Wikipedia:Featured article review/History of Limerick/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was removed by User:Marskell 11:33, 29 August 2008 [1].

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History of Limerick

Review commentary

User:Seabhcan (only major contributor and nominator), WikiProject European history and WikiProject Ireland notified

Article needs FA review fundamentally for 1c, having only a single footnote and that without a page number. There is a list of references, but without inline citations its impossible to know where or how they are used. I think there are also some deficencies in 1a, 1d and 2a as well as an image claimed as fair use without an adequate rationale, but these are all fixable fairly simply, unlike the dearth of citations.--Jackyd101 (talk) 09:32, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Comprehensiveness (1b) is a greater concern to me. There is a rather sudden jump from 1200 to 1642, meaning much of the later medieval period, the Tudor period and the plantations is completely excluded. There is another sudden jump within the misnamed "The famine" section, which actually includes details of a time of prosperity. The source of the famine and why Limerick's prosperity fell is not explained thoroughly enough. Half the article is on 20th century history with the remaining half covering over a thousand years; that seems unbalanced. I would like to see more information on the earlier history added to the article. DrKiernan (talk) 15:50, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Limerick is a small city and there just isn't very much documented history for the periods you discuss. For the medieval and tudor periods there is a good deal of information in other articles, but little information is known of how Limerick was specifically faired during these times. ... Seabhcan 15:51, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I can probably accept that but the article on the Plantations mentions the Munster Plantations and that estates in the County of Limerick were seized after the Desmond Rebellions. Is anything further known on this? DrKiernan (talk) 07:35, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Comments In looking for sources, I found Ferrar's 1787 History of Limerick online at the Limerick City Library in several pdf sections and will try to extract some early info from it. Does anyone have access to The History of Limerick City, by Sean Spellissy (1998)? I can't get access to it where I live, maybe someone else can assess it. Thanks ww2censor (talk) 03:32, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Comments: this article is going to need a lot of basic cleanup. I'll list all of the MoS issues if someone succeeds in citing the article. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:40, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Move to FARC. No edits since my last comment, so I haven't listed the MoS issues yet. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:48, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

FARC commentary

Suggested FA criteria concern is referencing. Marskell (talk) 13:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Comment Ww2c is working on this, and given his track record, I'm inclined to hold. ( Ceoil ^sláinte 20:48, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, so I am slow at these FAs, but I am still hoping you can get the Spellissy history book. I can't get it and I really think we will need it to move this anywhere near being complete. ww2censor (talk) 21:02, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Images User:Seabhcan, can you give more details of the copyright of Image:O'Connell St, Limerick City, 1960's.jpg? Did you take the picture yourself, is it a family snap or is it scanned from an old postcard/book? Ideally, Image:Sarsfield.gif should have information about when, who and where it was first published (although it is obviously very old). DrKiernan (talk) 10:19, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

The O'Connell st image is a scan of an old postcard. Unfortunately, the postcard doesn't have any publisher details, or copyright information. ... Seabhcan 19:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, the O'Connell St postcard is certainly not 70 years old and Seabhcan does not hold the copyright on it, so it cannot be PD. The Sarsfield image is found in several places online but they may well all be copies of ours. It is most likely 18th or 19th century but I could not find it easily. Any suggestions DrK? ww2censor (talk) 21:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not terribly fussed over the Sarsfield image, it's probably safe to assume its ancientness. The postcard is published without notice in a foreign country prior to 1996. Providing it has not since been republished with a copyright notice, I believe that makes it public domain in the US. I have updated the tag. DrKiernan (talk) 07:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

• Fixes needed: there are quotes in WP:ITALICS and breaching WP:MOS#Quotations; inconsistent date linking (some full dates are linked, others aren't); WP:NBSP attention needed (example, 7 p.m.); Image captions need to be descriptive (see Celtic Tiger section); missing accessdates as well as incomplete references (example: Limerick City Library); inconsistent date formats in citations (example: ... Press Release. Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism (Ireland) 1999-11-03. Retrieved on August 5, 2008); book sources need page numbers and incorrectly formatted book citations (example: ^ Shalom Ireland: a Social History of Jews in Modern Ireland by Ray Rivlin, ISBN 0-7171-3634-5, published by Gill & MacMillan); mixed citation styles, breaching WP:CITE, {{citation}} is used along with the cite xxx templates, resulting in inconsistent citation style; incorrect use of WP:MOS#Ellipses; incorrect punctuation in image captions per WP:MOS#Captions; incorrect us of WP:MOSBOLD in the WP:LEAD; more problematic, someone should check the prose (sample of less than compelling prose: The arrival of the Normans to the area in 1173 changed everything.) Undercited and uncompelling prose, including parenthetical deviations to other articles), combined with incorrect use of italics: Sarsfield sailed to France with 19,000 troops and formed the Irish Brigade (see also the Flight of the Wild Geese). After these forces had left the treaty was repudiated by the Williamites, for which the city became known as The City of the Violated Treaty and is a point of bitterness in the city to this day. Large amounts of uncited text, sample: No statistics exist on how many people in the Limerick area died during the famine. Nationally, the population declined by an average of 20%, half of whom died and half emigrated. While the Great Famine reduced the population of County Limerick by 70,000, the population of the City actually rose slightly, as people fled to the workhouses. Unless there are dramatic improvements shortly, I'll be a Remove. I stopped there without a serious review; there's likely more, as this was a very quick glance. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
• Remove - I agree with above comments made by SandyGeorgia (talk · contribs). In addition, there are still plenty of sections lacking in-line citations, and the lede of the article is a bit too short and does not provide an adequate summary of the article as per WP:LEAD. Cirt (talk) 18:06, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
• Comment. My main problem is that for about a week nobody seems to work on the article.--Yannismarou (talk) 07:33, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
• This is not that far from keep territory. I was hoping ww2censor would check back in. I'll ping him. Marskell (talk) 08:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
• Comment - I am not certain I can do much without some assistance. As SandyGeorgia says it needs several MOS fixes, some of which I may have introduced with recent edits, but those can be fixed. However, I have looked around for citations for many of the uncited texts and didn't want to remove anything uncited right away before making it comprehensive. The balance of the citations needed must be around somewhere and even though Ceoil said he could get the Spellissy book, that I cannot get, he has not done so yet. Seabhcan, the article initiator, seems to have gone AWOL for the last 6 months except for a few posts, he seems to be offline totally. So I am tending toward a Remove unless there is some other help being offered. ww2censor (talk) 13:21, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

  If Seabhcan isn't digging in, then I'm a remove as well. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll remove. Thanks ww2 for doing your best. Marskell (talk) 10:41, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.