User talk:Philg88

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I feel that hitting a "Thanks" button is inadequate.[edit]

Hence, I'll be explicit: Thank you for those translations. Pdfpdf (talk) 14:27, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome Pdfpdf. I stumbled across the frustration you expressed elsewhere and thought the translations might help. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 14:31, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────BTW: Similar such translations would (in my undoubtedly biased opinion) be "more than useful" in other articles. Do you have the available time to add such useful information to other articles like, for example, Paracel Islands? Pdfpdf (talk) 14:48, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

@Pdfpdf: Yes check.svg Done  Philg88 talk 06:13, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Faster than a speeding bullet. More powerful than a locomotive. "Look! Up in the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a plane? ...
Yes. I'm impressed. Thank you! Pdfpdf (talk) 12:34, 24 July 2014 (UTC)


I certainly have my work cut out for me now. ;) My small library yielded a couple thousand pages on the Swedish East India Company (SOIC), And as I started digging around it turns out that almost all of the documents from the archives are now digitalized and available on line. They must all be considered primary sources, so maybe not so good for the article, but since you have a special interest in this I thought I could mention it to you. Most of the documents are not transcribed but there is very much text about them so they should be readable with Google translate, and I think you can enjoy just looking at the actual documents. (Plus you have your very own translator just a couple of clicks away.^^) This is the start page of the archive at the Nordic Museum. It contains the documents collected by one Jean Abraham Grill. The digital archive contains 7,000 documents! Just click around a bit and you'll see. The Gothenburg university library has all of the documents from the SOIC digitalized and on line here. Just click on the "digital kopia" (digital copy) to access them, and you'll find beauties like this one. ("Flash" is required.) I entered "Canton" in the search box and could find several diaries written by captains and also things like this "Ships chaplain C.C. Ströms papers, no. 1166: French translation of an edict by the Mandarine Fou yune-Lhy to the English consul in Canton." And on this page there are links to even more museums with digitalized documents about the SOIC. Overwhelming to say the least. If I really wanted to this article could quite easily become one of the largest on the EngWiki. But I'll just take it one bit at the time, and hope you can provide some good language later.^^ Cheers, w.carter-Talk 22:52, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Wow kompis, those are some awesome sources! I should have known that the Swedes would have digitised their archives methodically and thoroughly :) When I get some some time I will have a proper look - a quick scan of that French document (a language I can read, thankfully) proved most interesting. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 06:36, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Glad you like it. I'm hooked myself. Many of the documents reads like some western (Eastern?). A cross between Hell on Wheels ("Hell on waves?") and Dances with Wolves ("Dances with Dragons?"). Just a note in case you think your Google translator has gone mad. The Swedish word for "east" is "öst". The letter Ö is pronounced like the "œu" in the French word for eggs, "œufs". In English the closest letter is "U". But, when inserted in a context "öst" looses the dots and becomes "ost" with the different letter "O" instead, like in "Ostindiska Kompaniet" (East India Company) in the 17th century spelled "Ostindiska Companiet" hence SOIC. This word "ost" also means "cheese" in Swedish (don't ask me why) same spelling, exact same pronunciation. This is naturally the base of many Swedish maritime jokes. So do not be alarmed if the translation of "Ostindiska Kompaniet" turns out "the Cheesy India Company". It's just our weird language. Cheese, w.carter-Talk 09:26, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
I also saw that the diary of Colin Campbell has been made into a book in English. I'm not familiar with Google books, but it seems to exist there. A hard copy is also available at one of the second-hand bookshops where I shop. They ship abroad if you are interested. Best, w.carter-Talk 16:00, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
It looks like a nice book kompis, but at a hundred quid it's a bit outside my budget range! Cheers,  Philg88 talk 05:54, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Mine too.:-/ I have to stick to libraries. About a hundred pages into the book pile, I've done some editing at SOIC. Just 1.900 more pages to go. Best, w.carter-Talk 06:54, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

My friend, on my way to work I realized how snobbish my pre-previous post sounded. I do shop there, but at the dirt cheap section where gems can be found. The site is a collected site for all secondhand book dealers in Sweden, including the private ones with just a bunch of books in a closet. Like, a couple of weeks ago I put in a request and The impossible-to-find, pristine, leather bound with gilded pages, 1935 biography on John Bauer is now mine for three dollars. I can now expand the JB article with rare material whenever I want! (that is...later) :) Best, w.carter-Talk 08:33, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Not snobbish at all kompis, just an observation. BTW, for an interesting if light-hearted article read this. Best,  Philg88 talk 09:03, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Face-grin.svg Hilarious! Thank You, it brightened up my evening. I'll be sure to pass it on to various friends. That is, friends who I otherwise have surreal talks with on subject like this. Cat lovers all. Best, w.carter-Talk 19:09, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
P.S. I was thinking, maybe the Swedes aren't the only ones with good digital archives, so I took a look at the other countries/companies as well. This might be old hat to you, but the Dutch have made a beautiful presentation of documents related to their travels here. I can not read a word of Dutch but all you have to do is click on the dots and then on some tabs and you get wonderful original maps and pictures. The page is pretty self-explanatory. The search continues.:) (!) And I just realized that there is an In-English-Button. (!) w.carter-Talk 20:22, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Another excellent find, kompis, well done!  Philg88 talk 06:19, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

@Philg88: Finds of the day: An English journal from a journey, 1735-1739, on a Swedish ship written by aforementioned Colin Campbell. A pass in English for one of the members of SOIC. And finally, how is your Latin?^^ That's all for now. Cheers, w.carter-Talk 02:29, 27 July 2014 (UTC) ────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Thanks kompis, that journal is an awesome find. It's a shame it doesn't cover what happened when the ship arrived in Canton. Information on trading conditions in China during that early period would make an excellent addition to the Canton System article. The pass for Claes Grill & Sons is also interesitng - do you know anything more about this firm? Did they set up operations in the Swedish Factory in Canton? Finally, the Latin document are the Letters patent granted by King Frederick of Sweden to a merchant called Henry König. I haven't read the whole thing but basically its about granting him trade rights. Best,  Philg88 talk 07:12, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Tjaba (very informal greeting^^) kompis! From what I've read so far the Grill family was one of the major families/traders associated with the SOIC. I think there is more about them in my next book. If you look at the top of this section you will find one Grill that I mentioned leaving 7,000 documents to the Nordic Museum. Many other describe the trade at Canton quite well and in detail. As a matter of fact I just read a section of it some hours ago. (We're having a heat wave here and I could not sleep. Well, when you live where 0-3°C is called nice and balmy, 30-33°C is unbearable...) The trade is not described from a sophisticated point of view. Just the observations of some crude barbarians out to make a fast buck (if 2-3 year at sea can be called fast), like how they were treated and their fascination for the Chinese. But they must have been liked since they befriended one of the mandarins, Poan Key-qua (the spelling varies), who even came to Gothenburg and stayed for a couple of months. His portrait is one of the treasures at the Gothenburg Museum (now in the old SOIC house). I think it's safe to say that the Swedes were the mutts of the trade. But sometimes mutts are easier to like than haughty dogs with pedigree.
I will put all of the information I find in various articles, there is just so much of it!! I wonder how much there would have been if most of it had not been burned. And I want to read as much as I can before starting to write. I have also noticed some discrepancies between the books, and I want to be aware of them when I write. And maybe confirm things with some third source. I did that when writing the notes about the wharfs in the article. If you look at Note "n", you'll see that the SOIC books differ but a book about the wharf (which I had to find) settled it. Hope I'm not too picky, but since I don't know this subject from Adam I can't go on hunches to get things right. Swedes may have been small fish in the global trade, but in Sweden the trade was of enormous importance since it literary built Gothenburg, and is therefore well documented. Cheers, w.carter-Talk 10:09, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Correct spelling may be Phuankhequa. I Googled it and came up with Google books The Hong Merchants of Canton: Chinese Merchants in Sino-Western Trade, 1684-1798 where the Swedes are described as "childish". So I was right about my "mutt" assessment. :) w.carter-Talk 12:44, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

And I saw that you had done some CE on the article. Thank you! But do not trouble yourself too much with it just yet. The article was a bit of a mess when I found it. So far I have not contributed any text to the "main" area. My first job have just been to tidy up, structure, and make it ready to be expanded. There were (as always in articles written by Swedes) not enough references, the language was appalling, some facts are just wrong, etc. Parts of the text will be replaced, corrected or re-written as I find more facts. So save your energy for later to correct my mistakes instead. Again, w.carter-Talk 13:24, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
Comments on copyediting noted kompis, thanks. I hope that Claes Grill & Sons emerges as a non-redlink article emerges from your work. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 15:01, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
So, "no preassure at all", heh...Face-tongue.svg Well, this should keep me busy for the rest of the year.Face-wink.svg I reverted one of your CE's (Gasp! I dared!) se talk page for our fuzzy language. Cheers, w.carter-Talk 15:13, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── No problem with the revert W.carter. A strange language indeed - there is no similar dual/allusive usage in English. You might want to add "(sic)" after the word "on" to prevent someone else making the same correction in the future.  Philg88 talk 15:22, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done - I joke around a lot, but I honestly really like working with this project, and I am so grateful for all your tips and guidance. Thank you. For now, best w.carter-Talk 15:43, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Oliver Evans[edit]

Hi Philg88,

A little while ago you interacted a bit with the work I was doing on Oliver Evans. I've put it up for GA but it's been sitting there since April and I was hoping you might be able to do the review since I'd like to put it up ultimately for FA status. Only if you have the time of course! Cheers, Unus Multorum (talk) 09:24, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Unus Multorum and thanks for the message. I'll take the review as Oliver was an interesting chap :). I've updated the relevant pages with the review status but please be aware that I'm a bit tied up with a Guild of Copy Editors drive at the moment so you won't see much progress until the end of the month. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 09:39, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
@Unus Multorum: We're almost there apart from some minor (I hope) sourcing issues. Great article!  Philg88 talk 00:28, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for all your work on this review, I really appreciate it, let me know if I can return the favour at some point. Unus Multorum (talk) 01:09, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

@Unus Multorum: You're welcome. As you've probably seen on your talk page the article is now listed at the GA page. Best,  Philg88 talk 04:18, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ying Wa Primary School[edit]

Hi. 'Redirect' is a perfectly acceptable alternative to deletion as you correctly mentioned by citing OUTCOMES, and as described at WP:DELETION (a policy), so there is no need to bring the articles to AfD if that is the action you reccommend. Feel free to do the redirect yourself. It is a far less bureaucratic action and will never entrain criticism if at some stage the redirect is reverted. That would be the moment for AfD. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:01, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Kudpung and thanks for the message. I agree that there is no real need for an AfD submission where a bold redirect will do. That said, it's important that editors, especially new ones, understand why these articles get redirected to avoid potential revert wars that waste time. I rarely submit redirect proposals to AfD for these type of articles, but rather tend to rubber stamp the ones that turn up there. I suspect that over time the process will balance itself out as the usual consensus becomes apparent and such articles are no longer created in the first place. Best,  Philg88 talk 06:15, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your considered relpy, Phil. You may be interested in a current discussion on my talk page. Whether you agree with it or not your comments would be most appreciated. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:25, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the invitation Kudpung. I'd be happy to comment but I don't really have anything to add to your existing arguments. I agree with you that we need to find a way to stop AfD getting snarled up with unnecessary submissions but by the same token I don't think Epeefleche is acting in anything other than good faith. I will watch with interest to see where the discussion ends up. Best,  Philg88 talk 07:15, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
I've never contended for a moment that Epee is not acting in GF, but sometimes GF actions may not be quite appropriate for the smooth management of the 'pedia. Anyway, his work serves only as a catalyst for discussion on what could be undertaken to alleviate the burden on AfD, and best inform other editors of the way school articles are generally handled. Do feel free to comment there even if it is only to add some balance to the discussion. and help us to formulate a project we can offer to the broader community for discussion. Cheers. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:24, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
...Hmm... Let me give this issue some further thought before I comment. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 07:47, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Re: A belated welcome![edit]

Thank you for the warm welcome,bro. It's very nice. And thank you for answering my question in Teahouse once again!--HKM (talk) 14:47, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

不客气,我真开心帮给您。 祝好, 菲利普, a.k.a.  Philg88 talk 15:29, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

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delhi map[edit]

Wrt these two maps File:Delhi location map.png and File:Location map India Delhi EN.svg, you have edited Module:Location map/data/India Delhi to change map but kept the coordinates same. But these two maps look slightly offset, so coordinates of these two maps cant be same. I would be happy if you could correct coordinates of the new map in the module. Anyway the difference looks very less so even if it is not corrected, it shouldnt change location of much error offset. Wantsallanger (talk) 03:07, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

@Wantsallanger: Yes check.svg Done  Philg88 talk 05:12, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

GOCE new template, category, etc.[edit]

Let me know when it is done. --DThomsen8 (talk) 00:46, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

@Dthomsen8: Sure - should be sometime next week I hope.  Philg88 talk 05:53, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Good work. I will spread the word at Wikimania 2014 in London. I leave Phila. today.--DThomsen8 (talk) 15:36, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Safe journey or as we say in Chinese 一路平安.  Philg88 talk 15:50, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
How are you doing on this effort? No rush, just wondering. --DThomsen8 (talk) 07:01, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
@Dthomsen8: In progress - bit of a hiatus due to migration of templates to modules (Lua), under control though.  Philg88 talk 07:17, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
@Dthomsen8: I've now created {{GOCE pending}} and left a note here for other editors to comment. Best,  Philg88 talk 07:33, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Moved to User:Philg88/Barnstars

Thanks, 001Jrm, that was indeed "random" - I didn't do a lot! Cheers,  Philg88 talk 05:56, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

July GOCE drive[edit]

Barnstars move to User:Philg88/Barnstars

Chinese Pavilion[edit]

Hello my friend. WOW! That is one impressive tower of CE-awards! Knowing you, you probably deserve twice as many. :) I'm starting with the last book now, and I realized that the Chinese Pavilion at Drottningholm will have to be mentioned somewhere in the SOIC. A look at said article left me unimpressed, so I expanded it. It's about art and I've visited the place a number of times so I knew most of it already, so no big deal. If you like you can cast a brief look at it, I think you might enjoy it as a humorous attempt by China-besotted Swedes to build something. I left some notes at the talk page, plus to my considerable surprise it had been overlooked at the Drottningholm Palace, so I put a sentence there plus a "main". Not sure if a corresponding "main" should be placed at the pavilion. A CE might be in order, but if you would like to do that, it can wait until you recover from the CE-drive, say... around Christmas? I just wanted a nice article to link to. I'll get back to the Grills soon enough, just wanted some light work to relax with today. Best, w.carter-Talk 13:59, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Hey kompis, good to hear from you. As you know I've done some copyediting on the pavilion article and it should be a bit better now. Sorry about having to put "Canton Street, Drottningholm" in full in the "Canton Street" section but the bare name is currently a redirect, which breaks the {{ill}} template I used for the cross-wiki link. That template is very smart, since it will automatically make itself vanish once the page is translated without the need for an editor to do anything. In this case it will need a manual pipe, so for now it will look ugly. Keep up the good work! Best,  Philg88 talk 07:53, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
You are, as usual, too kind in making such fast ce's. :) The {{ill}} thing was one of the first things I learned about here. I have not used it, since I prefer to make articles rather than red links. A apologize for my fellow countrymen calling streets and parts of towns names they have no business using, and messing up the Wiki. Thanks for straighten things out. When I wrote the thing I put the Canton community with '' since I was unsure of the status of the name. You changed it to "Canton". I have since learned that the part of Stockholm really is called Canton. Just like parts of London are called Camden, Soho or Hammersmith. And I'm at a bit of a loss of how to write it now. One way would be to use the modern Swedish name Kanton. The Swedish article is probably written by some history buff who used the C. It's a never-ending thing here with names, old spelling vs new. The same thing is going on with my town, Visby vs Wisby. It's a matter of style. Like if you live in the area you want the spelling to be Canton, but if you want to find it on Google maps or get a building permit from some state department you use the Kanton. Advise? Thanks again, w.carter-Talk 08:44, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Well, on English Wikipedia decisions like this are normally based on WP:COMMONNAME, kompis. In this case, because we're talking about a Swedish name, that's a bit problematic. I'm not sure if there is a Swedish equivalent of the Google Ngram tool, but if there is I would use that. Best,  Philg88 talk 12:10, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────As usual you point me in the right direction, and things turn out well.:) I've looked through all official sites and the right name is Kanton and Kantongatan. Only people living there and the SweWiki use the old spelling. You can see the proof here (hope the link works, it takes a while for it to upload the right place). For weird addresses see the official address of the Chinese Pavilion: Kina Slott, Kina, Kantongatan, 178 93 Drottningholm, Sverige. ^^ I also learned some useful things about official names of places in Sweden. Towns, companies and stuff that were known outside Sweden before we "went global" (about 40 years ago) usually have another name in English. Like Göteborg — Gothenborg. And I saw a heated discussion here about Riksdag vs "Riksdagen" not so long ago. For the rest the spelling is the same in Swedish and other languages. People today know that there are other letters in some alphabets than A–Z. This goes for streets as well see: Strandvägen eg. So no need to bother with translations, I've used Kantongatan in the article, and this simplifies a lot. You have really good instincts! Many old towns and companies are fighting to get their "real" name back. Skanska ditched their ring over the a, the "å", some years ago and now deeply regrets it. Gothenburg is taking the whole thing a step further: Why stop at reclaiming the name, why not make it "cyber". They are currently campaigning to flip the ö, making the spelling Go:teborg instead of Göteborg. So, long explanation, but since you are knee-deep in translations, maps, different languages, etc. I thought you might find such trivia amusing. Cheers, w.carter-Talk 18:33, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

I think you missed your vocation as a lexicographer :)  Philg88 talk 07:11, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Card carrying member of the Most Annoying Society of Investigating Wikipedians, sir. w.carter-Talk 08:25, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Translate from Chinese wikipedia[edit]

Would you be willing to work on translating the articles here if Madalibi is not able to?- User_talk:Madalibi#Qing_articles_which_should_be_translated_from_Chinese_wikipedia.Rajmaan (talk) 18:10, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Hey Rajmaan, thanks for the message. I don't want to tread on Madalibi's toes if he has this work in progress so let's see what he says before doing anything. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 18:22, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi Phil! I replied to Rajmaan's message on my talk page. Cheers, Madalibi (talk) 07:16, 5 August 2014 (UTC) Madalibi (talk) 07:16, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

England at the time of Aethelred c. 910[edit]

Philg88, your map appears prominently in the recently featured article Æthelred, Lord of the Mercians. Aside from the general high quality of the map, I noticed what may be an error in how a bit of continental Europe was labeled in the lower right of the map. It was labeled Fresia, by which you may have intended Frisia, but Frisia did not extend that far south. Possibly the area should be labeled Frankia or West Francia. Thanks! Nesbit (talk) 00:18, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Nesbit and thanks for letting me know about this. That was how that area was labelled in one of the original source maps so it may well be incorrect. To be on the safe side, I've removed it altogether since it's not really germane to the map topic anyway. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 06:27, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

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A question about location maps[edit]

I see that you are active at the map request page. I recently added a request, but I wanted to explain that it isn't so much a "please make this map for me" as it is a help question - I'd like to use a map which already exists as a location map. I'm missing what has to be done, and willing to do so, but hoping for a pointer to the steps needed. I tried a search, but failed. I believe I need to identify the four corners of the map as coordinates, I suspect there is an easy way to do that, but I don;t know what it is, and I think I need to create a template using those coords. I think I've seen that you done some similar cases, so I am hoping you can just tell me what is needed, and I can do it.--S Philbrick(Talk) 13:42, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi there and thanks for the message. First off, you should be aware that templates are deprecated and that new location maps are now created in the module space. There is a tutorial here. As you correctly identify, the key is to identify the corners of the map. The easiest way to do this is with OpenStreetMap's export function. Once you have the general location on screen, select the export function from the menu bar, at which point it will probably complain that the area is too large. Either way, click on the "manually select a different area" under the coordinates shown, then move the corners of the displayed pink rectangle to where you want them. You now have the "box" of coordinates, which you can plug into your new module. Hope this helps but if not let me know. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 15:16, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick reply. I may not get to it right away, as I have to prepare for some all day classes, but I will try this soon.--S Philbrick(Talk) 15:20, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
You're welcome.  Philg88 talk 15:27, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


Thank you for fixing the article. :) It is now moved. (Yayh!) I have noticed that you from time to time like to do DYK's, something that I am totally unfamiliar with. I think this has to be done just after a new article is moved into main. Since you are as much involved in this article as I am, feel free to do one of those if you want to. Best, w.carter-Talk 08:25, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Hey Kompis, you're welcome. As for the DYK, I'm not sure if there is anything "hooky" enough for a submission. Some of the reviewers at DYK are fanatical about referencing and I'm not sure that even if we could pick an interesting fact that we'd be able to provide the necessary citations. It's up to you if you want to go ahead (and I'll help of course if needed) but the clock is ticking and you have 5 days to qualify the article for the DYK window. Best,  Philg88 talk 09:22, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
(watching) You have seven days now between creation and nomination, and when you nominate the article doesn't have to be all ready, - some get improved in weeks after the nom. Citations are needed, but again, you can add some later. Which article, btw? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:42, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the input Gerda, the article in question is Puankhequa. Best,  Philg88 talk 09:57, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
The article looks good to me, and I think his "European factories" are interesting ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:03, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Thanks, but I think I'll pass on this one. Just wanted to mention it.:) Btw, the "|ref=harv" you added to the ref is new to me. What is that? Something I have to add in other places? w.carter-Talk 11:21, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

If you use Harvard referencing (which includes {{sfn}}) then you need to provide an anchor point for the citation, which is what "ref=harv" does. You will only see errors caused by the omission of the parameter if you have this installed.  Philg88 talk 12:19, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Gerda Arendt: While we're on the subject, can you see a DYK for Henry Lansdell? I can't but he did do some unusual things.  Philg88 talk 15:52, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Indeed ;) - just enter the source after distribution of religious tracts in Siberia's prisons, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:04, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: Yes check.svg Done Sufficient do you think?  Philg88 talk 22:10, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Nice! Please a ref for the last sentence in the first paragraph, and projects on the talk. Will nominate after sleep ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:21, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Got to be done if only for the photo (pictured dressed a knight in flowery trousers; far out, ye knave)Belle (talk) 23:27, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
@Belle: I must admit that I hadn't noticed the far out trousers. Henry seems to have had a penchant for dressing up - his books are peppered with pictures of him in all sorts of strange attire.  Philg88 talk 05:30, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Gerda Arendt: Projects added. I'm not sure where you want that extra reference. Do you mean where it says "He established the Clergyman's Magazine in 1875, which he edited until 1883"?  Philg88 talk 05:30, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Exactly. Reviewers look at the ends of paragraphs, - if a fact has no ref, put it in the middle ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:32, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done Thanks for pointing out the omission. Best,  Philg88 talk 12:38, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
nominated - I like DYK mentioning prison, see my user page ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:54, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the nomination. I think that this is the first article I've created that had a prison based DYK hook so don't hold your breath for the next one ;)  Philg88 talk 13:51, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Gerda Arendt: Heads up for you: Mostafa Salameh is a new article by a new user and not everyone climbs Everest. DYK?  Philg88 talk 04:31, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Will nominate ;) - no more this week, pleasantly busy in RL - please do something about archiving this page, at least get rid of the bot notices, - BracketBot is not in love with you (but with me, and then left, sob) ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:42, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. Gerda. I'll trim Bracketbot's enthusiasm. I've no idea why he likes me so much but he keeps coming back :) Cheers,  Philg88 talk 08:50, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

My so-so results creating a location module[edit]

I tried creating a locator module.


It sort of worked, on the other hand, it failed miserably.

Duluth looks fine, but that's not where Boston is located.

I need to point out that my immediate goal is only tangential to Wikipedia, I am trying to clean up my sandbox image but I also have long term plans to create maps in List_of_NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament_venues; putting all arenas on a full USA map will be too cluttered, so I would like to create some regions, at least in the Northeast.

When I looked at the map I am using:

File:USA Northeast.svg

I think I see the problem. The editor did a crop of File:Usa edcp location map.svg but it looks to me like the crop is closer to Maine than it is to Minnesota. I don't know whether the editor did a rectangular crop but at an angle, or didn't and should have.

I also note that the underlying image has 807 errors. Should that be addressed by someone?

Rather than try to work with the Northeast map, I thought perhaps I should start over. What I really need is a map that include Maine in upper right, PA on west and DE on south.

The whole value borders are:

  • N 48
  • W -81
  • E -66
  • S 38
Temp Northeast Map.JPG

What's involved in creating such a map? (I can create the locator module)

Does one start with File:Usa edcp location map.svg in Inkscape and do a crop? Can one specify coordinates in Inkscape or is it done by eye? Is there a better way?

I'd like to see how much of this I can do myself, but if you can point me in the right direction, as you did for the module, I'll see if I can manage it myself.--S Philbrick(Talk) 15:57, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Sphilbrick, looks like you've been busy!
  • When you say 807 errors, I'm not sure what you mean. There are a number of W3C validation errors for both maps but nothing like that number.
  • Making an SVG map from scratch based on geo-referenced data is not a trivial task. You need to be very familiar with tools like Maperitive and Adobe Illustrator (or Inkscape, but I'm not overly familiar with that).
  • AFAIK there is no way to relate co-ordinates to an SVG in Inkscape, which is why you need Maperitive to do the conversion from the raw data obtained from OpenStreetMap.

I'd be happy to create a map based on your co-ordinates but it might take me a while as I have a ton of other stuff on at the moment. Let me know whatever you decide to do. Best,  Philg88 talk 16:19, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
I'm going to look into Maperitive. Odds are, I'll be back begging, but let me check that out first.--S Philbrick(Talk) 16:24, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
I downloaded Maperitive, and managed to create an .svg map but I didn't see how to map it look like other locator maps. I'm guessing there is a set of rendering rules to convert the OSM to the standard location map formats, but I didn't see how to do that, and the documentation is quite weak. I think what I will do is put in a request at Map requests, and if someone else gets to it first, great, if not, whenever you can get to it. If it turns out that my guess is correct, and you have to create a set of rendering rules, I'd love to have the file, as I think I could generate maps of other areas of the country with those rules.--S Philbrick(Talk) 20:51, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Sphilbrick: That's where the Illustrator/Inkscape stuff comes in for colouring polygons. You could also use JOSM (which, I'm afraid involves another steep learning curve) to pick out the OSM relations for state boundaries etc. and then change their admin level so they are rendered at the requisite Maperitive zoom level - CAVEAT please don't upload the data to OSM if you do this. As I said previously, scratch SVG maps aren't a trivial task (hint: volunteers needed) and I'm not sure that writing a set of rendering rules for Maperative would be any better than what can be done now. I'll keep an eye on your request at the map lab and pick it up if no one else does. Best,  Philg88 talk 21:06, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


How are you?? I thought you are one of my best Wikifriend, but it seems that you totally forgot me. I'm not quite active as I was once (for some real life reasons). You haven't even have mailed me once before running for RfA?? I may never know that you are running for adminship if someone haven't told me. This is not what I expected from you. I was the first person to ask you for adminship and now you forgot me. Anyway, I'm 100% sure your RfA will go in the right direction and you will pass without any trouble. My support was with you and always will be with you, good luck, god bless. Jim Carter (from public cyber) 18:24, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Jim, this is unfair. Philg could NOT email you or notify you, that would be considered canvassing (soliciting votes) which is a definite no-no here. --MelanieN (talk) 18:28, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict):Hey Jim Carter - Public, of course I haven't forgotten you. I'm not going to canvass your vote via email, that would be a breach of the rules (as I see MelanieN has now pointed out). Take care and keep in touch. All the best,  Philg88 talk 18:34, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
    • (edit conflict) Melanie Neee... not like that I know about WP:CANVASS. I might have co-nominated you, Phil (I have seen some RfAs where non admins have seconded an RfA. ex- Bgwhite) if you have told me before running for RfA. Bad luck for me but Melanie, please please please don't forget to mail me before you run for the tools, I don't want to miss that one. Cheers, Jim Carter (from public cyber) 18:46, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
      • LOL! Thanks, Jim, but don't hold your breath! 0;-D --MelanieN (talk) 18:56, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


Hello! Sorry to bother you. John Bauer (illustrator) has finally come to the top on the CE list. A relatively new user has begun a CE of it. I am a bit concerned though, since the user has so far rewritten large parts of it, entered new, unreferenced facts into the leade, included contradictory information in the text and seems unfamiliar with the WP style regarding biographies. I think it looks rather messy, but I may be wrong. Could you just take a quick look and see if it's ok to do like this. Best, w.carter-Talk 11:26, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

I'll certainly take a look kompis but apropos our previous conversation I'm not going to edit the article to avoid a COI with the future GA review. I'll let you know what I think. Best,  Philg88 talk 17:06, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Now I'm totally confused. The editor appears to have reverted to your version without giving a reason and I see no talk page evidence of a discussion after (s)he left a note on JB's talk page saying the copyedit had been done. ????  Philg88 talk 17:20, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

The article have been sitting peacefully waiting in line for a long time now. I made some edits of mistakes that became evident when I got the scripts from you. Then, finally it came near the top of the list at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests. My last edit was that on 20:56 14 August 2014. And today this editor started to make changes to the article. S(he) rewrote the entire leade and included some new un-sourced material there. Then stared to move around the pics, inserting new facts contradicting facts already in the article and enlarge a pic to abnormal size. I finally had enough and placed a note at the CE request page for the editor to cease, which s(he) did. None of my edits have been reverted by the user. I have now got a note from this editor on my talk page saying s(he) has reverted his/hers edits and is waiting for my reply. I really don't know what to do. The article was this close to being ready for a GA review, and now this happened. An edit war. The last thing it needed. I'm a bit low right now but I will try to leave an answer to the editor in a civilized manner. It might be for the best if we abandoned the plan of having you doing the GA review and do the CE instead. Then at least I know it will be done right. I can always place it in line as a GA nominee. Best, w.carter-Talk 19:05, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Looks like you have the situation under control by talking to the editor in question. I'll keep an eye on things so don't worry, JB will make it to GA.  Philg88 talk 19:43, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your support and encouragement. I'm taking deep breaths to keep my wa but I was beginning to despair. I'm working on a lengthy answer for the JB talk page now. Life... w.carter-Talk 20:00, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

An error[edit]

Regarding File:Mississippi Delta SVG Map.svg, Memphis is not the state capital of Tennessee... Nashville is. Rcsprinter123 (banter) @ 21:55, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh dear, thanks for pointing that out Rcsprinter123. I will fix the error. I can only blame it on Paul Simon or possibly one of the source maps I used.  Philg88 talk 22:03, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
@Rcsprinter123: Yes check.svg Done  Philg88 talk 00:50, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Oh, for shame! :) I bet you do not even know the capital of Antarctica! (And do not trust that penguin song. Penguins know nothing of geography. Their areas of expertise are regurgitation of small, silvery fish, and the staring contest.) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:29, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
I was reaching for the noose on account of my twice exposed geographic ignorance when it suddenly struck me ... hang on, Antarctica doesn't have a capital. As for singing penguins, I'd advise you to go a bit easier on the baijiu. :)  Philg88 talk 00:16, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Tell me honestly, did you have to look up the Antarctica thing? (I did.) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:22, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Face-blush.svg ... Yes. I no longer trust my own knowledge without checking Wikipedia first.  Philg88 talk 00:32, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Just for fun[edit]

...or maybe I should write an article about it? :) Did You Know... that Sweden is sometimes called the Japan of Europe? We also take our shoes of indoors, bow when we greet each other and regard nature as having a soul of its own. (Apropos wa, JB, conflict resolution and the rest.) There is even an ethnological paper on the subject. (tsk tsk...) Hokkaido? No, Gotland. Cheers, w.carter-Talk 23:15, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Well. kompis, I think that this sort of comparison is part of human nature - I've heard Shanghai is the Paris of the east; Hainan is the Hawaii of China and probably a couple of others that I've forgotten. I'm not sure what you'd call the article, but if you can satisfy the notability guideline and it complies with the rest of Wikipedia's requirements then why not? :) Alternatively, there is always Culture of Sweden Best,  Philg88 talk 04:27, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Just kidding.:) And Culture of Sweden is yet another Swe article without refs... Why am I not surprised? It's downright embarrassing being a Swede around here. Best, w.carter-Talk 08:27, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Jervois Street[edit]

This removal is not a new one: I have routinely and since several years removed Wikiproject China banners from purely local Hong Kong articles, since I consider that it is logically a parent project of Wikiproject HK, and that, like categories, having Category:China and Category:Hong Kong in the same article would be redundant. Your comment is the first one that I have for such a removal. If I understand what you mean with "sensitivity", then I believe that "sensitive" people would appreciate the expression of such a parentage of projects. Nevertheless, if you believe that some people will feel more secure or that whatever view of the world they have will be better represented by having the two banners, than let's have the two banners. Underwaterbuffalo (talk) 03:59, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the message Underwaterbuffalo. My reasoning is a reflection of the "One country, two systems" philosophy apropos China and Hong Kong. I don't feel that strongly about either way, but given that we have PRC/Taiwan issues elsewhere with some heavy POV advocates on both sides, I think it's better if Wikipedia stays on the fence and doesn't imply that China has completely absorbed HK by having only a single banner—I know that sounds ridiculous but some people feel very strongly about this sort of nuance. As an aside, further investigation also shows that the addition of the WPCHINA banner is done by a bot (I'm guessing by detecting Chinese characters and the presence of a stub template). Cheers,  Philg88 talk 04:26, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
From my fairly long experience editing HK related articles, I can tell that such POV pushing for PRC/HK issues is pretty much absent from the English Wikipedia. I would be even quite surprised if someone came here and tried to advocate something along the lines that HK is not part of China. There was an editor very long time ago, who was willing to portray HK as a "country", but the consensus against this point of view has naturally been prevalent since. These "WP China" banners were added by a bot, and I also believe that it was more based on practical aspects than political. So I have rather considered their removal as a mere correction of some bot errance, and again, noone has ever even commented on this. Underwaterbuffalo (talk) 04:46, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Fair comment. As you you say, this is a bot issue not a human one. If removing the banner becomes a problem in the future we can deal with it as and when. BTW, sterling efforts on improving the HK road articles, well done. As you know, my view was in favour of redirects for non-major routes but there are certainly some worth keeping as stand alone articles based on your new sources. Best,  Philg88 talk 04:54, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. Regarding the redirects, I agree that they make sense in some cases, but then the List of streets and roads in Hong Kong article could be improved by including some of the information contained in the redirected articles, like for instance the origin of the name and the Chinese version of the name. Underwaterbuffalo (talk) 05:05, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, you're right. I'd like to see something along the lines of Private housing estates in Hong Kong with a column to add notes like "Named after X" etc. A page move might also be in order to dump the "List of" in the current title. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 05:16, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

A question[edit]

Hey Phil, I have a question since you're running for adminship thought of asking you, let there be two editors, X editor and Y editor. Both of them were editing and improving an article, X editor thought to change its citation style from {{cite}} to {{Sfn}}. And X editor started changing it being WP:Bold. Suddenly Y editor reverted the change with an edit summary WP:CITEVAR and WP:CONSENSUS. X editor started a thread for consensus at it's talk page. Y editor was having a disagreement with X editor. Although the article looks like a mess and have heavy citation clutter with {{Cite}} but still Y editor supported using {{Cite}} with reasons like, Newbies will not understand how {{Sfn}} works. Suddenly another newbie came in and supported editor X. Y editor almost confused and can't handle the situation, he left messages at two admins talk page (Both the admins were good friends of Y editor) and started calling them at the articles talk page for discussion although both the admins have no relation with the article (never have edited that page). Y editor explained one of the admin at the admins talk page that X editor is an inexperienced newbie (X editor helped 1 article to meet GA, 1 article to meet FL and have started 3 DYKs). One of the admin came and took the side of Y editor and accused X editor for WP:BATTLE. I have tried my best to explain the case, now the question arises who is correct, X editor or Y editor?? Didn't Y editor actually canvassed when he called those unrelated admins (admin interven was not required)?? Is it correct to call X editor inexperienced newbie when he have done some good works like DYK, FL, GA?? Did X editor used common sense?? Jim Carter (from public cyber) 06:35, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Jim. Seeing that someday you wish to become an administrator, this is an ideal matter for you to use your judgment skills on. You are well experienced now, so this is perfect. Take plenty of time. Think about it. When you are ready, you tell me what you would do as an administrator. I look forward to hearing what you have to say. And don't rush. Consider all of the options.  Philg88 talk 08:58, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Let me think... Now, first of all X editor did a mistake. According to WP:CITEVAR changing citation style needs WP:CONSENSUS which in this case X editor initially haven't got. Secondly {{Cite}} and {{Sfn}} format are equally accepted on Wikipedia. The revert by Y editor and it's edit summary was correct and to the point. X editor was correct but the reason provided by Y editor was also correct if the article gets heavy traffic from newbies. Instead of forcing for a total change, X editor must try using tool which helps editing when there is a WP:OVERKILL in the article. Thirdly, According to WP:CANVASS the messages to the admins talk page can't be called canvassing until the messages use unneutral tone. It is also possible that Y editor is not familiar with the works done by X editor so he said "inexperienced" assuming good faith. I will judge the language used by X editor in the discussion and if X editor continues to disagree with the consensus and try to change the citation style against consensus then it can be called WP:BATTLE per WP:IDHT. Now, answering the questions.
  1. According to me Y editor is correct. But if at least two editor support X editor then I would recommend opening a WP:RfC if they feel a more broader consensus is required.
  2. No he haven't canvassed if his messages were neutral and I also assume that the input by the admin were honest and impartial.
  3. Since X editor was involved in creating DYKs, GAs and FLs so calling them "newbie" is not really fair. But I just AGF that Y editor is not familiar with his work.
I would like to know what you think about my judgement. I tried my best to answer. Jim Carter (from public cyber) 08:40, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Jim That was an excellent script you linked for segregating references - it will be very useful.
As for your original question, your analysis is fine but there is nothing in the dispute AFAICS that requires either admin intervention or action - it can all be resolved on the talk page by the editors concerned. I suppose if X editor felt strongly enough about being called an "inexperienced newbie" (s)he could take it to WP:ANI but I doubt they'd get very far and it might even boomerang. Best  Philg88 talk 10:08, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
See the question once more, Y editor called Admins when he felt he can't handle the situation maybe because he thought that X editor might WP:EDITWAR. Yes, X editor will get a boomerang if they report it at AIN. Since X editor has started changing the citation style without consensus, that means he lacks the understanding of the policy WP:CITEVAR hence still inexperienced but not newbie because he worked in starting DYKs etc. Btw what would have been your thoughts if I run for adminship?? Face-tongue.svg Jim Carter (from public cyber) 10:28, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
Well, Jim maybe you should wait until you encounter an actual similar situation and see what happens. As for you running for adminship, sorry but way too soon.  Philg88 talk 10:47, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I was just kidding. Face-tongue.svg I fail my own criteria for adminship. Face-smile.svg Jim Carter (from public cyber) 10:53, 19 August 2014 (UTC)


There is currently a discussion, you might be interested in, Thanks. prokaryotes (talk) 18:07, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi prokaryotes and thanks for the message. Sorry, but the discussion had closed by the time I got to it. As requested at that page, I've commented on the new Beatport topic. Best,  Philg88 talk 07:12, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

GOCE July drive and August blitz[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors July 2014 backlog elimination drive wrap-up
Writing Magnifying.PNG

Participation: Thanks to everyone who participated in the July drive. Of the 40 people who signed up this drive, 22 copy edited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

Progress report: We reduced our article backlog from 2400 articles to 2199 articles in July. This is a new month-end record low for the backlog. Nice work, everyone!

Blitz: The August blitz will run from August 24–30. The blitz will focus on articles from the GOCE's Requests page. Awards will be given out to everyone who copy edits at least one of the target articles. The blitz will run from August 24–30. Sign up here!

Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Jonesey95, Baffle gab1978, and Miniapolis.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:11, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

TWL coordination[edit]

Thanks for volunteering as a potential coordinator for The Wikipedia Library. We have a brief questionnaire here for you to complete. Please try to have this done within the next week if possible. Thanks! Nikkimaria (talk) 03:04, 20 August 2014 (UTC)