User talk:Schoeppe

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Party colours

The current CPC may be the legal successor of the old PCs, but it's also the legal successor of both the Canadian Alliance and, by extension, the Reform Party of Canada. As a result, the CPC's colour has to be different from the PC's colour, because it's unacceptable POV to privilege the CPC's relationship to the PCs over its relationship to Reform and the Alliance. The colours are to stay as they are, and you may be editblocked if you disregard this. Bearcat 11:11, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

The new CPC is most certainly not the same thing as the pre-1942 CPC. It's not even close to being the same thing. Bearcat 15:40, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Re:Party Colours

The 3RR is the three-revert rule, which says that you cannot revert a page more than three times in the same day (unless you are fighting vandalism). Bearcat gave you a warning because your edits go against current consensus of how we colour the tables about Canadian politics. Your argument about the topic does have some legitimacy to it, and I know that you are not trying to be a vandal, but you cannot edit pages to match your view unless you first convince the general consensus of the community to change its policy. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 15:36, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

The thing that confuses me most about your edits is why you make the PCs different from the old and new CPCs. Do you think that the old and new parties have more in common with each other than with the PC party in between them?

In any case, the problem with making the old and new CPCs the same colour is that it ignores the Alliance Party, which contributed more MPs to the new party than did the old party. It would actually be more accurate to give the new CPC the Alliance's old colour, but that would also be POV. The compromise is to give it a whole new colour.

As for your second question, the main way to get around disputes is to ask more people from the relevant wikiproject (in this case WikiProject Political parties and politicians in Canada) to weigh in. You may also want to read this policy on Resolving disputes in Wikipedia. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 16:08, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

In proposing that the new CPC have the same coloura s the old CPC I was trying to follow the arguments you made about legal entities to a logical conclusion. I personally feel that the historical CPC through to the current CPC, including the PCs should be the same colour. However, there is validity in the argument that the PCs and the new CPC should be separate colours. Political opponents of the new CPC argue that it is merely the Canadian Alliance with a new name and all vestiges of the old PC Party of Canada have forever disappeared, including any links to the historical CPC. By portraying the Prime Ministers of all tory parties other than the current CPC as the same colour while giving the new CPC a new colour it definitely corresponds with that viewpoint held by those people. Definitely not NPOV. Unfortunately, Bearcat has lowered the discussion to the level of personal attacks, so there isn't really much to discuss with him anymore. Please see the discussion on Minority Governments in Canada (sorry I don't know how to link directly to a given page.) I appreciate the way you have dealt with this. Hopefully I will have the time to look at the dispute resolution mechanism. Thanks. Schoeppe 16:25, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Schoeppe, you have not characterized the opposing argument fairly. Here it is in a nutshell: there was a party from 1867 to 2003 that changed its name several times. It was called the Conservative Party, the Liberal-Conservative Party, the Unionist Party, the National Liberal and Conservative Party, National Government and the Progressive Conservative Party. In 2003, it dissolved itself, and the majority of its members joined witht he members of the Canadian Alliance to form a new Conservative Party.

Because the new Conservative Party was founded by members of two previous parties, it should not have the same colour as either of them. If it has the same colour as the CA, this implies that it is a continuation of the CA, and the CA has "taken over" the party. If it has the same colour as the PC Party, it implies that it is a continuation of the PC Party, and the CA members just folded their tent and joined the PC Party.

Neither is the case. it is a new party, formed by members of two former parties, and so it should have a new colour. I hope this helps clear things up. Ground Zero | t 17:03, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I've responded to your last comment on my talk page. Ground Zero | t 19:22, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

And again. Ground Zero | t 20:14, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

May 2014

Hello, I'm 117Avenue. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit to List of female first ministers in Canada seemed less than neutral to me, so I removed it for now. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. 117Avenue (talk) 06:37, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi,

I think your revert leaves some question as to why the polls for the PCs dropped, without providing any polls. The blanket "she resigned after dropping in the polls" does not give a full picture of the reason as to her resignation? If a link to 'polls' was provided it would provide some more information as to the reason for the resignation.

This article logs the timeline of the events leading up to Redford's resignation.

There is nothing explicitly mentioning polls in the above link. I believe going back to my edit with a link to this article provides better information as to her resignation while remaining neutral.--Schoeppe (talk) 14:50, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

And what of the other leaders? That table entry is only meant to be a summary of each leader's career timeline. The article does not exist to list how women have failed at Canadian politics. 117Avenue (talk) 03:27, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

I didn't make an edit to other leader's sections in the article, just to Redford's. Does the fact I made only one edit to the article diminish the value of the edit to the article?

I thought the article existed to provide a factual examination of the careers of female first ministers from a neutral point of view. I was of the belief you reverted my edit because it wasn't NPOV. Did you look at the article I linked to? The title of the linked article is "What lead to Alison Redford's resignation." Why state 'she resigned after dropping in the polls' without support when an article that provides a timeline of events leading up to her resignation exists and supports my edit.

Is your concern with the neutrality of my edit or listing "how women have failed at Canadian politics"? The vast majority of politicians, male or female, end their careers in what can be termed 'failure'. Be it losing caucus support, losing an election or resigning for fear of one of the first two taking place. It's not a slight to provide a neutral, honest assessment of why a particular leader resigned.

Could you please be more explicit on how my edit, if supported with the link above, is 'less than neutral'?Schoeppe (talk) 03:52, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

I think what 117Avenue meant by "what of the other leaders" is that we can't give the political details about just one leader's departure and not the others. But doing a political analysis about all of them would bloat the table, so it's probably best to keep the table just about statistics like time in office. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 04:13, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Hello Arctic.gnome. I thank you for the reply, but I don't know why you sent it. Are you going to delete the current explanations for why the politicians left office? Your explanation for the reverts by 117Avenue does not correspond with the explanation they provided. There are reasons in the article given for all of the leader's departures. My edit, despite being supported was not one that 117Avenue found acceptable. 117Avenue was very explicit with their explanation, i.e."The article does not exist to list how women have failed at Canadian politics." The vast majority of politicians fail at some point in their career. A truly neutral article would provide insight as to why the politicians left. No one other than 117Avenue cares enough for this article. I have no intention of investing time in edits that are changed by users because they don't like the 'message' being sent in the edit. Politicians fail all the time. However, 117Avenue found the truth unacceptable, Schoeppe (talk) 05:16, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Arctic.gnome is correct. Each entry has a sentence on how each woman left the position. I think these sentences are neutral, and I think expanding that explanation is too much for a table format. 117Avenue (talk) 01:38, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

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