Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/2/9th Battalion (Australia)

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by TomStar81 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 01:06, 27 December 2015 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

2/9th Battalion (Australia)[edit]

Nominator(s): AustralianRupert (talk)

2/9th Battalion (Australia) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Another Second Australian Imperial Force infantry battalion, this one being raised mainly from volunteers from Queensland. Part of the 18th Brigade, the 2/9th was variously assigned to three of the four 2nd AIF divisions throughout the war, but mainly fought as part of the Silent Seventh. They were part of a small number of Australian soldiers who served in the United Kingdom during the war, and then later fought in North Africa, the Middle East and the Pacific. Unlike the 2/3rd, I have no family connection to this battalion, although I have spent some time attached to one of its successor units earlier in my career when combat engineers were needed to re-raise the infantry's assault pioneer capability. Thank you to everyone who takes part in this review. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:31, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. From now on, I'm doing the same things at A-class that I've been doing at Peer Review, and not supporting or opposing. I've copyedited down to Middle East and skimmed the rest, and I don't think prose issues will be a problem at WP:FAC, if you want to take it there after you're done here. At FAC, I'll be happy to support on prose and copyedit the rest, although I may wait until you get one or two supports first. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 03:07, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Dan. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 03:40, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 12:24, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • tool checks are all good.
  • the images are all AWM and taken prior to 1955, so all licences are good IMO.
  • the colour patch blue is a quite a bit louder than the actual colour. Can anything be done about that?
  • suggest in Queensland for the all-volunteer Second Australian Imperial Force (2nd AIF)
  • suggest it was initially supplied with a Regular officer
  • no mention of the quartering of the brigades, ie the departure of the 2/11th
  • suggest a comma after Amidst a sandstorm that limited visibility
  • suggest the sentence beginning In July, they returned is too long
  • consistency with placing the Salient in double quotation marks, suggest all instances be in quotes
  • suggest was withdrawn back
  • worth mentioning what states Tenterfield and Kilcoy are in
  • suggest a comma after unloading stores from ships as they arrived
  • suggest the battalion embarking at Townsville and returned to Port Moresby, where it continued further training in the areas surrounding the port
  • suggest the sentence beginning Following the fighting around Shaggy Ridge is too long.
  • I'm pretty sure Balikpapan is the spelling, not Balikipapan
  • that's me done, great job Rupert! Cheers, Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 12:24, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually, one more from me, structure. Do we have an outline organisational structure for the battalion and any information about changes made over time? Cheers, Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 14:47, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for these comments, I've added what I could find and made other adjustments. Please let me know if you think it needs more work. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 23:32, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • SupportComments - this article looks very good to me, some points / suggestions:
    • Some of the image captions might need full-stops (pls check for yourself I'm unsure of the rules).
    • re battalion structure, Dickens (p.11) refers to its structure on formation in Nov 39:
      • Initially the Battalion was established with a Battalion Headquarters, a Headquarters Wing and four rifle companies, but in early December this organization was expanded into a Battalion Headquarters, a Headquarter Company, a Support Company and four rifle companies (A, B, C & D). Each rifle company consisted of three platoons of 30 men commanded by a Lieutenant... The various specialist platoons in HQ Company were numbered 1 to 6 but were usually referred to by their role i.e. mortar platoon, signals platoon, tank-attack etc.... This contrasts a little to the more generic paragraph you currently have regarding the initial organization of the 6 Div bns during formation, although I think some of that is still relevant so I'd suggest trying to keep the salient points.
    • Some detail of the Bn's time in Australia in 1944 to 1945 should probably be included. Some points from the Bn history which you might consider adding (probably at the end of the paragraph starting "In August 1943"):
      • The battalion regrouped at Strathpine from mid-July 1944 (p. 299), before moving to Kairi on the Atherton Tableland in August 1944 where they conducted platoon, company, battalion and brigade level exercises (pp. 302-303).
      • In November the battalion underwent amphibious training at Trinity Beach near Cairns aboard the British troopship HMS Glenearn and with landing craft manned by Royal Marine personnel (pp.308-309)
      • In late May 1945 the battalion embarked in LSTs with the rest of 18 Bde from Cairns for Morotai (p.319)
    • "It served in the United Kingdom in 1940, forming part of a small Australian garrison sent there to defend against a possible German invasion..." perhaps qualify this by tweaking to "It served in the United Kingdom in 1940, forming part of a small Australian garrison sent there to help defend against a possible German invasion..."
    • Repetitive prose here: "The battalion's final involvement in the war came during the Borneo campaign in mid-1945, when the battalion took part in the landing at Balikpapan..." ("the battalion" twice in the same sentence), consider instead something like: "The battalion's final involvement in the war came during the Borneo campaign in mid-1945, when it took part in the landing at Balikpapan..."
    • "and the following month they were transported to Tobruk by road and sea as German forces surrounded the strategic port in an effort to capture it." This sentence unintentionally might give some readers the incorrect idea that the battalion held Tobruk on its own, as it neglects to mention that it was merely a part of the (mainly) Australian and British garrison. Perhaps tweak it somehow (probably only need to add a few words not a whole sentence etc)
    • Repetitive prose here: "As a result of these losses, the 2/9th Battalion was withdrawn from the fighting and in March 1943, after withdrawing..." (withdrawn and withdrawing in close proximity)
    • "...amidst concerns about a possible Japanese landing..." suggest minor reword to "...due to concerns about a possible Japanese landing..." (you use "amidst" in a previous sentence)
    • This sounds a little contradictory "late on the opening day it was ordered forward to relieve the 2/10th Battalion, taking Klandasan before noon" - specifically "late on the opening day" vs "before noon", was it before noon the next day? Anotherclown (talk) 05:08, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Hi, mate, thanks for these comments. I've tried to deal with them as best I can. To be honest, I'm not feeling well (got a 39 degree temp at the moment), so I'm probably not thinking straight. Please let me know if you think it needs any more work. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 08:21, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Those changes look good to me, so I've added my support now. I added a little bit more re the amphibious training as I thought it was relevant [1]. In particular I found the involvement of British personnel to be an interesting fact which I thought could probably be highlighted. Of cse happy for you to amend if you don't agree. Hope you are feeling better soon. All the best. Anotherclown (talk) 01:54, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • Happy with that change. Thanks: yeah, I agree, I suspect it isn't something a lot of people would know about. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 02:47, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Have amended the bit dealing with Buna-Gona as the chronology as it was just wasn't right - eg, it implied arriving at Oro Bay before the fighting had stated. Hope this helps. I have found a few of the sentences excessively long and some of the text a little repetitive.I will go through it again and make some edits as suggestions. Regards Cinderella157 (talk) 12:14, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I appreciate your time. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 12:33, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Cuprum17 (talk) 21:41, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • In the Middle East section, 2nd paragraph, you use the term "Blue Line". I think I know what the term should mean (maybe I don't!!!) , but would the average reader know?
  • Again, "Red Line"?
    • G'day, excellent point - thanks for this. The average reader probably wouldn't know. I've added an explanatory note to the text for this now. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 23:22, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the Pacific section possible links could include Sanananda and Bogadjim. The links are stubs that don't add much the reader's understanding of the article, but they are there if you want to include them. Your call.
    • Added, thanks. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 23:22, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks for taking a look at the article. Are you happy that the article meets the A-class criteria, or do you think it needs more work? Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 23:22, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Looks good to me! Since this is the first ACR I've reviewed I could be missing something, but I will try to participate and pick up the finer points as I gain experience. Have a Happy Christmas, mate...and I hope you are feeling better. Stay out of the heat. Cheers! Cuprum17 (talk) 23:44, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • Cheers, we desperately need more reviewers at A-class, so it would be a great help to the project if you decide to do more. If you need any advice, there are a few people I'm sure would be happy to help (myself included). Feeling a lot better, temp has gone down now -- turns out I have tonsillitis, which is a weird thing for a 30 year old to get (IMO). Thankfully it has been a bit cooler here the past couple of days (the wet season is back). Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 00:59, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments This article is in very good shape, and I have only the following comments:

  • "It served in the United Kingdom in 1940, forming part of a small Australian garrison sent there to help defend against a possible German invasion, before being transferred to North Africa where they took part in the Siege of Tobruk " - "it" and "they" in the same sentence is a bit awkward, and appears at some later points ("it" and similar work best IMO given that this is about the battalion, and not its soldiers)
  • "its structure varied as the Australian Army determined whether it would use the British Army structure" - bit unclear: did the army keep reorganising the battalion?
  • "Here they manned anti-aircraft defences" - Did the battalion use its machine guns for this, or were the soldiers trained to use heavier AA guns?
    • According to Dickens they seem to have used their integral weapons both for self defence whilst encamped during training activities and to defend nearby posns, for instance "The camp had been erected hastily and there was much to be done... The Vickers guns were positioned for anti-aircraft defence and Bren guns mouonted on tripods in sandbagged pits also served as anti-aircraft weapons in all company areas" (p. 33) also "...the Battalion returned from manoeuvres to find the Wallop aerodrome under attack. 'In our eagerness to help with out Vickers guns mounted for AA we almost shot down a Hurricane..." (p. 40). Anotherclown (talk) 10:06, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • " At this time, the situation for the Allies was desperate" - I think that's an overstatement. The Allies had won the key victory of the war at Midway in May, and were preparing to go on the offensive in the South Pacific in August by landing at Guadalcanal.
  • "this was a significant achievement, representing the first full-scale defeat of the Japanese on land during the war" - is this still considered a "significant achievement"? At Milne Bay two brigades of Australians supported by airpower scored a scrappy victory over a much smaller Japanese force
    • I guess it depends...I've just deleted "significant achievement" and left "first full-scale defeat..." AustralianRupert (talk) 22:15, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "It came at a cost for the 2/9th, though, with the battalion losing 29 men killed and a further 86 wounded" - do sources also note casualties from malaria? (here or in the Gona-Buna campaign?). My understanding is that lots of the soldiers involved in these early campaigns were affected by the disease due to the Army's poor preparations.
    • Yes Dickens has something on this which I've added now. A very good point. Anotherclown (talk) 10:06, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The coverage of the Huon Valley campaign is a bit short - can more be said? (or did the 2/9th not see much fighting here?)
    • I've added a bit on their activities after Shaggy Ridge from Dickens, hope this helps. Anotherclown (talk) 10:06, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do sources discuss the effect on the battalion of being stuck in Queensland during 1944-45? (morale, etc) Nick-D (talk) 05:51, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Dickens doesn't spell it out exactly although he does mention minor breeches of discipline and dress standards etc in places. He does provide this though: "Brigade training instructions for January [1945] stressed the need to combat the feeling of 'anti-climax' caused by the granting of limited leave and the postponement of the Brigade's movement overseas. The situation was seen as a psychological problem and instructions emphasized the need to keep all ranks fully occupied both mentally and physically and to maintain the high standard of enthusiasm and training already achieved... The Army's propensity to use competitions of various types to both add interest to training and to ameliorate boredom has already been noted but by now the program of 'competitions' was becoming very imaginative." (pp. 314-315). Does any of this help? Anotherclown (talk) 10:35, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Actually I have added something on this now, pls amend as req'd of cse. Anotherclown (talk) 10:48, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Thanks for these comments, Nick, and thanks for looking up the Dickens refs, AC. Here is the summary of the changes: [2] Please let me know if you are happy with the changes. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 22:15, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support My comments are now addressed Nick-D (talk) 23:42, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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