User talk:Philg88

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About a ship.[edit]

Hello my friend, I'm taking a breather from all the Gotlandic articles and doing something else that I like for a couple of days: nice ships. And I saw that the article about one of Sweden's proudest, the Götheborg (ship) need a bit of help with references. But looking at the meagre reflist I notice that almost all of the information in the article is from the ships own website. Is this really good for references? I think that some of it can be used, such as facts about the ship itself, but how far can I go? Naturally I will gather whatever information I can about it from other sources, but anyhow.

Another thing. I have been approached by other Swedes working here at the EngWiki and some insists that it is ok to have conversations in Swedish. Here. It does not seem right to me, since this would exclude other editors. (You can look at my talk page.) Any comments? Best, - W.carter (talk) 15:35, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Hey kompis. As far as Götheborg (ship) goes, Wikipedia guidelines state that references should be independent for notability purposes but that non-independent references can be used to source content. Technically, given that all but one of the references are from the ship owner's website, the article could be nominated at articles for deletion on the grounds that it does not meet notability requirements. BUT (and it's a very big but), policy also states that sources do not need to be cited in the article, they just need to exist. In other words, an editor who felt so inclined could find the requisite references and add them to the article. This is why the million or more other articles in the same position, haven't (thankfully) been proposed for deletion.
As for your question on the use of foreign languages, these are a big no-no for article talk pages and Wikipedia forums because it's not fair on editors who don't understand that language. Personal user pages are governed by the rule that Wikipedia is not a social networking site and everything you discuss should be related to improving Wikipedia, not that your cat/dog/armadillo is sick etc. There is nothing that says you may not have a conversation in Swedish and as you may have seen here, I occasionally discuss things in Chinese when an editor finds English difficult. In short, this is English Wikipedia and the sensible advice is to use Swedish only if absolutely necessary. Your English skills are way beyond needing to revert to your native tongue to express yourself, but I accept that not everyone has the same skills and sometimes you may need to use a Swedish phrase to get the point across. Best,  Philg88 talk 16:58, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you so much for your sage advice. So it was pretty much as I expected. I'll do some digging during the weekend and see if can set the ship on the right course. I really like it (I have seen it a number of times and even been aboard when it came to Visby) and it would be a shame to loose such an article. And it is a relief to know that I was right about the language since the user proposing this is a senior editor and, well, I'm still a newbie. And now I have to go and smooth the ruffled feathers of my co-editors on John Bauer (illustrator) who seems to be on verge of an edit war. - W.carter (talk) 18:06, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello again Master Yoda! No ship this weekend. I decided to work on John Bauer (illustrator) instead since it was more urgent (see all the posts on the talk pages, mine and the article's). It's a bit scary since this time I don't have anything to just translate (the Swe article is just as scrawny as the Eng was) and the article is already in the main, so no draft page to tweak and ponder, just me writing top to bottom with my books beside me, referencing as I go along.Face-surprise.svg I try to remember all that you have taught me, keeping my notes close by, but I will have to revisit the article time and time again later to tweak and expand it. I hope to have the article in some kind of shape by tomorrow if you would like to check that I have not made any too horrible mistakes. Right now I have a more pressing problem: I’ve had some trouble with the translation of “Svanhamnen” (a central work). In old Swedish it is used to describe what a person(maid) is “wearing” when she turns into a swan, much like a wherewolf or any of the shapeshifters in True Blood. The most accurate word (as far as I know) is “Swan habit”, but that causes trouble. Just Google it and you get all the nesting habits of swans. I have settled for “attire” even if some people would think about Björk and her swan dress. Any suggestions? Cheers, - W.carter (talk) 10:05, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Oh, and I just thought I should mention, in case you don't know, that Bauer is to Swe what Beatrix Potter is to Eng. (And I really should write his full name, John Bauer, because every time I just write "Bauer" an very different man pops up in my head.) :D - W.carter (talk) 10:31, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Hey kompis! Joun Bauer is looking better, well done! The editor who I "discussed" the image problem with on the talk page seems to have got bored with arguing about it and has moved on. As a result I'm glad to see that there are now only eight images in the gallery rather than twelve, which is a step in the right direction. I have also done a couple of minor copyedits to the article. As for the swan thing, "attire" sounds odd to my English ears and it might be better to use a construction like "...shapeshifted into a swan...". Best,  Philg88 talk 08:03, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
@Philg88: Thank you so much for your help! :) Well, the whole thing apparently was about Tuvstarr being nominated for Featured Picture and the editor needed a good article to go with it and the only way to expand an article that the editor knew was to add more pictures to the article. I provided the necessary "provenance" in another way and that seemed to do the trick. The editor is stated as dragon, hmm, more like a herd of wildebeest. I think I'll ask the other editor if he can reduce the gallery to proper size now that so many of the pictures are in the text. And Happy Solstice to you! It's our main holiday here, bigger than Christmas, though I choose to celebrate it in an odd way this year. Best, - W.carter (talk) 10:10, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. I won't ask what's odd about your celebrating style – don't forget, I met some people from Gotland once :). Cheers,  Philg88 talk 11:09, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Lol! :) Being indoors all day editing The Wikipedia would be considered an unspeakable sacrilege by 99.7% of the Swedes. Although spending it writhing about our #1 nature/mystique artist does save me from being burned at the stake. Phew... - W.carter (talk) 11:16, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

你好??朋友, (probably wildly inaccurate but that's as far as I got with my old Chinese dictionary and very rudimentary skills.)^^ I have settled for "Swan maiden". I figured that since a werewolf can be called "The Wolf man" it's ok for her to be "The Swan maiden". It is a story, and I allow myself some artistic liberties as a translator just to keep the concept clear. I also tweaked the Gallery in a way that I hope will be satisfactory to everybody. Otherwise I'll take the heat for it. Cheers, - W.carter (talk) 14:26, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Much as I hate to correct you, the correct Chinese is 朋友,你好吗? The word order is back to front compared to English and note the extra character "ma" at the end that turns the phrase into a question. It's a long story ... in fact, about a 4,000 year one. That aside, I got to thinking that these stories must have been translated into English at some point. It turns out we have a Swan maiden article, and she, a.k.a. the shapeshifter, pops up in the folklore of many countries. So, you made a good choice of phrase! Now go outside and spend the rest of the day celebrating! Cheers,  Philg88 talk 15:13, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
You can correct me all you want,^^ like I said: rudimentary knowledge. I know about the left to right, I just did not know if is was treated the same way when inserted into an English sentence. And I was using the ?? as substitutes for the word "my" that I did not know the characters for. I was trying to say "hello my friend". In my "misspent youth" I studied calligraphy for Dr Tien Lung in Stockholm for a couple of years. I have no earthly knowledge of how to pronounce most of it but I still recognize some characters. So, I got lucky with the swan thing, thanks! Now I'm off to The Outdoors! - W.carter (talk) 15:36, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
My friend, I'm sorry to report that our gnu really trashed the other editor. I'm sure you can figure out what talk page to look at. Best, - W.carter (talk) 23:03, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, kompis, but you've lost me. I need a bit more of a clue as to what you are talking about :)  Philg88 talk 05:12, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello Philg88, sorry I was just trying to be discrete. It was during the abovementioned discussion about pictures on JB that the debate between editors Krenakarore and Hafspajen got heated. H was on one of his usual quests to put pictures everywhere an K opposed him. I tried to come up with a solution and so did you. H then took the debate to my talk page where he reverted to Swedish both for his own comfort and, I guess to exclude K. Some things were settled there but at the same time H went on to K's talk page to continue. It was a lengthy "debate" which was marked for deletion the next day by K. K is a friendly gnome who usually potters about each day, so when I had not heard from him in almost a week I became concerned. I asked around with his other friends and finally got a message from K, in my solstice greeting on his talk page, where he states that he is re-evaluating his position on the Wikipedia. There. Maybe it's not my business and I should just butt out, but I can not just stand by and watch somebody getting hurt. Or maybe it is because H displays all the stereotypic bad manners Swedes gets when "abroad". Or, it might be because I was also treated very harshly during my first weeks here and was about to leave when a friendly editor brought me back. I am really very much a newbie when it comes to how these things are resolved here on the Wikipedia, and that is why I mention the whole thing to you. And apologies for the ranting. Best - W.carter (talk) 09:52, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

No problem, Sometimes it's good to rant. I can't see exactly what happened because the comments have been revdeled but I can imagine. Shame really, I liked that friendly gnome. Alas, sometimes such things happen on Wikipedia and we just have to move on.  Philg88 talk 10:17, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

CE??[edit]

Can you copyedit this little draft ??? Thank you. Jim Carter (talk) 12:29, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Although the plot is not very clear to me - could do with some expansion I think. Best,  Philg88 talk 13:19, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Nor it is clear to me. I have seen the film and haven't understand anything. Face-tongue.svg The main problem was it's finishing, I have understand. Jim Carter (talk) 12:00, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Ah, I see. I shall remember that if the film pops up on Netflix. As the old saying goes, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear". Best,  Philg88 talk 12:08, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
What is Netflix?? Do you watch Indian movies????? Jim Carter (talk) 12:28, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Netflix is a video streaming service that includes some foreign language films. Yes, I sometimes watch Indian films, which is why I commented on Paan Singh Tomar previously.  Philg88 talk 12:34, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
好吧。我可以建議你一些電影。你會喜歡他們。—Is this correct? Face-smile.svg Jim Carter (talk) 13:41, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Not really, but I get your drift :) There aren't that many on Netflix so I need to find another source. Gentle reminder: WP:OWNTALK  Philg88 talk 14:35, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

I forgot about it Face-tongue.svg. Btw do you use or ever have used any android device to access Wikipedia??? Jim Carter (talk) 14:13, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I have a Google Nexus 7 that I use occasionally when I'm out. Why?  Philg88 talk 15:42, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
You can use this :) Jim Carter (talk) 18:23, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, but I've had that Wikipedia App for ages. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 19:01, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Outta curiosity...[edit]

South China Post [1] [2] [3] [4], Time [5] [6], Time Out [7], [8] [9], & HK Magazine [10]

Hi Phil. The AfD for Underground just closed as delete, in line with the arguments on it. Personally after sources searching I ended up thinking there probably was sufficient RS coverage (that was non-trivial; evidence of lasting impact/recognition etc) to meet notability standards & build a (non-substub) article. I guess I thought the discussion opened later than it did and didn't !vote before close. That'll teach me to dawdle. Anyway, was curious whether if I had with the sources above in a "coverage e.g link/link" way, they would've been sufficient to address your nn sigcov concerns? 91.125.29.135 (talk) 00:23, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

P.S. During the search I came across a passing mention to Hulu and thought oooh I've heard of them! :)
Hi there and thanks for the question. As I recall, the Underground article was written like an advert and I certainly didn't find any sources that I considered acceptable. Had I done so, I would probably have done a "hulu" on it. With the sources you cite, unfortunately, I can't access the SCMP as I've used up my access quota to that paper for this month. Similarly with Time, I would have to subscribe to read the article. The Time Out articles do have some depth, but it's hard to tell whether they are blogs or whether there was editorial oversight involved. Since insufficient reliable sources for the article was also the view of two other editors, the article had a consensus to delete so that's what happened. Had you !voted, that would have held off the deletion for a while and by the same token, if you'd added the quoted sources, maybe the outcome would have been different. As you say yourself, you dawdled, so next time !vote early. You might find it useful to read the Wikipedia guidelines on deletion reviews. Best,  Philg88 talk 04:58, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
A tip for you, Phil: most web sites track your access quota with cookies, which can be easily circumvented using your browser's "private browsing" or "incognito" feature. -Zanhe (talk) 05:17, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Cool, thanks for that. I'll have a poke around Firefox's settings.  Philg88 talk 06:11, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

New River[edit]

There is a discussion regarding the related AfD you participated in, with additional Chinese-language sources. Your input would be appreciated. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2014 June 25 --j⚛e deckertalk 14:36, 25 June 2014 (UTC).

Yes check.svg Done  Philg88 talk 17:40, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Shangxinhe[edit]

As you seem to be the most knowledgeable participant at the deletion review for the historic town of Shangxinhe, Jiangsu (Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2014 June 25), I'd appreciate if you'd direct me to a few policies/guidelines/conventions upheld for Chinese-related articles, in order to better my future participation in these sorts of discussions. TLA 3x ♭ 05:52, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi there TLA. There are only two Chinese policy guidelines: the Chinese style guide and Chinese naming conventions. Everything else is per the mainstream although a degree of familiarity is required with both the language and the Chinese Internet landscape when assessing sources, notability etc. It's also worth watching the Wikiproject China talk page. If you ever have specific questions that aren't covered in the style guides you're welcome to ask me. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 07:08, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Not a guideline/policy question in the slightest, but I was wondering if you have enough working knowledge with templates to fix that ugly mis-alignment at Template:Tianjin districts. The bottom two categories mis-align, that is. TLA 3x ♭ 06:06, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

@TLA How about now?  Philg88 talk 06:40, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
Not perfect but it's adequate and well-done nonetheless! TLA 3x ♭ 20:09, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

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Thanks for fixing references at CT Loo[edit]

Thanks for fixing the references at C.T. Loo. Sorry for not getting them right to begin with, but could you explain or steer me to the place that explains what it was that was wrong? I have a template, so I should correct it and not spawn more and more things to correct! ch (talk) 18:55, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome my friend. I've not seen this documented at length, but it's all to do with the "ref" parameter in {{Citation}} and {{Cite book}}. In the case of the former, "ref=harv" is hard coded, so if you use it outside of a reference (i.e. in a bibliography or see also section), it will throw an error. In the case of {{Cite book}}, if you use that outside of the reference section a problem only arises if you have "ref=harv" set. These errors are normally invisible, to see them you need to add importScript('User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.js'); to your custom Javascript config under preferences. Hope this helps! Best,  Philg88 talk 19:26, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Hi ch and Philg88! The instructions for installing the automatic HarvError detector are at User:Ucucha/HarvErrors. It's one click followed by a copy/paste, so it's simpler than it sounds. Incidentally, there is a way to avoid error messages with the {{citation}} template: just add "|ref=none" somewhere inside the template. If you need an abridged footnote (either in the {{sfn}} or in the {{harvnb}} format) to connect to that bibliographical entry, just remove "ref=none" from the template. For {{cite book}}, you have to add "|ref=harv" for the reference to connect to your footnotes. CWH: All of this will sound clearer once you can see those "HarvErrors" for yourself. Cheers! Madalibi (talk) 19:56, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Thanks Madalibi, and I should have credited you with introducing me to the script in the first place. Note that my comment on the "ref=harv" parameter is related to use outside of the reference section - not when it's used to connect article text. Anyway, I've probably confused the hell out of CWH so let's leave it at that for now! Cheers,  Philg88 talk 19:57, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Oh, no need to credit me with anything! I'm happy you're spreading the word about this useful script. It's just that when you said "your custom javascript config under preferences", I had absolutely no idea what you were talking about, so I jumped in! SFriendly.svg To ch: the simplest way to go is to click on Special:MyPage/common.js, which will take to a page called User:CWH/common.js. In your case it doesn't exist, so create that page, and paste this on the first line: importScript('User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.js'); (the entire text in green, including the semi-colon at the end). Save page and that's it: you can see HarvErrors.
There's another useful gadget called XTools that is very useful (I see you already have it, Phil). For each page you browse, it lets you know how many authors and watchers this page has, how many times it was viewed in the last 60 days, who created it, etc. To get all this information, you used to have to go to "View history" and click on several links one by one. To get that script, just paste →mw.loader.load('//meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Hedonil/XTools/XTools.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript');← (not including the arrows) to your "commons.js" page. All right, I hope this all works out. Cheers to you both! Madalibi (talk) 05:09, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, sorry, that Wikijargon was a bit too assumptive of familiarity with the Mediawiki framework. @Madalibi: XTools is a cool gadget, there seem to be a lot of these scripts floating around - one of my favourites is link classifier (see my custom js), which is incredibly useful for highlighting DABs and circular links. I've also tweaked my CSS to display Hanzi in a different font style. Best,  Philg88 talk 05:18, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I just saw that "link classifier" on your page while I was writing that and I just installed it. I don't have too many tools installed, so if you see a nifty one around, don't hesitate to let me know! Best, Madalibi (talk) 05:50, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
Cool! The two thingamabobs really work wonders! Many thanks to both of you.ch (talk) 19:18, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
@ch: Great, I'm glad it worked! And if you want to try one more of those whatchamakallits, do try that "link classifier" Philg88 is recommending. The instructions are at User:Anomie/linkclassifier#Usage. Best, Madalibi (talk) 05:56, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Pinyin[edit]

I saw you at DRV commenting with some assurance about pinyin so I thought I'd ping you only to find that you actually welcome such enquiries! Finding recently to my astonishment there was no article about the 1921 British Mount Everest reconnaissance expedition I created one and found a problem with place names. The names used in the book of the 1921 expedition are often still used by mountaineers today but in modern maps (and often in WP) different spellings are used (and I think I have learned these are pinyin romanisations). Originally I wrote the article using pinyin names with footnotes explaining the spellings in the old books but then I decided to swing everything round the other way. Anyway, as you will see, I got out of my depth. Can you sort me out (or the article, or both)? I'm old enough to remember when Peking (and even Pekin) became Beijing and I can see the same shift taking place with Lhakpa La and Lhagba La. Thincat (talk) 20:24, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi Thincat and thanks for the interesting question. Although pinyin is prefererred as the default for English Wikipedia, the rule of thumb is that it's OK to use alternative romanisation systems (Wade-Giles and in obscure cases Legge) if the topic in question dates to before the fall of Imperial China (Xinhai Revolution 1911). There are also exceptions for customary use - for example Chiang Kai-shek, which is unrecognizable in its pinyin form (Jiang jieshi). Then there's the thorny issue of cultural imperialism, i.e. imposing use of the Chinese language on ethnic groups, as is the case in Tibet and some other "autonomous" regions.
Being more specific, the article's section on romanisation is incorrect, for example "Tista" is not "Teesta" when using pinyin because syllables with that spelling aren't used. I don't know what the correct pinyin is because I don't read Tibetan and neither would I wish to find out the correct form for the reasons given above. I would just amend the section to say that alternative romanisations are used without mentioning pinyin - the easiest way to do this is would be to replace "pinyin" with "or".
In summary, apart from the above, the article looks fine as it is and I wouldn't worry too much about the minor nuances of variable romanisation. Hope this helps. Cheers  Philg88 talk 05:09, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for your advice which I have acted on. At the same time I've removed some of the footnotes giving an alternative when the WP article linked to already has the alternative spelled out. Thincat (talk) 09:55, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Magic[edit]

Hello Magician, please do some magic here. Thanks, Jim Carter (talk) 12:46, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Sure, I only have tablet access today so I'll take a look tomorrow. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 08:07, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
No problem. Don't forget to ping when the magic is complete. Jim Carter (talk) 20:09, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
@Jim Cartar Wand activated, Yes check.svg Done Face-smile.svg.  Philg88 talk 08:20, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
You are great magician. Thank you. Greater than Harry Houdini Face-grin.svgFace-tongue.svg Jim Carter (talk) 10:04, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Delsort[edit]

You have sorted this article to a redlink related discussion. Check it. Face-tongue.svg Jim Carter (talk) 21:21, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Hey Jim Cartar. I know. All it means is that Wikiproject Companies doesn't have a Delsort listing page set up. It's supposed to remind me (or someone else) to set one up.  Philg88 talk 04:22, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

GOCE July 2014 newsletter[edit]

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July 2014[edit]

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Searching for titleblacklisted pages[edit]

FYI, the change I told you about at User talk:Mr. Stradivarius#Location maps - again!! is now live here. Jackmcbarn (talk) 15:37, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Jack I was kinda confused by the section heading above when I saw the notification, but this goes to show that the framework can be improved! Best,  Philg88 talk 15:57, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Coordinates precision, continued[edit]

Continuation of discussion at: Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions#.22Overly_precise.22_coordinates.

You converted the dms coordinates to decimal with six decimal positions. You then reasoned that, since six decimal positions gives a resolution of about 10 cm, dms is therefore too precise for the given application. That seems flawed to me. I think the question that should be asked is, what is the distance difference between adjacent seconds of lat or long? Using the table at WP:OPCOORD, and knowing that a second is 1/360 of a degree, I get roughly 250 m (90 km / 360). That is one-third the diameter of the object circle. Therefore, if anything, dms is a little less precise than the guideline suggests (A general rule is to give precisions approximately one tenth the size of the object). According to the table, four decimal positions gives a resolution of about 9 m, or 1/83 the size of the object, while three decimal positions would be 1/8.3 the size of the object. So, of the three alternative formats, the closest to the guideline would be three decimal positions. Would you concur? (In hindsight, I could have done all this thinking before I asked the question, and I should have.)

Some smart guy should create a tool to give the best format for a given object size. That's what computers are for!

As for my other question, whether to start with the GNIS coordinates of the town or try to approximate the center of the circle, I think the latter would be the only logical thing to do, since it's that circle that determines the precision. Do you agree? And would doing that be safe from WP:NOR objections? Mandruss (talk) 05:42, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

@Mandruss:. Hi there. This is a bit random but here we go. Thinking about it, isn't the map scale at the heart of this issue? WP:OPCOORD suggests using 1:50,000 for "events" via the t:edu parameter to {{coord}}. As I said earlier, four decimal places isn't a hard and fast rule so three is no problem and fits your diameter calculations. As for the location of the killings, using OSM with the current six digit coordinates I get a position in the center of a square bounded by Abrego, Sueno, California del Sur and Camino Pescadero, which AFAICT doesn't seem to be the center of the campus. I have some fairly sophisticated mapping software that provides six degrees of precision for any coordinate location on the OSM world map, so if you want me to find the center of your circle, just tell me where to put it. I don't think there can be any OR concerns as the data is verifiable via multiple sources. Best,  Philg88 talk 06:40, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
"The current six digit coordinates" you refer to are the decimal equivalent of the GNIS (dms) coordinates for the "populated place" of Isla Vista. I'm not sure exactly how GNIS determines those coordinates. Note that the campus isn't relevant since none of the killing spree occurred on campus. For defining the circle I'm using the two most distant crime scenes, and imagining a circle just large enough to enclose those two points. Those points are:
  • Intersection of Del Playa Dr and Camino Del Sur (southwest)
  • Intersection of Segovia Rd and Embarcadero Del Norte (northeast)

And I was wrong, that circle is more like 900 m, not 750. Using three decimal positions I'm currently estimating a center at 34.412 N 119.859 W. If you can improve on that, all the better. Mandruss (talk) 06:57, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

@Mandruss: My calculations:
From that I make the center at 34°24′45″N 119°51′32″W / 34.4124554°N 119.8589936°W / 34.4124554; -119.8589936, which is pretty much bang on yours.
Now I have an important appointment with Sniper Elite III Face-smile.svg Back later.  Philg88 talk 07:32, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Welcome back. I hope you killed a lot of guys in Sniper Elite III (bad guys, preferably).
Ok thanks. Now, to revisit the OR question one more time:
I don't think there can be any OR concerns as the data is verifiable via multiple sources. Well actually the raw data --- the locations of the crime scenes --- is verifiable. There's no source that provides the center of the circle, and therefore none that directly supports the coordinates. It seems to me that it takes some WP:OR or WP:SYN to get there, and that's what we've been doing in this discussion. I don't necessarily have a problem with bending rules where they don't make sense, but I'd like to know that's what I'm doing. I've been struggling with the concept of OR for quite awhile. Mandruss (talk) 07:40, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Also, while I have your attention, what would you think about the value of a table like this one following the existing table at WP:OPCOORD? Mandruss (talk) 10:14, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Mandruss: No friendly fire casualties, I'm please to report. As far as OR/SYNTH concerns go with the Vista killings, I don't think anyone is going to be obtuse enough to argue that this extends to a proven mathematical formula (i.e. three non-linear equidistant points when joined lie on the circumference of a circle, the center of which can then be determined).

Nice job on the table! Should be very useful so those who are interested. Where are you planning to put it? Might be suitable at the end of WP:OPCOORD#Implementation details or in the {{coord}} documentation.  Philg88 talk 03:25, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Popping in here from following this discussion in the Teahouse, just to mention that here I see a good reason for decimal lat&long: It gives you much finer control over precision than sexagesimal (base-60). --Thnidu (talk) 05:21, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
@Thnidu: Agreed. Face-smile.svg  Philg88 talk 05:30, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Regarding WP:OR and WP:V, I'd rather the coordinates be sourced, too. I've already seen a few that are in the opposite side of the country from where they should be. On precision, I think these concerns are overkill; all one needs most of the time is just common sense. No 1E−6 precision is ever needed for large cities, and three decimal places (around 11.1 meters if approximating 1° to 60 nautical miles) for the location of an attack or any landmark in a city should never be sufficient. TLA 3x ♭ 05:45, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

@The Last Arietta, TLA: Conversely, if someone enters the wrong coordinates with a reference, the result is exactly the same, i.e. incorrect data. Mandating that coordinates must be referenced doesn't solve the problem. Unlike much of the data on Wikipedia, coordinates (when correct) can't really be challenged, we just need to ensure that they are correct in the first place, whatever the source. This is really a case of SOFIXIT as opposed to a policy matter.  Philg88 talk 06:05, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
@TLA: : On precision, I think these concerns are overkill; all one needs most of the time is just common sense. I think one needs some common sense, a solid understanding of how maps and lat&long work, and a fair level of math (arithmetic) skills. Not many WP editors have enough of all three for this kind of thing (in my experience, your average grownup thinks precision and accuracy are synonyms, for example). If the community wants more quality and consistency in this area, we'll have to (1) figure out ways to make these things easier for the average editor, and (2) provide clear and consistent guidance in help files. Simply encouraging people to use common sense won't get us there, imo. Mandruss (talk) 07:40, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
@Philg88: : Where are you planning to put it? I wouldn't be comfortable modifying any help file without first consulting some appropriate group. Where would you suggest I go to sell this? Mandruss (talk) 07:40, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
@Mandruss: I wouldn't go anywhere to sell it. Be bold and add it per my suggestions above. I don't think anyone will complain about a useful addition to the encyclopedia but if you're concerned post a message at the Coordinates Project talk page with a ping to Andy Mabbett and Redrose64 who are both active in this area. You certainly have my support for the addition. Best,  Philg88 talk 10:21, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
@Philg88: I wouldn't go anywhere to sell it. Yeah, but what you can do is different from what I can do. You have two things I don't: longevity and a ton of community respect. I've already had an unpleasant encounter with Andy Mabbett, who appeared to judge my argument on my length of service rather than on its merits (as well as distorting my argument so it could be more easily countered). Based on that experience, if I were WP:BOLD I would expect that Mr. Mabbett would (1) see my userid, (2) look briefly at the tables, and (3) revert with some obscure and obtuse edit summary. No thanks, I'll try the WP:TIMID approach instead. Mandruss (talk) 11:13, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
@Mandruss: Taking this to the project talk page was a smart move. I've commented there. Best,  Philg88 talk 13:59, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
@Philg88: Absent a response, I went ahead and added the tables, adding to the talk page. Mandruss (talk) 13:15, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
@Mandruss: Seems sensible, maybe you'll get some comments now.  Philg88 talk 15:59, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
@TLA: : three decimal places (around 11.1 meters if approximating 1° to 60 nautical miles) for the location of an attack or any landmark in a city should never be sufficient. That statement gets my attention, since it goes to the heart of the tables I created, which I'm going to try to get into the help files. The tables clearly suggest three decimal positions for 2014 Isla Vista killings (object size ~950 m, latitude ~34°). Note that I didn't just pull the tables out of my hat; they are derived from existing information at WP:OPCOORD. It may be that you wouldn't apply your statement to this case since the attacks covered a wider area than most do. But, if you would apply it here, could I persuade you to look at my methodology and tell me where you think it's flawed? Mandruss (talk) 09:37, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Arbitary Section Break[edit]

@Philg88: Hello, I'm back from the Almedalen Week and still in one piece, and I've been (trying) to follow this discussion, but some of it is a bit fuzzy to me. Is this something I have to worry about? I deal with map coordinates all the time in my Template:Gotland County articles. I always have to correct them since most of the existing ones just put everything in the middle of the island, and I use the sexagesimal system since this seems to work in the Infoboxes. Most of the time I just go on line at some mapsite and try to work out what coordinates the center of the locality have. Should this be done in a different way? Best, - W.carter (talk) 09:17, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

@W.carter: Welcome back my friend. Are you President of Gotland now :) As for coordinates, I looked at a couple of the Gotland settlements that use coordinates within {{infobox settlement}} and they are overly precise. d° m' s" or three decimal places will give you a radius of approx 5 Km (at nearly 60°) north, which I would have thought enough for relatively minor settlements (no disrespect intended). You can tweak your CSS in preferences to show both sexagesimal and decimal coordinates, which is helpful - if you don't know how to do that and would like that functionality, just shout and I will fix it up for you. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 10:36, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

@Philg88: Well, not quite President...^^ My role was more of the "Hey, you there, where/who/what/when..." kind. Thanks for clarifying how the coordinates works here. Another cultural difference. (=Things I Like To Know About) I just copied the coordinates from the SweWiki where they adhere to an ancient but still working system in Sweden. Since localities are always growing, changing and so on, we always have a "center" and let the rest fall as it may. All over Sweden you can still see the old milestones marking the distance from the center. Most of them are now within the expanded towns. I'll do some potting around and see if I can get the CSS-thing working and give you a shout if(when) I fail. Cheers! - W.carter (talk) 11:03, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

@Philg88: So if I understand this right, tweaking my CSS just alters how things look on my computer, it doesn't "do" anything to the article? And since I am just as happy to work with either of the two systems (converting is no problem) I just think I'll leave the settings as they are. Unless you have some compelling argument about using both simultaneously. Best, - W.carter (talk) 12:00, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Correct, kompis, it does nothing to the article, just makes it easier to see if the coordinates are overly precise. Best,  Philg88 talk 12:15, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Magic show[edit]

Please arrange another magic show here, I want to see your magic again. Thanks, Jim Carter 12:15, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

I mean can you copyedit the above draft?? Jim Carter 04:21, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
@Jim Cartar: Yes check.svg Done with one request for clarification. The draft needs some references, which you probably already know. Best,  Philg88 talk 05:13, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you very much Phil, I was waiting for your response. I thought you overlooked my request. I will soon add some sources. Jim Carter 06:42, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Hainan Province vs Hainan - a page move at commons[edit]

Could you please take a look at this and tell me what you think? Cheers, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:55, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

@Anna Frodesiak:. Hmm ... S(He) does have a point. There is certainly a difference between the island (海南岛) and the province (海南省). This didn't use to be a big deal before the disputes over Sansha/Xisha etc. became prominent and this is the official CPC line, so I think that the change should stand. Best,  Philg88 talk 03:33, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Fair enough. Many thanks, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:57, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Tech News: 2014-28[edit]

Coordinates ref[edit]

@Philg88: : You said in the recent Teahouse discussion that sourcing GNIS-provided coordinates is "not mandatory". I agree with your reasoning and would always omit said refs. But I note a coords_ref parameter in the infobox protected area template, and its documentation says the parameter is "strongly recommended". This is another case where templates, help files, etc., are out of sync with the wisdom of experienced editors. That will always result in counterproductive conflict and wasted effort. Many editors will do one thing because the doc says they should, and many others will do the opposite because they disagree with the doc. The two sides will be endlessly "correcting" the other's work, and a lot of otherwise unnecessary time will be spent in article talk seeking consensus. This is not to mention the potential for edit warring and the resulting ill will. Why create opportunity for that when it's so easy to avoid it? It's no way to run an encyclopedia, imo. Mandruss (talk) 10:29, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

@Mandruss: "Strongly recommended" and "not mandatory" say basically the same thing from opposite perspectives but what it boils down to is that there is no hard and fast rule about coordinate sourcing. The problem with precise rules is that there are sometimes exceptions, which is why Wikipedia works on concensus according to a framework of policies. If it were mandated that all coordinates had to be referenced, thousands of articles would need to be edited and the offending template removed. Not only would that would be a tremendous waste of time that could be used more effectively elsewhere, it would go against the idea of building an encyclopedia. Yes, sometimes Wikipedia can be frustrating but ultimately the way it operates does work.  Philg88 talk 05:56, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
@Philg88: Points taken. But how is the average editor to learn about these consensuses? By word of mouth? Mandruss (talk) 07:20, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
@Mandruss: That's a good question. I guess the answer is that editors need to read a lot and hang back from discussions in key areas until they get a feel for how things operate. As you know, the Teahouse is a pretty good place for answers as is the Reference Desk. IMHO it takes at least a couple of years of in-depth involvement to understand the nuances of Wikipedia.  Philg88 talk 07:31, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
@Philg88: So every time I think an editor is both deviating from the doc and wrong, I should go to Teahouse or RD to find out whether there's a consensus I'm not aware of? And not just me, but every editor like me? I'm beginning to realize that, for me, the bottom line is (1) my digital mind doesn't cope very well with analog situations, and (2) I care too much; after all, at the end of the day, It's Only Wikipedia (someone needs to create a WP:IOWP file!) Anyway, thanks for trying. Mandruss (talk) 08:04, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
@Mandruss: Give it time and you'll get used to it. Meanwhile, your digital mind seems to be making good progress in improving the project. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 08:11, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

inre Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Blood Stained Tradewind[edit]

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Philg88. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Blood Stained Tradewind.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

There have been developments. Care to revisit the discussion? Thanks. Schmidt, Michael Q. 21:44, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the message MichaelQSchmidt. !vote duly registered. I've also cleaned up the article text a bit.  Philg88 talk 05:36, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
Happy to be of help. Face-smile.svg Schmidt, Michael Q. 12:47, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
@MichaelQSchmidt: There is another one in the same vein here. If you have time, please take a look. Best,  Philg88 talk 09:07, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

I feel that hitting a "Thanks" button is inadequate.[edit]

Hence, I'll be explicit: Thank you for those translations. Pdfpdf (talk) 14:27, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome Pdfpdf. I stumbled across the frustration you expressed elsewhere and thought the translations might help. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 14:31, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────BTW: Similar such translations would (in my undoubtedly biased opinion) be "more than useful" in other articles. Do you have the available time to add such useful information to other articles like, for example, Paracel Islands? Pdfpdf (talk) 14:48, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

@Pdfpdf: Yes check.svg Done  Philg88 talk 06:13, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Faster than a speeding bullet. More powerful than a locomotive. "Look! Up in the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a plane? ...
Yes. I'm impressed. Thank you! Pdfpdf (talk) 12:34, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Saharanpur in use?[edit]

Hello, Philg88. Did you forget to remove an 'in use' template from Saharanpur? The template was in place, but the page hadn't been edited in about 10 hours. I removed the template – though actually, I had disambiguated a link to 'English' before I noticed it. Please re-add the template if you are still copy editing. Happy editing, Cnilep (talk) 02:37, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi there Cnilep and thanks for the message. No, I didn't forget to remove the template, the article is in the middle of copyediting. Sometimes I need to eat and sleep though Face-smile.svg. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 04:47, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot[edit]

Dead water[edit]

Hey Kompis, it's just me again. Once I had referenced the Götheborg (ship) I did not feel like leaving it just yet since I had a book and all (it's such a nice ship), so I wrote some things myself and I am currently expanding the article by translating sections from the SweWiki. Btw, thanks for putting the Main about the Swedish East India Company. :) I would have missed that. I put a similar Main for the ship in that article. When it comes to ships, the SweWiki is not as bad as it usually is. I think that editors dealing with ships are more used to documenting things in logs and such, so the articles are usually rather well referenced. When I translate I try to stay as true to the original text as possible. I feel I owe it to the editor who wrote the thing. But, in this case I ran into something unexpected. In the section "Sinking" the Swe editor has a lengthy and detailed explanations about dead water with examples and everything. But I realized that this is because the SweWiki does not have an article about dead water, and that the article here covers just about everything written in the Swedish article about the ship. So I just skipped all of that in the translation. Was this a correct thing to do, or should I translate that too? Cheers, - W.carter (talk) 23:18, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Hey my friend. That was the right call. If we have a dead water article there is no point in duplicating that content elsewhere. On a different note, one of my areas of interest is historic trade with China. Wikipedia's coverage of the general topic is largely Anglo-American centric even though the other European East India Companies played an important role - for example in 1741, the Swedish East India Company was the largest black tea trader in Canton (see Canton System for details). If you come across any Swedish sources in this area it would be great to expand the relevant articles accordingly. Best,  Philg88 talk 07:00, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
Hey Tai-pan, happy to be of service. It's a fascinating subject that has grown on me as I read about the background of the ship. I had some vague idea about the whole thing before, but I will certainly do some more digging. There are a some things still to add to the Götheborg and I saw that the SweWiki article on Swedish East India Company is a GA full of goodies so I was already thinking about expanding that one here. There is plenty of good literature too so this should be fun. Someone else also liked my expansion of the Götheborg. A couple of days ago it was upgraded to B-class. :) Oh, and I've placed the Bauer article in line at the CE guild. We'll just have to wait and see. Best, - W.carter (talk) 08:57, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
Sounds good kompis. It would be nice to see Swedish East India Company as a GA. I see that the University of Gothenburg has the company's archives and its times like this that I wish I could read Swedish! Cheers,  Philg88 talk 09:49, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
Well, you just have to holler, and I'll translate whatever you want. :) It would be really nice to finally be able to do something for you since you've been helping me so much. Cheers, - W.carter (talk) 09:56, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Hej Kompis, I think I have done as much as I can for now on the Götheborg. There are of course lots and lots more to add if one should feel so inclined. Maybe later. I'll move on and start to read up on the Swedish East India Company before I begin to translate. It's always better to know something about a subject before messing with it. If you have the time and if you feel like it, the Götheborg (ship) could really use some copy editing. No rush, I'm not going to nominate it or anything, but it would be nice if the article looked good just the same. I think I've left my paw-prints all over the text by now and there are so many technical things in the text. There is one word I am unsure about using: porcelain. My first instinct was to use "china" or "china ware", but porcelain is the word used in the English section of the book. The finds from the ship really look like the pictures in the porcelain article, but to me the word sounds more like something to do with bathrooms or dentists! Advice would be nice. All the best, w.carter-Talk 21:00, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Ahoy shipmate! Good work on the Götheborg, I'll give it the once over in the next couple of days. As for "porcelain", as I understand it this is a specific type of ceramic due to its kaolin content, so it is correct to use the specific term rather than a more generic reference to Chinaware. You are of course correct that porcelain is used to make toilets and urinals but that came later - when porcelain first arrived from the Orient a luxury toilet would have been a hole in the ground surrounded by grass :) Cheers,  Philg88 talk 07:34, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Aye, aye Captain! Thanks. :) w.carter-Talk 07:44, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Precious[edit]

Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg

Giving Victims a Voice
Thank you for quality contributions to articles such as SS Edmund Fitzgerald and Lindenwood University, for adding spice, for copyediting and serving Chinese topics with proficiency, for maps, especially Giving Victims a Voice, for avoiding systematic bias, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:15, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you kindly, much appreciated!  Philg88 talk 05:31, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Help[edit]

Please can you make a map of File:Location_map_India_Andhra_Pradesh_EN.svg with slight correction. Reference a small portion of addition near West Godavari district.--Vin09 (talk) 14:05, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Vin09 and thanks for the message. Please see my response to your request at the map workshop. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 05:30, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

SOIC[edit]

I certainly have my work cut out for me now. ;) My small library yielded a couple thousand pages on the Swedish East India Company (SOIC), And as I started digging around it turns out that almost all of the documents from the archives are now digitalized and available on line. They must all be considered primary sources, so maybe not so good for the article, but since you have a special interest in this I thought I could mention it to you. Most of the documents are not transcribed but there is very much text about them so they should be readable with Google translate, and I think you can enjoy just looking at the actual documents. (Plus you have your very own translator just a couple of clicks away.^^) This is the start page of the archive at the Nordic Museum. It contains the documents collected by one Jean Abraham Grill. The digital archive contains 7,000 documents! Just click around a bit and you'll see. The Gothenburg university library has all of the documents from the SOIC digitalized and on line here. Just click on the "digital kopia" (digital copy) to access them, and you'll find beauties like this one. ("Flash" is required.) I entered "Canton" in the search box and could find several diaries written by captains and also things like this "Ships chaplain C.C. Ströms papers, no. 1166: French translation of an edict by the Mandarine Fou yune-Lhy to the English consul in Canton." And on this page there are links to even more museums with digitalized documents about the SOIC. Overwhelming to say the least. If I really wanted to this article could quite easily become one of the largest on the EngWiki. But I'll just take it one bit at the time, and hope you can provide some good language later.^^ Cheers, w.carter-Talk 22:52, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Wow kompis, those are some awesome sources! I should have known that the Swedes would have digitised their archives methodically and thoroughly :) When I get some some time I will have a proper look - a quick scan of that French document (a language I can read, thankfully) proved most interesting. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 06:36, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Glad you like it. I'm hooked myself. Many of the documents reads like some western (Eastern?). A cross between Hell on Wheels ("Hell on waves?") and Dances with Wolves ("Dances with Dragons?"). Just a note in case you think your Google translator has gone mad. The Swedish word for "east" is "öst". The letter Ö is pronounced like the "œu" in the French word for eggs, "œufs". In English the closest letter is "U". But, when inserted in a context "öst" looses the dots and becomes "ost" with the different letter "O" instead, like in "Ostindiska Kompaniet" (East India Company) in the 17th century spelled "Ostindiska Companiet" hence SOIC. This word "ost" also means "cheese" in Swedish (don't ask me why) same spelling, exact same pronunciation. This is naturally the base of many Swedish maritime jokes. So do not be alarmed if the translation of "Ostindiska Kompaniet" turns out "the Cheesy India Company". It's just our weird language. Cheese, w.carter-Talk 09:26, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
I also saw that the diary of Colin Campbell has been made into a book in English. I'm not familiar with Google books, but it seems to exist there. A hard copy is also available at one of the second-hand bookshops where I shop. They ship abroad if you are interested. Best, w.carter-Talk 16:00, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
It looks like a nice book kompis, but at a hundred quid it's a bit outside my budget range! Cheers,  Philg88 talk 05:54, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Mine too.:-/ I have to stick to libraries. About a hundred pages into the book pile, I've done some editing at SOIC. Just 1.900 more pages to go. Best, w.carter-Talk 06:54, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

My friend, on my way to work I realized how snobbish my pre-previous post sounded. I do shop there, but at the dirt cheap section where gems can be found. The site is a collected site for all secondhand book dealers in Sweden, including the private ones with just a bunch of books in a closet. Like, a couple of weeks ago I put in a request and The impossible-to-find, pristine, leather bound with gilded pages, 1935 biography on John Bauer is now mine for three dollars. I can now expand the JB article with rare material whenever I want! (that is...later) :) Best, w.carter-Talk 08:33, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Not snobbish at all kompis, just an observation. BTW, for an interesting if light-hearted article read this. Best,  Philg88 talk 09:03, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Face-grin.svg Hilarious! Thank You, it brightened up my evening. I'll be sure to pass it on to various friends. That is, friends who I otherwise have surreal talks with on subject like this. Cat lovers all. Best, w.carter-Talk 19:09, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
P.S. I was thinking, maybe the Swedes aren't the only ones with good digital archives, so I took a look at the other countries/companies as well. This might be old hat to you, but the Dutch have made a beautiful presentation of documents related to their travels here. I can not read a word of Dutch but all you have to do is click on the dots and then on some tabs and you get wonderful original maps and pictures. The page is pretty self-explanatory. The search continues.:) (!) And I just realized that there is an In-English-Button. (!) w.carter-Talk 20:22, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Another excellent find, kompis, well done!  Philg88 talk 06:19, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Oliver Evans[edit]

Hi Philg88,

A little while ago you interacted a bit with the work I was doing on Oliver Evans. I've put it up for GA but it's been sitting there since April and I was hoping you might be able to do the review since I'd like to put it up ultimately for FA status. Only if you have the time of course! Cheers, Unus Multorum (talk) 09:24, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Unus Multorum and thanks for the message. I'll take the review as Oliver was an interesting chap :). I've updated the relevant pages with the review status but please be aware that I'm a bit tied up with a Guild of Copy Editors drive at the moment so you won't see much progress until the end of the month. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 09:39, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ying Wa Primary School[edit]

Hi. 'Redirect' is a perfectly acceptable alternative to deletion as you correctly mentioned by citing OUTCOMES, and as described at WP:DELETION (a policy), so there is no need to bring the articles to AfD if that is the action you reccommend. Feel free to do the redirect yourself. It is a far less bureaucratic action and will never entrain criticism if at some stage the redirect is reverted. That would be the moment for AfD. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:01, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Kudpung and thanks for the message. I agree that there is no real need for an AfD submission where a bold redirect will do. That said, it's important that editors, especially new ones, understand why these articles get redirected to avoid potential revert wars that waste time. I rarely submit redirect proposals to AfD for these type of articles, but rather tend to rubber stamp the ones that turn up there. I suspect that over time the process will balance itself out as the usual consensus becomes apparent and such articles are no longer created in the first place. Best,  Philg88 talk 06:15, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your considered relpy, Phil. You may be interested in a current discussion on my talk page. Whether you agree with it or not your comments would be most appreciated. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:25, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the invitation Kudpung. I'd be happy to comment but I don't really have anything to add to your existing arguments. I agree with you that we need to find a way to stop AfD getting snarled up with unnecessary submissions but by the same token I don't think Epeefleche is acting in anything other than good faith. I will watch with interest to see where the discussion ends up. Best,  Philg88 talk 07:15, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
I've never contended for a moment that Epee is not acting in GF, but sometimes GF actions may not be quite appropriate for the smooth management of the 'pedia. Anyway, his work serves only as a catalyst for discussion on what could be undertaken to alleviate the burden on AfD, and best inform other editors of the way school articles are generally handled. Do feel free to comment there even if it is only to add some balance to the discussion. and help us to formulate a project we can offer to the broader community for discussion. Cheers. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:24, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
...Hmm... Let me give this issue some further thought before I comment. Cheers,  Philg88 talk 07:47, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Re: A belated welcome![edit]

Thank you for the warm welcome,bro. It's very nice. And thank you for answering my question in Teahouse once again!--HKM (talk) 14:47, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

不客气,我真开心帮给您。 祝好, 菲利普, a.k.a.  Philg88 talk 15:29, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

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