Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Celebrity Big Brother housemates/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 20:21, 10 October 2009 [1].

List of Celebrity Big Brother housemates[edit]

Nominator(s): DJ 22:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel that it is on par with other similar featured lists such as List of Big Brother (U.S.) HouseGuests and List of American Idol finalists. DJ 22:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:24, 23 August 2009 (UTC) Done[reply]
Comments
  • The actions of the participants are recorded 24 hours a day, seven days a week by multiple microphones and cameras situated in each room. - Change "24 hours a day, seven days a week" to simply "constantly". Done
  • On regular occasions, the housemates nominate two other members of the group each - Nominate for what? Done
  • 527 viewers complained to Ofcom during the 2009 series - Per the MOS, numbers that begin a sentence are spelled out. Done
  • Images need alt text. Done
  • Newspapers in the sources need to be italicized. Done
  • 2-column reflist? Done

–Juliancolton | Talk 04:54, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Gran2, support
*Comment - This is a nice list, and I will support it. However, the "Claim to fame" column title doesn't seem very NPOV to me. To me it implies that their notability is only a "claim" and not certain. While this is obviously true for the majority of the people here it isn't very neutral. I think "Occupation" would be better. Gran2 09:07, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Is "Mother of Jade Goody", "Big Brother 2002 housemate", "Non-celebrity", "Mother of Sylvester Stallone" etc an occupation? Could you suggest another alternative wording? DJ 10:07, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see a problem with "Occupation". The examples you've cited are all true, those four people have made careers based on those things ie. Jackiey Budden is not notable whatsoever save for being Jade Goody's mother and has for some reason made a career out of that. But anyway, if you don't like that, how about "Reason for notability"? Gran2 10:37, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done
Is there some reason why the page is called "List of Celebrity Big Brother (UK) housemates"? Because there isn't a page called "List of Celebrity Big Brother housemates" so why the need to specify "UK" in the pagename? There doesn't appear to be any similar list, and indeed wasn't the UK the first "Celebrity" Big Brother series? So I'm not sure that's needed. Gran2 11:05, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's WikiProject precedent. The fact that there isn't a similar list is irrelevant, it is titled this way to avoid confusion with the Croatian, Australian and Pinoy editions of the programme. DJ 12:24, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's hardly irelevant. "List of Celebrity Big Brother housemates" doesn't exist so why the added specification in this page name? If other articles are created in a similar ilk (which seems unlikely), then they should specify the country in the title. This is currently the only one, so it isn't needed here. I'm sure there are numerous people in the world called David Beckham who are not notable enough for pages, but "David Beckham" is called "David Beckham", not "David Beckham (footballer)". It seems illogical to me. Anyone who sees the page will see instantly if it's what they were looking for. And if they were looking for this, I doubt they would be seraching "List of Celebrity Big Brother (UK) housemates" so at the very least "List of Celebrity Big Brother housemates" should redirect to it. Gran2 12:47, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It is also to keep with the title formatting where the seasons are labeled Celebrity Big Brother 2006 (UK), etc. Also if a list for the Pinoy edition was developed it would create conflict. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 17:16, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Right, how exactly would it "create conflict"? Even in the unlikely event it ever got an article it would then be called "List of Pinoy Big Brother: Celebrity Edition housemates". Wikipedia:Naming conventions (television) says "the disambiguator should be added only if multiple articles would normally have the same name". As said, there is no article called "List of Celebrity Big Brother housemates". As for the main series articles having it: "Generally, an article's title should not be used as a precedent for the naming of any other articles." This is not a life-threatening issue, it just doesn't to me make any sense to disambiguate a pagename on the off chance a similar list might be created in the future. Gran2 19:51, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've redirected List of Celebrity Big Brother housemates and Celebrity Big Brother housemates to this article. Can we consider the issue resolved? DJ 22:24, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not really resolved no, because I still think this is illogical. But it's only a minor grumble, as now that the redirect is in effect I suppose there's no problem and I really don't care that much. I'm not going to strike this because hopefully someone else will contribute to the discussion. But I will, now, Support. Gran2 22:43, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree in principle with Gran2, but if this is a WikiProject standard, then a discussion should be carried out first before name changes. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:14, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk),
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • "in which a group of famous people" Why don't you just call them celebrities?
  • "it was made from gorilla and" Fur, I assume? Don't make readers guess.
  • "it was later discovered that the coat was made from Colobus monkeys" Same as above.
  • There's serious overlinking of commonly known terms in the list. Singer? Actor/Actress? Film director? Journalist? Please delink these dictionary-definition-type terms per WP:OVERLINK.
  • Alt text is pretty good, but not sure what ".right" is doing in some of them. Also, remove phrases that are not verifiable by looking only at the images, such as "A curly haired blonde woman poses for photographs" (unverifiable part italicized). Dabomb87 (talk) 01:18, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
All concerns addressed. Dale 22:27, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK, but please do not strike reviewers' comments; they decide when an issue is resolved. I'll come back either later tonight (North American time) or tomorrow to make sure that there are no other issues. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:30, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the delay; will definitely look in soon. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:15, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:45, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Comments from -- SRE.K.A.L.24[c]

Resolved comments from SRE.K.A.L.24
  • On the table, the names should be sorted by last name (you can use Template:sortname), and the notes should be unsortable (put class=unsortable| in front of the notes).
I don't think this should be done as, within Big Brother, housemates are never reffered to by their surname but simply as Chantelle, George, Rula etc. In a similar way that we wouldn't sort book characters this way, I don't think we should sort these people this way in this context. (It's also a bit like how they are reffered to as "celebrities" within the programme when some of them aren't) Dale 17:56, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I also watch Big Brother too (well, the American version), so I totally understand what you are saying. -- [[SRE.K.A.L.|L.A.K.ERS]] 19:24, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • On the guest table, why is it fixed to 75% width? Why not just let it be 100%?
I tried that and it looked a mess - there was too much blank space. Could it stay as it is? Dale 17:56, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ehhh...how about the sortable function? Could that be used on the table? -- [[SRE.K.A.L.|L.A.K.ERS]] 19:24, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No, because some of the rows span over a few lines. And its such a small table, it doesn't need to be sortable really. Dale 15:44, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • On the houseguests table, one column says "Reason for notability", while on the guests table, it's "Claim to fame". Choose either or to be in both. Done
  • Would be nice if the notes are aligned center.
How is this done? Dale 17:56, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Did it myself instead, just so that we won't waste time. -- [[SRE.K.A.L.|L.A.K.ERS]] 19:24, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yay, second Big Brother list nomination!

-- [[SRE.K.A.L.|L.A.K.ERS]] 22:37, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • One more comment, would you be able to format the tables like List of Big Brother (U.S.) HouseGuests, by just removing the rankings, and not including the hometown? If this is too bothersome, just remove the rankings, since its practically the same as the finishes. -- [[SRE.K.A.L.|L.A.K.ERS]] 19:24, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Where the Celebs live is disputed - some sources list Pete Burns as Liverpool, others as Italy. Germaine Greer lives in both Britian and Australia, Coolio lives in both LA and Britain etc and it also borders onto WP:TRIVIA. I don't think the rankings should be removed either - they are important. Dale 15:25, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Currently, the readers have no idea what the rankings are for. Some will probably guess that it is by eviction, but others may not. Best way to fix this is to name the column, or create a key. Also, carefully read what I said. I didn't say include the hometown, since hometowns are usually disputed, and doesn't really matter for Celebrity Big Brother. Is it possible to point out which day that they were evicted, third place, walked, etc.? -- [[SRE.K.A.L.|L.A.K.ERS]] 18:25, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Jpeeling (talk · contribs)
Comments
  • On my computer the middle images (and captions) are partly hidden by the table, this doesn't appear to have affected anybody else but is there any chance the table could be made shorter in width? Making the largely repetitive series column just a year could be an option. --Jpeeling (talk) 21:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would have appreciated it if you had given a reason for not doing this rather than simply ignoring me. --Jpeeling (talk) 23:15, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support, comments resolved. --Jpeeling (talk • contribs) 22:36, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments few nitpicky issues:

  1. Why is it called "Reason for notability " and not just "Profession" ?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:52, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  2. What's the purpose of the Year column?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:52, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  3. The day of eviction should be stated.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:52, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  4. I don't see what the first column is for. You already said in the lead 57 celebrities, no need to count them again.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:52, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  5. A finish column would be useful to compare the various winners.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:52, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with Diaa above that something should be done to further expand on when someone was evicted. Perhaps "Evicted first/second/third/etc"?
  • In addition, could the winners at least be marked by a background color? It would make reading the table far easier, IMO.
Not much to do now, so please fix up remaining issues and then I'll happily promote. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:16, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The gorilla-fur text consumes a chunk of the lead but has nothing to do with the celebrity contestants; it should be moved to the CBB article. There is already plenty intro on the series in the first paragraph so the remaining lead paragraphs should concentrate on the contestants. None of the external links meet our WP:EL policy for this list and should all be removed. Some may be relevant for a CBB article but not a list of housemates article. The twitter link has no place on Wikipedia. Colin°Talk 19:30, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree fully with what Colin has said, though I do not support. Regarding the first paragraph, the link to Big Brother (UK)#Celebrity Big Brother is included, so there is no need to describe what it is in as much detail. It's about the celebrities/housemates, so let's get to the point and read about them. There was one sentence in that paragraph that struck me as odd, too: "...in which a group of celebrities, called housemates,..." I would remove the "called housemates" and stick that here: "The actions of the participants, called housemates, are recorded..." As for ELs, I could accept the official site, IMDB and TV.com at a push, although they're not exactly housemate related, and that is what this page is about. Twitter and Youtube are totally unnecessary. Will be happy to support if these points are addressed either through a decent argument as to why they are here, or action is made to actually fix. Best, Matthewedwards :  Chat  00:46, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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