Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2020 July 4

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July 4

5 hours in the emergency room

Yesterday we took an elderly woman into the emergency room to get rehydrated. She thought it would take an hour - she was there between 4 and 5 hours before they released her.

In recent years, my mother went to the emergency room twice. They kept her there 4-5 hours before admitting her to the hospital. Each time they were doing nothing for the last 2-3 hours, except "waiting for a room to be available". Both times this was late at night.

Does the emergency room get to charge for up to 5 hours of having a patient there? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 04:14, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

What jurisdiction is this? Fgf10 (talk) 08:37, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

In the British NHS, the waiting is completely free of charge. Alansplodge (talk) 18:24, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

In Australia, all treatment in a public hospital (as a public patient) is free of charge. But we pay for it in our Medicare levy. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:51, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

In my (all too large) experience, an admission to ward from A&E in the NHS at does take quite a few hours; 4 or 5 seems fairly typical. One reason is that some tests (such as infection cultures) take a while to come back. Another is that A&E doctors do not themselves admit - a doctor from the relevant ward to which the patient would be admitted comes to A&E, examines the patient's file and test results, and talks to the A&E doctor. There are many cases where the A&E doctor thinks the patient might be admitted, but the specialist from the ward thinks the patient is stable and can be discharged home (perhaps with an outpatient clinic appointment to follow in a few days). As it is the ward doctor that admits, they will generally be the one who decides. Once the ward doctor has decided to admit, they will do the admissions paperwork, and the bed coordinator will have to find a bed. This can be an involved logistical procedure, as the hospital tries to balance its load - empty beds are wasteful, and could be used to shorten the wait of patients waiting for non-urgent elective procedures; but full bed utilisation means there's no spare capacity when unexpected urgent admissions are necessary (of which a certain, but unpredictable, amount always are). Only once their final ward has been determined will a porter be summoned (again, a delay) to actually move the patient. Even once the patient is on-ward, they may not immediately be taken to their bed, as there may be a problem discharging the outgoing person. One novel thing that COVID-19 has brought is a tweak to this - some hospitals now allow A&E doctors to directly admit patients who have (or are quite likely to have) COVID-19 directly to the special COVID ward. They can do this because there are clear COVID-19 criteria, and doing this cuts down on movements of staff (and all the PPE changeroo that entails). In any event, there is no financial incentive for any part of the NHS to "hang on" to a patient unnecessarily like this (indeed, as A&E has a high staffing ratio, it's one of the more expensive places for patients to be). -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 21:07, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

In the United States. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 23:51, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

I would offer some advice but I can't. Elizium23 (talk) 02:27, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

It sounds like you know something that you can't say. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 19:38, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

@Bubba73: Suppose Elizium23 says Wikipedia in general, and RefDesk in it, is not allowed to give any legal advice. --CiaPan (talk) 19:49, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

I wasn't asking for legal or medical advice. I was asking about hospital policy. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 20:27, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Last night the woman who was rehydrated fell. The emergency room kept her for 4+ hours before releasing her. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 20:43, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

That's also very typical. You never really know why someone elderly fell (even if they say "I tripped"), particularly if they're older or in generally poor health. People can have blood pressure or sugar issues, transient neurological issues, effects of medications, or just the general complicated interactions of various conditions (and most of the elderly patients A&E sees have several chronic conditions at once). Quite often the patient is stable by the time they arrive at A&E (and wants to go home); but A&E is fearful that whatever happened may recur, or may be a harbinger of some more serious ailment. The last thing A&E wants is to say "well, she seems okay now, so you go home" only to have things go wrong again a few hours later. So it's a wise precaution just to hang onto them for a few hours and monitor them periodically. Young, otherwise healthy people, who have no other conditions and fewer chances of complications, and whose problem is simple (like someone who shot their hand with a nail gun or was bitten by a dog) are likely to be discharged much more promptly, as there's lower chance they'll have a bad outcome at home and need to be readmitted. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 21:27, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

She is 85, with diabetes. But she was doing well until about 10 days ago when she was in the hospital for about 2 days with pneumonia. She doesn't seem to have gotten back from that. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 23:10, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Bubba73, with the greatest respect and sympathy for both you and your unwell associate, you are (perhaps not intentionally) beginning to verge on asking for a medical diagnosis, which per the disclaimer at the top of this page, Wikipedia is neither competent nor legally permitted to give. Finlay McWalter has given you about as relevant an answer to the hospital policy question as is possible in the circumstances.

If you have further questions which you are sure fall within Wikipedia's permitted parameters, feel free to ask them, but please think carefully about them first. Best wishes from someone who, as it happens, has an unwell 85-y-o mother, and lost an aunt to diabetes. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.56.20 (talk) 10:08, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

I don't mean to ask for medical or legal advice. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 15:06, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

In the U.S., depending on the hospital system (and there are many), some ERs do charge by the hour. Others charge by types of services rendered, or by the level of services needed (less for moderate; much more for critical). And everywhere in between. This is an interesting article that gives various examples of billing practices. Interestingly, it says your wait time, on average, happens to only 2% of ER patients, which in my experience of taking old people to the ER many, many times over the past 5 years, is laughably low, but the state that I live in has a notoriously dysfunctional healthcare system. Most likely the ER was under-staffed, or poorly staffed (subtle difference), especially if this was recently. Here is a CBS News article that discusses ER staffing cuts during Covid. And if money or income level is an issue, you should probably know the difference between Medicare and Medicaid. I hope that your friend's health issues clear-up, but at 85 years old, a realistic outlook might involve seeking advice from a legal and/or medical professional to ensure that she is in the best situation possible to deal with unforeseen medical events, or, conversely, that she is aware of the social safety-net programs that can aid her if she is not. I know it is very hard to be a care taker to someone. Best wishes. Ditch ∝ 03:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

Image

Hi, the question is a bit prohibitive, I couldn't find much; out of curiosity, as far as anyone knows, the election workers pictured here belong to Palm Beach County? Regarding this County, there are only photos of manual recounts but not of machine recounts. Thank you so much. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.41.100.198 (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

height of kneeling

I am about 153 cm tall (60.2 inches). I took a tape measure and kneeled. About 95 cm (37.4 inches). Calculator-153 ÷ 1.6 = 95.625. So I assumed that tall people are short when they kneel by 1.6. Example - 193 cm (76 inches) ÷ 1.6 = 120 cm (47.2 inches). But here is a screenshot of the first Star Wars prequel film of the actor Liam Neeson kneeling to 8-9 year old Jake Lloyd who is about 39-41.6 inches tall (99-105.7 cm). See tall converter. Oh, and here is a image of Jake and Pernilla August who is 67.7 inches tall (172 cm) 172 cm ÷ 1.6 = 107 cm (42.1 inches) 86.135.188.236 (talk) 21:50, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Devil's advocate: In 1) the actor is slouched. In 2) we can't see their feet. 93.136.4.100 (talk) 22:23, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi. I've been unable to find a Wikipedia article that discusses this, but people vqry in the proportion of their height that their legs form. Some people are long-legged and short bodied, others the reverse. This means that the relative height of a person kneeling and standing can vary quite a lot across different people. --ColinFine (talk) 09:32, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

For an earlier related thread, see Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2020 June 13#height of kneeling.  --Lambiam 10:51, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

And here is a image of Ryan Reynolds (188 cm/74 inches ÷ 1.6 = 117 cm/46.1 inches) and 10-year-old Abigail Breslin who is about 110 cm/43.4 inches from the romantic-comedy film Definitely, Maybe. 86.135.188.236 (talk) 20:13, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Again, slouching and/or crouching AND we don't see their feet. 95.168.122.249 (talk) 23:05, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

OK, so I and they crouched. Not kneeled. 86.135.188.236 (talk) 21:41, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

OP, you seem to be seeking a single, precise mathematical rule for calculating any person's kneeling height from their standing height. As ColinFine explained above, there cannot be such a rule, because different people have different body and limb proportions. Such proportions vary both between different ethnicities (and genders), and between individuals of the same ethnicity, and of course change markedly over the course of an individual's childhood and adolescence.

You also seem to be using yourself as a template, and have given your height as "about 153 cm tall (60.2 inches)". If you happen to be the same ethnicity as myself, this would mean either that you are markedly shorter than average (particularly if you are male), or that you are not yet fully adult.

I do not of course know (or want to know) what your ethnicity (or gender, or age) is, but my impression from this and your previous queries is that in pursuing an imaginary universal rule of thumb (no pun intended), you have lost sight of what it is that you really want to know.

Can I suggest that you re-think, and ask a really simple, direct factual question. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.56.20 (talk)

How come the kneeled/crouched adults are a little shorter than the children's heights in the screenshot and images but a bit taller than the kids' in my theory? Oh, and I'm 24. 86.135.188.236 (talk) 19:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Your theory seems to assume that the kneeler is kneeling with their back and thighs vertical relative to the ground (like L), but in the Liam Neelson (ha!) shot, he is obviously leaning his body forward, and we can't see what his legs are doing, and in the Ryan Reynolds shot, he is also leaning forward somewhat, and looks as if his unseen thighs are angled back so that he is almost sitting on his heels (like ∠), or he may actually be squatting.

Also, I question your assumption that Jake Lloyd at age 8–9, when those photos were taken, was only 39-41.6 inches (3'3"–3'5.6"). At age 10, less than 2 years later, he appeared to be about 5' judging from this photo of him standing next to 5'9" Anthony Daniels. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.56.20 (talk) 21:25, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

What about in the Pernilla August shot? 86.132.6.32 (talk) 19:24, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

We can't see either of their feet. Is Lloyd staning on something? Is August standing in a depression? Both? --Khajidha (talk) 21:55, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Tune stuck in my head

For several weeks now, I have had a tune stuck in my head. I can only remember it from time to time, not on command. I have no idea where it's from, but it's probably from an old computer game or TV series. The problem is, I'm pretty much tone deaf and can't tell one note apart from another. I know it only by what it sounds like in my head. Is there some kind of service I could hum it to and it would recognise it? JIP | Talk 23:45, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

JIP, Musipedia has a search tool that works by tapping in a rhythm, if you can do that.

Soundhound is an app that's supposed to work if you hum to it. Elizium23 (talk) 02:24, 5 July 2020 (UTC)