edit]

Since both species are linked to in the same paragraph, I cannot see the point of linking to a dab page, which offers no additional information about either fish. If it must be linked to then it should be a piped link pointing to Vendace (disambiguation), to make clear that the intent is to link to the dab page, else someone else will come along later and fix it. —Xezbeth (talk) 14:52, 1 October 2014 (UTC)


Hello Ben

How can I include a link to Skye's Original website ( on the Skye Wiki page without is being classed as Spam?

Maybe I could write a section giving a bit more information about the website and it's goals?

Please advise.

Cheers. ~ Dave. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaveSkye (talkcontribs) 18:17, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

I think the best you can hope for is to add something like:

to the External links section at the end.

Plese read WP:SPAMMER carefully - and be prepared to defend the inclusion on the talk page i.e. at Talk:Skye. Please note that this is simply advice - I am not specifically offering support for the inclusion. Ben MacDui 14:18, 29 October 2014 (UTC)


I wonder if you can find a geographic map showing the location of the Shetland islands relative to nearby land masses for the article Shetland. See discussion at Talk:Shetland#Need better map image. CorinneSD (talk) 21:12, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

I have made a few minor edits to improve wording and sentence flow. I wanted to ask you about one of those edits. In the third paragraph in Shetland#Economy (the paragraph that starts "Oil and gas..."), I added the word "the" before "Shetland Islands Council" because I think normally it would have the article. However, further down I saw "Shetland Islands Council" used several times with no article. I'm wondering whether you know whether "Shetland Islands Council" is commonly used there without any article. If so, I had probably better remove the "the" that I added. CorinneSD (talk) 23:17, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

There is a technical distinction between "Shetland Islands Council" and "The Moray Council", these being the offical names. However, it is not uncommon to hear references to either with or without a "the". Personally, I prefer to avoid a "the" unless its necessary for some reason and my guess is that this form is the most commonly used, at least in everyday speech, but that really is only a guess. Ben MacDui 08:44, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

List of oldest buildings[edit]

That IP is the same editor as the IPs editing Megalith pushing temples in Malta as the oldest free standing buildings in the world. If you look at [5] and [6] the edit summaries and edits are basically the same. I can't find a source for the Renfrew quote. Smithsonian Journeys (run by the Smithsonian) says[7] "Explore the Megalithic Temples of Malta, which are (according to Professor Lord Renfrew of Cambridge University) among "the oldest free-standing monuments in the world." Megalithic Temples of Malta says " the largely buried Göbekli Tepe complex is now believed to be older." The only source for the Renfrew quote, whatever it actually was, is UNESCO[8] and I have no idea when he said that. This UNESCO source[9] says "the monumental architecture at Göbeklitepe stand out due to their age being the oldest known built sanctuaries" - and I really don't think UNESCO is a reliable source, we need original archaeological aources. The IP has added "The megalithic structures of Malta are the oldest" to what I think is about Europe, and also "(the oldest religious structure in the world)." Which I guess is ok but contradicts the List article, which asserts that the Malta Temples are oldest. The problem with the List article is basically the Renfrew quote. I hope this makes sense. Dougweller (talk) 15:18, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Ah, "Archaeological Fieldwork and Opportunities Bulletin - Page 86 1994 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
Trump, D.H., "Megalithic Architecture in Malta," in The Megalithic Monuments of Western Europe, Colin Renfrew ... 515 FAX: (510) 685-1551 The Mediterranean island of Malta, with its abundance of workable stone, is home to the world's oldest freestanding megalithic architecture"
"Historical Dictionary of Malta - Page 141 Warren G. Berg - 1995 - The Bibliography / 141 guide as any visitor might require in Insight Guides: Malta ( 1 99 1 ). It not only has the usual tourist data, but a ... Colin Renfrew's book, Before Civilization: The Radiocarbon Revolution and Prehistoric Europe (1973), provides proof that the Megalithic Temples in Malta are the oldest structures made by humans which are still standing."
"Malta - Page 303 Paul Murphy - 1999 - ?Snippet view - ?More editions Archaeology Before Civilization by Colin Renfrew. ... the carbon dating of Malta's prehistoric monuments changed the whole theory of human development and proved that Maltese temples are the oldest free-standing buildings known to man."
Whoever wrote the UNESCO page must have used a source like one of those. Of course at that time he didn't know about Göbekli Tepe. Dougweller (talk) 19:46, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Good piece of research. Yes, if I am correctly finishing the above thought, let's remove the Renfrew quote as it is misleading. I doubt there is a clear definition of 'freestanding' involved and in any case the quote in its current location is contradicted by the other contenders and indeed Ġgantija which is 'Maltese'. Ben MacDui 20:23, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks and done. We'll see if the IP hopper comes back. Dougweller (talk) 12:05, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
I tweaked this as you've no doubt seen - it's a cumbersome beast! Ben MacDui 13:24, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Stour soukin[edit]

Some of the words you raised at Talk:Stoor worm#Stoorworm etymology dispute feedback are veering off-topic, but seem a topic close to your heart, so I will paste an excerpt here, followed by my response:

I am certainly not arguing that stoor cannot mean 'large', but it can also mean other things. Its a word my granny used for dust or oose (fluff) and (and this is rather anecdotal) I have been told that stoorsucker is Norwegian for 'vacuum cleaner'. Stoor also means a stiff breeze or a copious stream of blood. Interestingly the same source suggests a "storey-worm" is a slug.--Ben MacDui 11:24, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
Your granny's usage is attested in the SND under verb stour to dust up, stour soukin for "vacuum cleaning".
There is also the Scots noun stowf for dust, given as possible cognate with Dutch stof, dust. The Dutch word for vacuum cleaner is stofzuiger, though incorrectly given as Stoorsucker in an outside comment on a lexicographer's blog on oose.
And støvsuger is the Norwegian word for vaccum cleaner.
Orcadian stoor may mean "stiff breeze" but I see no evidence that connotation should apply specifically to "stoor worm".
The storey-worm="slug" I actually remember noticing myself when I consulted this source, but I discounted it. According to SND, storey is "the grub of the crane-fly or daddy-longlegs" and gives a completely different etymology, so it is irrelevant. --Kiyoweap (talk) 14:01, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

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The Wikipedia Library - ScotlandsPeople - You've got mail[edit]

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Churches in Scotland[edit]

Hi, I was wondering if you'd be interested in creating a few lists for Template:Lists of churches in Scotland by council area? I've started a basic one for Highland. Eventually it would be good to have detailed tabled lists by sub area with pretty pictures! It's a huge task though but worth starting.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:05, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do for Shetland and maybe the Outer Limits. Ben MacDui 17:56, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
And I say céile-dé :b But that's just a tangent. Akerbeltz (talk) 21:51, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
It's all Greek to me mate.
The above two lists are now available in colour etc. I am not over familiar with the labyrinth of Free Churches, continuing or otherwise and I hope I have not committed some dreadful sin by mis-allocating any. Ben MacDui 18:38, 16 December 2014 (UTC)


Hi, I see your comment at the nationality discussion at the Village Pump. Did ye ken that the originator of that is edit warring at James Clerk Maxwell? The discussion started there. (talk) 18:39, 21 December 2014 (UTC)


Hello, Ben MacDui -- Happy holidays to you! I just thought you might be able to address the concerns of two different editors at Talk:Saxons#Sassenach - What was it before 1771? and the comment right before it. CorinneSD (talk) 20:58, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Seasonal greetings[edit]

Christmas Tree 2014.jpg

Merry Christmas and best wishes for a happy, healthy and productive 2015!
Ruhrfisch ><>°° 14:41, 25 December 2014 (UTC)