Talk:Jamal al-Din al-Afghani

Baha'i connection?

http://www.h-net.org/~bahai/areprint/afghani/namihha/namihha.htm

• Archive 1

  Requested move

  The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

  The result of the move request was no consensus. --Aervanath (talk) 16:57, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

  ---

  Jamal-al-Din Afghani → Jamāl-al-dīn Asadābādī — Please consult the following sites:
  — [1]. An introduction to the Collected Works of Sayyed Jamal al-Din Asadabadi.
  — Iran Digital Library. This site gives the full text of the collected letters of Sayyed Jamal al-Din Asadabadi (collection has been done by Abol-Hassan Jamali Asadabadi and the book has a foreword by one of Iran's all-time greatest scholars, Mohammad Mohit Tabatabai)
  — Iran Chamber Society, by Iraj Bashiri
  — Encyclopaedia Iranica, by Nikki R. Keddie.
  — Wayiran (talk) 14:58, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

  Survey

  Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

  
  

  • Support: Al-Afghani reminds the wrong idea of his Afghan origin, but Asadabadi is neutral point of view. --Wayiran (talk) 15:00, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose. For the title of the page, it doesn't matter where he was born. What matters is that what name is more common in English books and Academic sources. Majority of English Academic sources (including almost all reliable encyclopedias) use the name Jamal-al-Din Afghani or Al-Afghani. Encyclopaedia Iranica is an example of those encyclopedias. Alefbe (talk) 18:43, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Support He was from Asadabad but had to do Taqqiyah. --Nepaheshgar (talk) 15:40, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose - al-Afghani is the most common of his name. The title is used in all other encyclopedias (including Iranica). Tājik (talk) 15:45, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose He was from a big city of Asadabad, Kunar not from a small newly build town in Iran. Beside He referred to himself as an Afghan over dozen times "Al Afghan-Hai" to indicate He was Afghan. And besides there shouldn't be any excuse to not call himself "Iranian" if he really was Iranian Muslim philosphy
  • Oppose Sayed Jamalludin Afghan was born in Asadabad, Kunar Province, Afghanistan. i cann't understand why the Persian people are allways trying to claim things, what belongs to Afghans and Afghanistan. Like they claim, Jamalludin Balkhi (Rumi) as a Persian, like Sayed Jamalludin Afghan, Persian people have even change their country name from Persia to Iran, to claim the history of Ariana, which is the old name of Afghanistan. than i think by my own, don't have you Persian people your own history..? or do you shame you on your history...? to claim someones history as your own!!

  You people have to understand, this is our history, this are our people and not yours. all i want to tell you al wikipedias and specially Persia people, you can write it 100 times (even by help of non Persia people like virtueelSteve or what ever), to claim Afghan stuffs as your owns but the true will not change, they where Afghans, they are Afghans and will be allways Afghans! my dear brother;) get a life:P Abasin اباسين افعان Afghan 23:25, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

  Discussion

  Any additional comments:

  In Persian the proportion of the use of "Asadabadi" over "Alafghani" is 14:1. That means at least in internet, the use of "Asadabadi" is 14 times more than "Alafghani". --Wayiran (talk) 13:05, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

  The reason behind his title of "Alafghani" is that he wanted to hide his nationality and religion, so he used the title of "Alafghani" to show that he is not Iranian and Shia. --Wayiran (talk) 13:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

  The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

  Tag

  This article needs some copy-edit work. First of all, the most common version of his name in English is "al-Afghani" and not "Asadabadi". Therefore, "al-Afghani" should be used in the article. Secondly, due to the many edits and the constant IP vandalism, this article looks very amateurish. Tajik (talk) 15:04, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

  "Asadabadi"

  I propose changing "Asadabadi" used throughout the article to "al-Afghani." Any objections? --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:48, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

  Afghani should be fine. Alefbe (talk) 17:52, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

  From his lifetime, his name was Al Afghani. Why do we change his name to Asadabadi ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.113.246.94 (talk) 20:13, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

  RV

  I have reverted obvious falsifications by an anon IP. Tajik (talk) 22:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

  Jamaludin Afghani, a Tajik?

  It should be mentioned that to modern view of Afghan scholars Jamaludin Afghani was an ethnic Tajik, unnoted his last title since Asabad was during his time a predominant Tajik city. The fake claim of some Iranians on him because of some ridicolous facts (he was a Persian-speaker, possibly his parents moved/fled from Gulnar when Pashtun nomads moved to the region and gained it for their own people->Pashtunization, where Shia and turned out as Sunni etc etc.). With all respect dear writers, but it should also noted the view of Afghan scholars, not only of Iranians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.219.214.232 (talk) 00:32, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

  Encyclopedic content must be verifiable. (Ketabtoon (talk) 00:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC))

  No need to discuss this. Overwhelming documentation, written by al-Afghani himself, proves that he was born and raised in Western Iran. He had several names, inlcuding "al-Istanbuli" and "al-Afghani", always with the pruprose to hide his true identity in order to escape oppression in Iran. Most of his political activity was concentrated in Iran, and some contemporary sources mention that he spoke Persian "with Irani accent". That's why the two major standard literary reference books of orientalistics, Encyclopaedia of Islam and Encyclopaedia Iranica, explicitely state his origin to be in Western Iran. Tajik (talk) 18:25, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

  I reverted the article to the previous version.--Inuit18 (talk) 04:34, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

  Abasin

  Before changing and removing content from the article please discuss it here with other editors and after a consensus you can change it.--Inuit18 (talk) 02:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

  i said i talk with everyone who want to talk tonight, why has this virtueelSteve or what every have blocked me for 31 hours..?

  come and talk, what is wrong with you people..? he is from my province Kunar, Afghanistan if some has there problems with it or is he/she thinking that i am not right, than come and talk. and i will tell all the admins, i have respect for your works, but if you someone block me, this time than you people have choice a side. and i think it is not right for the reputation of wikipedia and your admins.

  it not right that people are playing with Afghan history, for example watch Ahmad Shah Durrani, Balkhi, Afghanistan history and etc. how do you all would feel if people are playing with the history of your country..? i am sure than you people will view it from other side. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abasin (talk • contribs) 23:47, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

  academic sources

  Inuit18, come you with your academic sources and i will come with my academic sources. we will see who is right. so, come with your academic sources please...... Abasin-اباسین 02:39, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

  Instead of waiting for him, gather all your sources and post them here. (Ketabtoon (talk) 04:42, 29 January 2010 (UTC))

  currently three academic sources which is accepted by all Orientalists is used in this article. Encyclopedia of Islam, Encyclopedia of Iranica and Britannica.--Inuit18 (talk) 07:32, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

  Inuit18, you are right about this Encyclopendias, but the qeustion is; who are this people who has edited this Encyclopedias, what is their goal by posting wrong information on this Encyclopedias, are they Persians like you..? if yes, than it is clear but if they aren't Persians than is the qeustion from where have they this information and second, have they any political ambitions or did they first read Encyclopedias like this and have wrong information and than write this Encyclopedias and also the qeustion is, are behind this Encyclopedias the same people..? who use have linked this Encyclopedias to each others....?

  • Read it carefully, it is very important! specially for admins!

  Here this are my academic sources. is it enough or do you want more...?

  1. www.Afghan-Network.net [2] 2. www.studying-islam.org [3] 3. www.scribd.com [4] 4. www.afghanan.net [5] 5. www.laghman.net [6] 6. malaysiana1.blogspot.com [7] 7. krex.k-state.edu [8] 8. lsinsight.org [9] 9. www.afghan-web.com [10] 10. www.america.gov , U.S. Helps Restore a Monument to Afghanistan’s Proud Past 19th Century Afghan Thinker Sayed Jamaludin al-Afghani Honored [11] 11. www.renaissance.com [12] 12. wiki.answers.com [13] 13. www.afghansite.com [14] 14. www.afghanland.com [15] 15. www.bashiransari.com [16] 16. knol.google.com [17] 17. www.facebook.com [18] 18. www.scribd.com , Important Dates in the Life of Sayed Jamaluddin Afghani [19]

  And Except from this, some fact. the fact is that Jamalludin Afghan has claimed himself as a very proud Afghan and not as a Persian, the fact is that Jamalludin Afghan has gived his Bornplace as Asadabad, Kunar province, Afghanistan and not as Asadabad, near Hamedan, Persia. and the qeustion is, how long does this Asadabad village exist in Persia...? the fact is that Jamalludin Afghan has writed a book about Afghan History and not about Persia History, the fact is that Jamalludin Afghans tomb is in Kabul, Afghanistan and not in Persia, the fact is that Afghanistan and Persia has asked for his body, but the world (people with knowleg, not people like on this English wikipedia) has recognises Jamalludin Afghan as a Afghan and not as a Persian, and so give the body remains to Afghanistan. the fact is that persian people are allways trying to make Afghan History their own, for exemple; Jamalludin Afghan, Jalaludin Balkhi (Rumi) and even the History of Ariana by calling their country Iran and not Persian (ARIANA, make from 3 A,s one A, read the first 3 letters of ARIANA in mirror line and place there the 5th letter of ARIANA (the N) and you wil read IRAN so this why i call it Persia and not Iran because ARIANA belongs to Afghanistan and not to Persia. and the fact is that Ariana is one of the old names of Afghanistan (Historical name of Afghanistan).

  By someone else and this writed by some one else about the Conflict between Persians and Afghans about the Nationality of Jamalludin Afghan; Sayed Jamal-u-Din Afghan is one of the greatest scholars that Afghanistan has produced. But there has been confusion surrounding the citizenship of Afghani, which originates from misguided sources. This misunderstanding roots back from the British reporters and agents who suspected the entry and departure of Afghans and foreigners into and from Afghanistan during the late 18th century and 19th century. This is due to the "Great Game" going on at that time between the Czarist Russian Empire and British Empire for the control of the Indian Subcontinent. Iran is disputing the origin of Jamal-u-din Afghan, Iran is claiming that Sayed Jamal-u-din was born in the city of Asad Abad, Iran. This confuses some people because the provincial capital of Kunar in Afghanistan is also called Asadabad. But Jamal-u-din himself claimed in his own writing to be a true proud Afghan. (He was born1839 in Shair Garh, Kunar, Afghanistan)One of the reasons that these rumors was spread about his nationality was because he was a prominent figure in the anti-colonialism compaign against the British Empire in Afghanistan and its neighbours. Western powers used these rumor to destroy his image and start a dispute between the two neighbours. He was also a great promoter of Islamic Unity in India, Afghanistan, Iran and the Middle East. The Western powers also opposed this kind of unity in central Asia and looked at it as a treat to the British and Russian Empire, mostly in Central Asian Republics for Czarist Russia and India and Pakistan for the British Empire.To conclude, there is no doubt that Sayed Jamal-u-din Afghan is an Afghan. In 1944 Remains of Jamaludin was returned to Afghanistan from Turkey. Afghanistan honours this great scholar and has built a monument for his great achievements in the capital, Kabul. This monument is located in the garden of one of the great universities in Asia, University of Kabul.

  for more info visit: wiki.answers.com [20]

  I think that this English wikipedia has choice a side or the admins are who are working on this project are defently Persians, if they where not Persians or have not choice a side than they would place his bornplace as Asadabad, Afghanistan, because his tomb in Kabul, Afghanistan because their are enough aproves that he is a Afghan and not a Persian, he claims himself as a proud Afghan and he claims his own Bornplace Asadabad, Kunar province Afghanistan, in his own Book about the Afghan History. if you people, specially admins. if you thing i am not right; you haven't choice a side and you are not a Persian then you would have placed his Bornplace as both Asadabad, from Afghanistan and From Persia and give refences to it and let the people think what is right in their own point of view, but no, you have claimed his bornplace as Asadabad, Persia, you have writed his name as Asadabadi and you have deleted the picture of the monument of Jamalludin Afghan in Kabul. So than i claim and very one who has a little bite knowlege will claim you as a men/women who has choiced a side or you are a Persian, so automaticly choice the side of Persia sources and claim him as a Persian!!

  In my point of view, what most be the policy of wikipedia (specially English section, because the most of the world people can read and understand English, so it is not right to give the people wrong information. i think it is not right). if wikipedia want to be a neutral Encyclopendi and a respected Encyclopendia, they most place his bornplace as Asadabad, Kunar province, Afghanistan. Because Jamalludin Afghan claims himself as a Afghan, he claims his own bornplace as Asadabad, Kunar province, Afghanistan, he has writed a book about the Afghan history (where he claims himself as a Proud Afghan) and specially because his body was returned from Istanbul, Turkey to Kabul, Afghanistan to give him his finanly rest place.

  The address of the Tomb of Sayed Jamalludin Afghan; Saheed Tomb, Charahi Shaheed, Share-e-Now, Kabul, Afghanistan.

  Abasin-اباسین 15:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

  About the early life of Jamal-al-Din, none of your sources are credible enough (they are not comparable with Britannica or Keddie's article in Iranica). About his tomb in Afghanistan, it's already mentioned in this page. Alefbe (talk) 15:57, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

  It would be nice if you avoid using scribd, facbook and blogs as sources. Since the issue is between Afghans and Iranians (both of them claim that Jamaludin was born in their country), it would probably be a good idea to find outside sources (anything written by Arabs, Turks, Pakistanis, Indians or Europeans/Americans). (Ketabtoon (talk) 16:04, 29 January 2010 (UTC))

  @Alefbe, hahaha i know you are persian, this is why you will never compar it with Persian Enc... because you Persian people can't change it his Tomb place!! if you people could you, you have doned it all ready.

  @Ketabtoon, men think once! did you ever think like, uhm... if he was not born in Afghanistan and he was died in Turkey. Than why have Turkey gived it his remains to Afghanistan and not to Persian...? 1. giving his remain to Afghanistan, is a aprove that he is born in Afghanistan (is a fact), 2, he claims himself as a Afghan (is a fact) and etc, read once again my sources. you want it from other nations, oke i will give it to you. 1. Turkey recognises him as a Afghan by giving his remains back to Afghanistan. 2. Egypt From Reform to Revolution, A Critical Reading of the Political Discourse and Actions of the Islamic Movement in Egypt [21] 3. malaysiana [22] 4. American goverment by: U.S. Helps Restore a Monument to Afghanistan’s Proud Past 19th Century Afghan Thinker Sayed Jamaludin al-Afghani Honored. [23] 5. and www.studying-islam.org recognises him as a Afghan and born in Asadabad, Kunar province, Afghanistan. [24]

  Abasin-اباسین 16:34, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

  I understand what you are saying. However, we have to follow Wikipedia's core policy, WP:VERIFY - anything you add should be backed with reliable sources. Malaysiana is not a reliable source (the author is unknown). The other sources might be OK to some extent, but still. The best thing to do is to find academic books, and you will be able to find tens of books which will confirm that he was born in Afghanistan. I have a 154 page book on Jamaludin Afghan written by an Indian writer, Dr. Shah Abdul Qayoom. The book was written in Urdu and it has been translated to Pashto by Syed Abdullah Pacha and to Dari(Persian) by Abdul Rahim Ahmad Parwani. In this book he clearly points out that he was born in Afghanistan. There is another book on Jamaludin Afghan written by Qadri Qalachi and it has been translated to Dari(Persian) by Abdul Wahed Nahzat Farahi.

  There are a lot of Arabic/Urdu/Hindi language books which confirm that he was born in Afghanistan. All you have to do is to find those books and present them here. (Ketabtoon (talk) 17:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC))

  Even if he was born in Afghanistan, Adabaad, Kunar, local historian consider him as a Tajik neverlessness his last name Afghan. The term Afghan is in modern sense not something ethnical, but a national term, used even by some Hazaras and Tajiks to relate themself with the state with the name AFGHANISTAN. Local historians consider him as Tajik. So what? Pushtuns had never a political movement against British-Raj or against anyone, except the Taliban, Haqqani, Gulbuddini, Al-Qaida movements which were a movement of Pashtun-Arab chauvinism. There was only one time when Pushtuns really were incooperated into a movement, an that was the Roshanian Movement, first established by eastern-Tajiks of Ismaeli faith like Ansari and Bayazid Roshan. But I guess, that Pushtuns were incooperated in the movement was again nothing else than just using of Pushtun people and their ghairat and nang. Tajiks like Jamaluddin Afghani, Maulana Rumi etc. were living in that region before Pashtuns existed and before they came down from the hills of the Sulaiman Mountains and Tajiks/Persians were famous as cultural people, heroes, rulers and sub-rulers, scholars, generals, people of pen before the world could inventate it´s own renessance. Btw, Tajiks always called themself and identified themself with Persians and Persian civilization, not with Pushtuns, Afghans, who were unknown to them since they were living on mountains and Greater India and in Arab states.--94.219.218.150 (talk) 21:55, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

  First of All

  It doesn't mather what he was, a Pakhtun, Tajik, Uzbak, Hazara, Balooch, Nooristani or something else. The fact is that he was a Afghan and born in Asadabad, Kunar province, Afghanistan. We are all Afghans, we are all brothers, we are all the same. By our soul, body, life, mind or whatever. We are like a familly, We are all brothers!! Our eldest Brother is Pakhtun and than Tajik brother, Uzbek brother, Hazara brother, Balooch brother, Nooristani brother and etc. We are all one!! We will never give you Persian people and Britisch people the chance, to make different parts from this brothers!! We will never give you people the chance to break us!! We will never give you people the chance to make pieces from us!! to beat each one of us easly in different parts!! We will late happen this!! put this in your head, full of sawdust and hay!! We where allways one, we are allways one and will be allways one and stay together!! Remembers this, before you next time have the bravados to talk about Afghans!!

  Jamalludin Afghan and the term Afghan

  let me tell you something about Jamalludin Afghan and the term Afghan. His name is Sayed Jamaludin Afghan. Born in Asadabad, Kunar province, Afghanistan. He was a sayed and sayeds are mostly Sunni Moslims. Sayeds are still living in Asadabad, Kunar province, Afghanistan. The name Jamaludin is a name which is gived more to childeren in Afghanistan than in Persia as childname. By calling himself a Afghan, he wants to hide his Persian origins and being a Shi'ia Moslim. This is the theory and philosophy of Persians. i am right..? if yes listen than, if he was a from Persians origins and shi'ia moslim, he wasn't but stil image it like this. By calling himself a Afghan it doesn't means that he is automaticly a Pakhtun and a sunni moslim. Because in Afghanistan lives not only Pakhtun brothers. But also Tajik brothers, Uzbek brothers and etc. In Afghanistan are not only sunni moslims but also shi'ia moslims, hindus and even some jews. The fact that he is a Afghan and Sunni moslim is very clearly. He was a sayed and sayeds are mostly Sunni moslims, maybe even just and only sunni moslims. Sayeds lives in Asadabad, Kunar province, Afghanistan. In the Kunar Province lives 95% Pakhtuns brothers (Afghan proud) and 5% are Nooristanian (proud Afghans) brothers and sisters. So leave Asadabad, my Tajik brothers don't even live in Kunar province. I think it is now enough about Sayed Jamaludin Afghan (The Afghan proud).

  Afghan

  So now about Afghan. The name Afghan is used by Pakhtun brothers from the islamic period to indicate themselfs. But in this time there wasn't any country in the world with the name Afghan or Afghanistan. And it is has not any true that Persians call the Pakhtun brothers Afghans, to identify the Pakhtun brothers. The fact is that Pakhtun brothers called themselfs Afghans from the islamic period. The name Pakhtun comes at himself from Bactria (Afghans call it Bakhteria or Bakhter). The changing from Bakhter to Pakhtun needed more steps. but i will you it in 3 steps, Bakhter => Pakhter => Pakhtun.

  Afghans and the British Raj

  Will we have not only Taliban of Mullah Omar and Hesb-e-Islam of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. But, if we look back in the history. Afghanistan was the only country in the world which was never a colony of British people. The British people are trying to destroy the history of Afghanistan. Because Afghans where the people who has destroyed the dream of British people of making Afghanistan their colony and also their dream of being the rulers of the world. Losing 3 time the war against Afghans and Afghanistan was the start of ending of British people as world power and the ending of the Colonialism and Colonisation, not only in Asia but also in the world. It was also the start of world change, the way of thinking, in the world was changed and etc. People who have fight against the British Raj, where Dost Mohammad Khan, his sons and also Abdul Rahman Khan, Amir Amanullah Khan, Sayed Jamaludin Afghan and many more. And the Persian are trying to destroy the history of Afghans and Afghanistan. In simply way to claim it after destroying.

  Afghans and Persian

  User:inuit18 I guess, you don’t know the history of Afghans or you have very wrong information and based on nothing else than lies of Persian side. One thing is good of you and I like it. You recognises that Afghans people have ghairat, nang, namus, rich history, braves, heroes, leaders, rulers etc and Persian people are be-ghairat, be-nang, be-namus, history less and etc. By saying, they use only the Afghans and their ghairat and nang. Wwwooowww so lovely and feels great, that Persian people have accept that they are BeGhairat, BeNang, BeNamus, History less and etc. just to nice:D Maybe this is the reason why you Persian people are trying to claim Afghan history.

  Rumi

  Jalaludin Balkhi is from Balkh and he was the one who have brought Mili-Attan (The National Dance of Afghanistan.) to Turkey. Now knows to European people as the Rumi Dance. Which is originly founded by Pakhtuns. I don’t care about what he was a Pakhtun or a Tajik. Whatever he was, he was a Afghan!

  Afghans

  Afghans have a very long history of thousands years. Some people say 12 thousand year but there are approves in Kabul museum of 9 or 10 thousand year. I know you have this knowledge from willem vogelsang’s book and I’m sure he has got this information from Persian people. I have no other reasons except this or British people. His name sounds like a Dutch man. By saying things like this, you agree that you have not any knowledge and accept everything from every one. By talking like this you have showed that you haven’t any knowledge about Afghans and Afghanistan. And you people believe even a Dutchmen! I hope you are not coming and say to me that a Hollander knows more about me than myself.

  Heroes and etc

  What do you Persian people have..? Nothing else than liars and slaves. We Afghans have a rich culture, rich history, famous personality like Ahmad Shah Durrani (Ahmad Shah Baba), Mirwais Hotaki (Mirwais Neeka), Khoshal Khan Khattak, Jalaludin Balkhi, Jamaludin Afghan, Rahman Baba, Yama (the first have koning is the history), Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan, Hamza Shinwari, Ghani Khan, Dost Mohammad Khan, Malalai Nia, Nazo Nia, Amanullah Khan. Is it enough or do you want to have more…? We have Ariana, Bakhteria (Bactria), Kushans and many more. Oh i’m sorry you people also claim Ariana as yours…hahah.. sorry but it is to funny. Ariana is one of the Historical names of Afghanistan. Today we have Ariana Afghan Airlines in Afghanistan, Germans are also Arians and they say we are originly from Afghanistan. They don’t say we are originly from Persia.

  Nicknames of Afghanistan

  The Heart of Asia, The Key of East, The Lock of Asia, The Black Poort of World Powers, The Country of Rich History, The Land of Brave, The Land of True Moslims, The Land of Attan and Jirga. Too much to say them all.

  Nicknames of Afghans

  The Gallant People of Afghanistan, The Honorable People of Afghanistan. People of their word, Freedom Lovers, Peace lovers, Cultural People, Land of Brave and many more.

  May god Save us from Fire of Dragon, Poison of Cobra and The Revenge of Afghans!!

  The last 30 year is war in Afghanistan but it doesn’t means that we are culture less, history less, knowledge less or whatever. To stop this image, has Kabul museum started a worldwide exhibition called ‘’the hidden Afghanistan’’ between 2005 and 2007. In this last 30 years is America and their allies, are the second World power who have attacked us after Russia. We are now fighting for our freedom with 40 countries and these 40 countries have the help of 70 countries. We love our Freedom so much that we are ready to die but we are not ready to be the slave of anyone. Freedom is our Habit. Even Alexander the Great knows this!

  Alexander the Great and Afghanistan (Kunar province)

  When the Alexander the great (Iskander) was in Afghanistan, he can’t take the control of Afghanistan. He can’t even capture it. After some time his mother send him a letter and asked him why he can’t capture Afghanistan? He send a letter back with the ground of Afghanistan and write back, in this ground is so much habit, proud, honour, sense of honour, pride that they are ready to die but are not ready to loss their freedom. Alexander the Great lost his first and only battle in Kunar province, Afghanistan. After Alexander the Great was Asadabad called Damkale (Dam, is taked from the Afghan word dama, which means rest and kale is also a Afghan word and means village. so in facts it means rest village). Asadabad was called Damkale because Alexander the Great stays there for some days. The rest place of Alexander the Great.

  I think it is now too much for people like you, who have too much of sawdust and hay in their heads. Or are you now going to VirtualSteve and beg him as your god to block me once again, because you can’t talk like a men, but going as a child, as a wife to VirtualSteve and ask to block me. Go again to your god and beg once again to block me! Or do you think you can have a convention as a knowledge men. And by the way, be a men and give always a reaction with your account and not as a women, only with your ip-address. Do you think we can’t find it out who it was from this ip-address. Abasin-اباسین (Tofaan-توفان) 22:28, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

  I have read the article of Nikki R. Keddie and Persianca Enclopendia a little bite. Nikki R. Keddie write in his article (THE BIOGRAPHIES WHICH WHERE WRITED BY THE PEOPLE WHO KNOWED HIM VERY WELL, ARE DESTROYED WITH POLITICAL INTENTIONS/REASONS). So the qeustion is, who have done this...? Afghans... British people.... Persians... or someone else...? Answer Afghanistan; Afghanistan would never do things like this. Even if they wanted, they are simply not able to do things like this and have also no reasons. British people; well British people want to destroy his image and have also the possibilities and the habit to do jobs like this. as a British people knower. Read this [25]. Persians; Persians want to claim Jamaludin Afghan as a Persian personality and are able to do jobs like this. Let it be clear, his real biographies are destroyed and sometime later comes Persia with letters, with Jamaludin Afghan would have writed and after a time, comes his biographies of being from a Persian origins. Well is it not a little bite strange.... don't do you think so...? Except from this, the Persian people have allways try to claim Afghan history and the personalities of Afghans as their own. To claim Jamaludin Afghan as a Persian, they needed to have proves, to have proves, they needed to destroy the real proves (like his Biographies) and to prove what they are saying is right, they needed to create prove. So what is the true behind this letters..? IN PERSIANCA ENCLOPENDIA, they write (Government of India and Maǰmūʿa sources show that in Afghanistan he called himself the Sayyed “Rūmī” (Anatolian) or “Estanbolī” and claimed to be from Istanbul. The government of India reporter noted that he was a stranger to Afghanistan and spoke Persian like an Iranian.) well he have never claimed himself as a Estanboli or if being from Istanbul. this is what i call the propaganda of Persians! if he is not our, we will also don't late make it yours. well in letters and article wite where writed about him in Afghanistan (when he was in Afghanistan), they write only Sayed Jamalludin Afghan, nothing else. And about he was a stranger to Afghanistan. Well if he was a stranger to Afghanistan. How could he write a book about the Afghan History..? I think it says enough. And except from this i have found 2 books on internet on his biography. Abasin-اباسین (Tofaan-توفان) 23:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

  This are the 2 books.

  Book title: Islam and the Malay-Indonesian world

  Subtitel: Transmission and responses

  Author: Peter G. Riddell

  Publishers: C. Hurst & Co

  Year of expenditure: 2001

  Language: English

  Online available: Yes

  Website: Google Books

  Page: from page 83

  ISBN: ISBN 1-85065-336-4

  Booktitle: The Islamic review, Volume 39

  Website: Google books

  Abasin-اباسین (Tofaan-توفان) 00:09, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

  Changes

  If nobody has objection, i am going to make some changes in this article (look to academic sources).Abasin-اباسین (Tofaan-توفان) 16:10, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

  
  These links are not academic. unless you provide us with academic and scholarly sources we will keep the article as it is. The current information is going no where since three academic encyclopedias(Britannica, Islam, and Iranica) are used.--Inuit18 (talk) 21:34, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

  
  

  Listen now very clearfully to me you inuit18. This Persian and Britianic are not holy!! There are enough academic sources around the world with facts about him and his origin. You can read it very clearly why one is trying to destroy him and other to claim him. So, to the neutrality of these articles becomes doubts. You are really a brainwashed person. hahah so funny men, the books are not academic sources and articles in Persianica and Britianica are academic sources...? hahaha mashallah, i think you are the knowledged person of your family hahaha. if there was writed for example his birthplace as Asadabad, Kunar province, Afghanistan. I am sure, this brainwashed person would never ever accept it as academic sources. Think once men, two countries claims his origin and his remain are gived back to his originally country, and Britianica set his born place as one of the country (Which don't get his remains and would never get it). Don't you think once why has Britianica choice of this countries as his born place and not both. Is this not a little bite strange, don't you think so...? And about Perianica is very clearly to very one. No needs to makes my words dirty about this! So except from this brainwashed person inuit18, has any body any objection..?Abasin-اباسین (Tofaan-توفان) 01:33, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

  Abesin

  Pushtuns are known beeing Kunnia since their creation as a nation. They were known for thousand of years beeing Jews, Arabs and Dravidian mixture with Indo-Aryanic Pakistanis and they were known for beeing cultureless. They were always beeing known for beeing nomads, for beeing anti-civilization and anti-culture since theyself hadn´t anything. They were also known for beeing watanfrosha and dajjalzaia, sons of Dajjal, and enemies of Islam and Khorasan. They were also always known having no culture, no civilization, no art, not an own language, not homes, not lands, not humanic pride, beeing liers, having tails, beeing nomads and the only civilization they knew was TENTS TENTS TENTS AND AGAIN TENTS, Sargin, Talkhan and Sholomba. That´s why they are so afraid and girly of beeing unimportant and that´s why they always claimed and still claim on others history, culture, civilization, country, identity and language. You know and I know. If you don´t believe me or you want accept my words than bring your opposite proofs, otherwise just turn on Television or search on Net for good books, or look for Taliban, tribalism, haramism, kussmadaarzaiye, kunnigari, kusstezan boodan...all the words and thousand other words are linked with Pushtuns. For 100 years, Pushtuns were to 98% uneducated, today to 90%...even those who went to Europe...they kept in their pushtunic uneducated. Last but not least, for 40 years, Tajiks, Hazaras etc. were not knwon beeing Afghans, but Tajiks, Uzbeks, Hazaras, Baluchs, etc. Jamaluddin was not a Pushtun nor did he ever wrote sth in Pushtu. There is not even a link that tie him with PUSHTUNS, neither from any biography of himself nor of someone else. He wrote in Persian, Arabic, Turkish and Russian...but never in Pushtu, why? Do you know why? As I said, no matter if he was from Iran, Afganistan or whereever, he was an Iranian, Tajik and easily a Persian. Lokal scholars from Afghanistan see in him a Persianspeaking Tajik, so what is your problem. As I said, Aughans are nor rich by culture, history, tradition, money, etc. They are only reach of having much Sargin, Sholomba, Talkhan and much much tents and beeing the world-nr.1 Haramis and kun/kusfroshan and the best liers the world have seen. Your fathers were swearing in Qoran while breaking it at the next 2 seconds. Like you, we could add also books here...but just normal books but not scientifc books. My dear brother, please, Kharkuss madarzai Pushtun, don´t vandalize this article, chun in as kheshtak e nane shaadid nabramada, bache Kusstezan Arab e cholchosh. Nanet zare e lenge Punjabi zawar shoda. Zendabaad Tajiks/Persians and Iranians...Pan-Farsism dar kole jahan!!! God bless you--188.97.66.168 (talk) 19:53, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

  Pushtuns are jealous people. It´s a natural phenomene. People who have nothing will always try to catch others pride, history, culture and identity, look on Arabs, Turks and Pushtuns. All three are originating from the same wild barbarian cultureless creatures. Randomly, they feel themself in their believe very strong when words or phenoemens they already know and find it on other cultures, they claim it for themself. They also say Mexico, America, Bulgaria etc,. are taken from Pashtu language, see for this on Pashtu Tolana Faculty. Pathetic people--94.219.208.132 (talk) 12:24, 7 February 2010 (UTC)