Talk:Filiates

Since no discussion has been initiated for this massive additions [[1]] which are extremely POV, they should be removed as per Talk:Igoumenitsa's concensus which was to avoid any comment that isn't precisely related with the town. Also to claim that the town's modern history section links to Cham Albanians (as its main article) is the definition of POV.Alexikoua (talk) 21:52, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Can you show clearly where that consensus is reached? A diff, for example? I don't see anything there. --sulmues talk contributions 06:13, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

The version you provided is clear POV and historically wrong:

• Weird claim that the town's modern history main article is Cham Albanians...
• Vicker's claims are simply based on oral testimonies of local Chams (Cham memorandum.... anonymous eyewitnesses after several decades), and non-verifiable as he says in this paper. Vickers also mystiriously claims that the english bibliography (p. 11) adopts a more pro-Greek approach.
• You completely ignored collaboration of Chams with Nazis but on the other hand you like detailed descriptions on the expulsion.

If a desent version of the wwii events is presented we will have some brief version of the articles: Axis-Cham Albanian collaboration&Expulsion of Cham Albanians. I suggest to adopt Igoumenitsa's version as Cplakidas suggested: [[2]].Alexikoua (talk) 05:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

You are basically telling me that no consensus was ever reached, because all you are bringing is a Cplakidas' suggestion. Would you agree that we put both nazi collaboration and expulsion? To me a collective expulsion (including women and children) equals Genocide. --sulmues talk contributions 03:40, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Language such as "brutal ethnic genocide" has no place on an encyclopedia, particularly if there never was such a genocide. As for the IPs, we have ways of dealing with them. Athenean (talk) 22:03, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

See Genocide, and Expulsion of Germans after World War II it's something completely different. I suggest to add this one:

Until the Second World War the town had a mixed population of Greeks and Cham Albanians.

or

Until the Second World War the town had a mixed population of Greeks and Cham Albanians. In 1944 the Cham community fled to Albania as a result of collaboration activity with the occupation forces during the war.Alexikoua (talk) 05:16, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I wonder why the usual ip army strikes again. Off course ip disruption isn't an argument to support your version like you already claimed in Pyrros Dimas.Alexikoua (talk) 18:58, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Full-protected 3 days

Because of the strong edit-warring amongst all parties, I have fully-protected the article for 3 days. Please discuss and negotiate the issues on this talk page and/or utilize dispute resolution. Regards, –MuZemike 00:01, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Second burning of the town

Some of the wording in the previous version was a strong, but I don't see how the fact that Greek bands burned the town is something that should be ommited. After all the fact that parts of the town were burnt by Albanians is mentioned, so I don't see why the fact that Greeks also burned the town shouldn't be mentioned.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 08:57, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Demi family

Does anyone have a record of the all the known members of the Demi family?--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 23:49, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

4000

According to th WP:RS policy Sakellariou isn't a reliable source and it is to be removed. Also there are many factual errors like the fact that Filiates didn't convert in the 18th century.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 09:24, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

• [3] Copying from the parts avaialable at google search: Michael Sakellariou embarks on a more extended and useful tour: In my opinion he is wrong on all three counts.
• Also many writers seem to consider him unreliable and mistaken on many accounts [4]

--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 10:04, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

The Greek population displayed toleration whenever the action taken did not reveal chauvinist inclinations, as in the case of estamblishment of Albanian "clubs" (in Konitsa, Philiates...

• That is just a small part from a book with nationalist tendencies. After searching about it a bit it seems that this book was followed by "Macedonia: 4000 years of Greek history and civilization". No, such sources aren't reliable and are full of nationalist tendencies like the above mentioned phrase.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 10:50, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually, after searching more he isn't WP:NPOV and the second sentence was against WP:LABEL and WP:EXTREMIST.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 11:05, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

4000?

Actually this book is the definition of wp:rs and I wonder why you are so hostile against every source published by presigious Greek istitutes (same strategy followed in Laiko Vima):

• The book is published by a higly presigious publishing house Ekdotike Athenon, awarded by Academy of Athens (modern) (...the highest research establishment in Greece) and French Institute of Paris.
• These: [[5]], [[6]] don't say a word about Sakellariou being non reliable. You mysteriously mysinterpreted this [[7]] by wrongly concluding that... writers seem to consider him unreliable and mistaken on many accounts.
• When a book says 'X years of Greek history and culture' this doesn't mean that Greek history and culture was in the only one that existed in the region for X years.
• If you disagree with the '4,000 years', [[8]] there were lots of Mycenean settlements in the region.
• There isn't a single nationalist tendency in this quote:
• About the islamization, on p. 315: it doesn't say that it started on 18th cent. it says that a large part of the population converted during 18th cent. (no wonder this is in full accordance with this: Cham_Albanians#Islamization_.2816th.E2.80.9319th_century.29)

The Greek population displayed toleration whenever the action taken did not reveal chauvinist inclinations, as in the case of estamblishment of Albanian "clubs" (in Konitsa, Philiates...

We have a town with two ethnic communities: the one forms armed groups and the other displayes toleration towards this actions since this doesn't reveal any chauvinist inclination. Ok, this is fine, I don't see anything wrong on that.

It's simple, we have a completely wp:rs.Alexikoua (talk) 15:48, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Maybe you didn't check the article, but I have added the islamization part back. Per WP:EXTREMIST the wording "chauvinist groups" can't be used. I have no problem with Greek books in fact I have used some Greek authors as a source in the articles I've written, but this particular book is not rs. And I explained above my reasons for this.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 15:56, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry that's your personal opinion. I'm not in the one to judge top grated institutions. Moreover, it says 'chauvinist inclinations', which the specific 'clubs' had not, as per Sakelariou. You misintepreted the quote and it has nothing to do with wp:extremist.Alexikoua (talk) 16:08, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

After searching more I think that WP:EXTREMIST, WP:EDITORIAL, WP:LABEL apply to it. But I don't want to have a long-lasting argument about it, so we could request from someone uninvolved to help us resolve this.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 16:34, 10 April 2010 (UTC)