Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 December 10
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December 10[edit]
Strategic positions for a tattoo[edit]
Okay, so I've been meaning to get a tattoo done, but I'm not sure where to put it. I'm a 21 year old girl, in India. I've seen people get tattoos on their backs, shoulder blades, chests, stomachs, arms... I wear tshirts and jeans, mostly, but also dresses sometimes. Will it be odd if I had a tattoo on my arm? Will it conflict with the image of a petite girl in a party dress? Will getting a tattoo on my neck be offensive when I go to work in a corporate office? Will one on my shoulder blades go to waste because I don't wear shoulder baring clothing often? 223.235.46.179 (talk) 09:42, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
- Have photographs taken of yourself in different clothes and different positions, then draw the tattoo on on your computer, see where it looks nice. HS7 (talk) 10:15, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
- Some of your questions have rather subjective answers. We have no idea what a potential employer is going to think about you having a tattoo on your neck or any place else for many reasons. We have no idea where you intend on working, what the dress code is like there, how conservative the hiring manager is, or even what you plan to have tattooed on your body!
- I work for a large multinational corporation which is fairly tolerant of different hair styles, looks, etc. and I know someone who has her entire arm sleeved with tattoos. She still wears long sleeve shirts even though the tattoos are of flowers and other "pretty" things and also everyone who has worked here more than a few years knows that she's tattooed since she used to not have the job she has now and at that time wore t-shirts.
- You ask if having something on your shoulder blade would "go to waste" but we don't know what "a waste" is to you. Are you getting the tattoo simply to show other people? If so, then it might be a bit hard to show it off there. Or are you getting it just for you and you don't care what others think? If so, then the shoulder blade may be perfect. Dismas|(talk) 11:29, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
- I know a number of people (in the United States) who have tattoos on their shoulders. It's a nice option, because you can easily have it covered up if you need to, but you can also make it quite visible if you want as well. It becomes something you can accessorize with quite well. The fact that it isn't always visible can make it something special, as well. Anyway, all of this depends on the context, of course. In the United States there are some work environments that would never hire someone with a tattoo showing, but the vast majority don't care that much anymore, I don't think. I don't know the case in India. It might also depend on the tattoo's content. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:14, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
- Why not try out some temporary tattoos first?--Shantavira|feed me 14:55, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
- It also depends on what the tattoo is of. A teddy bear on your ankle or a small butterfly on your shoulder could be acceptable in most circles, while a snake wrapped around your arm would not be. — Michael J 16:40, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
- For your own sake, consider that, as you grow older, tattoos tend to droop and fade. I know it is hard to imagine when you are 21, but someday, if you are lucky, you will be 61 or 71. Try to imagine yourself as that older person, perhaps a grandmother, and whether you will still want a drooping, faded tattoo at that age. Tattoo removal is possible, but difficult, painful, and potentially scarring. Marco polo (talk) 02:40, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
- As with many permanent commitments in life, if you have doubts - don't. You are young and your feelings, your work, your social environment may change in the future and may make the decision, one way or the other, clearer for you. Richard Avery (talk) 08:08, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
- Oh, you two. What killjoys. A meaningful, significant, and tastefully chosen tattoo will continue to be as important to one as one wants it to be. I certainly recommend against silly looking ones, but tattoos are a very old tradition, and one need not necessarily spend all of one's decisions (especially one as relatively trivial as this one) worry about what one's 70-year-old future self might think... --Mr.98 (talk) 15:32, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
- They're indeed a very old tradition, but prominent tattoos have had a fairly defined sort of population of users. Of recent times, very prominent tatts have become a fashion item among people for whom fashion is important, and I'm sure many people who get one now do so purely because it's the fashion and all their friends are doing it, not because of any innate genetic drive that would have seen them getting one regardless of their peer group. Like any passing fashion fad, we look back and are shocked to think we could ever have been so crazy as to wear something like that or have our hair that way or whatever, but at least we can simply cease to do those things. Tattoos are much harder to eliminate from our lifestyles once they're there, and so I agree some thought more than "I want to do what all the other robots are doing" is necessary. Call me a killjoy too, if you like. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 19:33, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
- Lord, who suggested they were part of an "innate genetic drive"? Straw man, much. Tattoos are not a passing fad. They've been pretty common amongst a wide variety of people for decades, and in some cultures, centuries. Maybe not in your social circle, or your country, but they are hugely prominent where I live. Let the OP decide if they want a tattoo or not. Let's stop showing our age by lecturing younger folks on how they should skate the straight and narrow. I'm not doubt biased on this point as my wife as a wonderful shoulder tattoo which she got quite a long time ago, and she loves it, it still looks great on her, and I don't anticipate any regrets on her part, certainly not on mine. It's deeply symbolic to her (it's in honor of a friend who died of AIDS), it's well-executed and simple, it's in a spot which is both easily concealable and displayable. The permanence and the pain associated with it were deeply important to her. It's a great conversation starter. It has not consigned her to a life of sadness or destitution; she's a well-educated professional who makes more money than I do. It makes her look a million times cooler than I ever will, and it's a great conversation starter. So ease up, gramps. ;-) --Mr.98 (talk) 18:52, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
- Pretty much everything you wrote confirmed what I said, Mr 98. Your wife's tattoo is "in a spot which is both easily concealable and displayable", the easily concealable bit being relevant since I was talking about "very prominent tattoos". I acknowledged in my first sentence that tattoos are "a very old tradition". The point I was making was that very prominent tattoos are now appearing on groups of people who would formerly have restricted themselves to very small and discrete ones, or, mostly, no tattoos at all. People in this group are doing it for no other reason than that the fellow members of their group are doing it and they want to fit in. This is the fashion fad I referred to. Maybe it hasn't reached your country yet. I do not resile from my advice to give tattoos more than a second's thought, because if you find they're not what you wanted after all, or you did it for the wrong reasons, they are difficult and painful to remove. If that doesn't bother you, please ignore what I said, young whippersnapper. By the way, I am not a grandfather. Not yet. Not as far as I know. No, I couldn't possibly be, since neither of my children has ever married. Not yet. Not as far as I know. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 20:04, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
- Lord, who suggested they were part of an "innate genetic drive"? Straw man, much. Tattoos are not a passing fad. They've been pretty common amongst a wide variety of people for decades, and in some cultures, centuries. Maybe not in your social circle, or your country, but they are hugely prominent where I live. Let the OP decide if they want a tattoo or not. Let's stop showing our age by lecturing younger folks on how they should skate the straight and narrow. I'm not doubt biased on this point as my wife as a wonderful shoulder tattoo which she got quite a long time ago, and she loves it, it still looks great on her, and I don't anticipate any regrets on her part, certainly not on mine. It's deeply symbolic to her (it's in honor of a friend who died of AIDS), it's well-executed and simple, it's in a spot which is both easily concealable and displayable. The permanence and the pain associated with it were deeply important to her. It's a great conversation starter. It has not consigned her to a life of sadness or destitution; she's a well-educated professional who makes more money than I do. It makes her look a million times cooler than I ever will, and it's a great conversation starter. So ease up, gramps. ;-) --Mr.98 (talk) 18:52, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
- They're indeed a very old tradition, but prominent tattoos have had a fairly defined sort of population of users. Of recent times, very prominent tatts have become a fashion item among people for whom fashion is important, and I'm sure many people who get one now do so purely because it's the fashion and all their friends are doing it, not because of any innate genetic drive that would have seen them getting one regardless of their peer group. Like any passing fashion fad, we look back and are shocked to think we could ever have been so crazy as to wear something like that or have our hair that way or whatever, but at least we can simply cease to do those things. Tattoos are much harder to eliminate from our lifestyles once they're there, and so I agree some thought more than "I want to do what all the other robots are doing" is necessary. Call me a killjoy too, if you like. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 19:33, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
- Oh, you two. What killjoys. A meaningful, significant, and tastefully chosen tattoo will continue to be as important to one as one wants it to be. I certainly recommend against silly looking ones, but tattoos are a very old tradition, and one need not necessarily spend all of one's decisions (especially one as relatively trivial as this one) worry about what one's 70-year-old future self might think... --Mr.98 (talk) 15:32, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
- As with many permanent commitments in life, if you have doubts - don't. You are young and your feelings, your work, your social environment may change in the future and may make the decision, one way or the other, clearer for you. Richard Avery (talk) 08:08, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
- For your own sake, consider that, as you grow older, tattoos tend to droop and fade. I know it is hard to imagine when you are 21, but someday, if you are lucky, you will be 61 or 71. Try to imagine yourself as that older person, perhaps a grandmother, and whether you will still want a drooping, faded tattoo at that age. Tattoo removal is possible, but difficult, painful, and potentially scarring. Marco polo (talk) 02:40, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
- Tattoos are indelible (excepting pain and laser). Being thrice+ your age I concluded that little else in life is.
- Maybe some experiences (see pain and laser) are engraved more deeply than tattoos, but they are not superficial ornaments of ephemeral fashion. Personally, I rather wear my tattoos inside. My friends can see them. --Incognito.ergo.possum (talk) 21:15, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
- What mystifies me about tattoos is: why is there so little popularity for temporary bodyart? I mean, there are a few simple stick-on things used mostly by kids, and in some cultures there's henna, but walking down the street in the U.S. I don't think I ever see fashionable adults with such patterns. I'd think in this day and age it would be possible to produce very sophisticated temporary designs for all seasons and occasions. Wnt (talk) 21:53, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
- There's plenty of temporary bodyart at sports events - face painting, temporary tattoos, etc. The tattoo culture is related to the piercing culture - the act of getting the object necessarily includes the pain that goes with it. Getting a temporary tattoo would be like getting a stick-on "piercing", or like wearing a clip-on tie. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:23, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
- I have contemplated super-gluing a silver ball (dragee) to my nose. Seems a lot less painful and permanent. But of course the permanence is part of the "statement", as is the pain to some extent. It is also a rite of passage, a symbol of belonging, as mutilation of various forms has often been (see Yakuza for example). Rich Farmbrough, 13:54, 12 December 2011 (UTC).
- I have a few tattoos. I made the decision for each one through the same process:
- Decide what you want.
- Decide where you want it. Make sure you have really thought it through.
- This is the crucial step: Forget all about it for an entire year.
- Go back and revisit the idea. If you still like it as much as you did a year before, do it.
- I would note that when I got my first tattoo the guys in the shop all commented on how they had covered up their first tattoos because they rushed into them and got something stupid that rapidly lost its charm. A friend of mine got the Misfits skull done on his leg by a home tattoo artist using a knife and a pen during a party. Not to happy with that decision as he got older. (on the other hand I once got a piercing while drunk in a bar using a safety pin "sanitized" with a lighter. That didn't turn out so well either...) Actually, while we are on that subject, make sure you go to a reputable tattoo shop and don't be afraid to ask what kind of sterilization procedures they use. If they are any good they will be more than happy to brag about how careful they are. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:19, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
- I have a few tattoos. I made the decision for each one through the same process:
- There's plenty of temporary bodyart at sports events - face painting, temporary tattoos, etc. The tattoo culture is related to the piercing culture - the act of getting the object necessarily includes the pain that goes with it. Getting a temporary tattoo would be like getting a stick-on "piercing", or like wearing a clip-on tie. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:23, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Looking for books[edit]
I found a couple of childrens' books I thought my brother might like for christmas, but having decided to wait until closer to the time before buying them, I now cannot find them anywhere, or even remember exactly what they were called. One was a book of how things work, with pictures of cave men and mammoths demonstrating scientific principles and such like, and the other was pretty much all you ever need to know about maths, starting with basic addition and subtraction and moving all the way through to complex secondary school stuff and real world economics, and it had a picture of Carol Vorderman on the front. Any idea what either of these was called or where I can buy them, I tried our book shops with no luck.
HS7 (talk) 11:11, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
- If the maths book had Vorderman on the cover, chances are that she is credited as the author, so a search on Amazon might find that one (other online stores exist), e.g. this. The other one might be this?--Michig (talk) 11:20, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
That's the mammoth book, I'm sure of it. The other, though, I can't tell, wouldn't want to buy what turns out to be the wrong one. HS7 (talk) 11:28, 10 December 2011 (UTC)