User talk:Bill william compton

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Good article review help?

As you're a member of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Sport, I was wondering if you might help with the good article review for netball? :) --LauraHale (talk) 08:20, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate your effort for nominating this article for GA. I'll start my work by tomorrow and it will take maximum seven days for me to review it completely. Bill william compton^Talk 09:01, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Very, very grateful. :D Thanks! --LauraHale (talk) 09:03, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

I think I fixed all the things you adressed and where I haven't fixed them, other contributors have. :) I don't suppose you could check again? :) --LauraHale (talk) 06:41, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

LauraHale, don't loose your patience and remember GA review is not a work of child, it really needs lots of time and concentration. I've evaluated the status of the work done on the article, check the review page and try to resolve recommendations made by me. If that get completes than i'd step into my secondary phase of the review which i think won't be a big deal after that much of changes. Bill william compton^Talk 14:52, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi again. I don't think we can fix the concerns you raised on the netball article good article nomination. The sources do not exist for the information you keep suggesting. And for me and other reviews, the organization you're suggesting doesn't work given the context of this being a game mostly played by women, administered by women, with female spectatorship where the games where the sport is most often played in smaller commonwealth countries.

This impacts on all sorts of things that just make it impossible to follow some of your suggestions. As we can't easily address those concerns in a timely manner and the review has been open for almost a week, can you please either pass the article (I know it is unlikely) or fail the article so that we have some resolution either way? --LauraHale (talk) 00:38, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Reply:I'll finish the review of the article as soon as possible; most probably within one day, i was pretty much busy since last two days. Bill william compton^Talk 05:18, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to repeat my request: Please fail the netball article. You said it didn't pass because it was biased... but you provided no examples of weasel words or biased citations to support this. We've explained the issue that we cannot cite the information you suggested we provide to make a section more complete. You haven't come back with any examples to spell this out. You haven't pointed out specific examples of this. You haven't justified why the tables need to go. You didn't respond in a timely manner to the question regarding if you wanted a prose format for those tables, nor why that was preferable. You didn't explain why this went beyond the scope of the article. Please check Talk:Immaculate Conception Catholic Church (Celina, Ohio)/GA1, Talk:Phillips Exeter Academy Library/GA1, Talk:St Mary's Church, Astbury/GA1, Talk:Ryan Ellis/GA1, Talk:C. W. A. Scott/GA1 and Talk:Louis Clément Ngwat-Mahop/GA1 to see how this is done. If you can't provide detailed information for where things are wrong beyond, get this information which you say you can't get, it is biased and the scope is broad... then fail it. We can't fix bias unless you point to specific examples of it. We can't fix the popularity thing because you don't cite specific examples in the text that show where it is too broad. We can't may seem to want because the sources don't exist. We can't fix the issues of the tables in the competition section because you didn't reply on page as to whether or not you wanted the information in prose format and didn't clearly articulate why these sections were problems to begin with.

If you aren't going to fail the article today, please respond on the talk page for the GA to go into more depth on these specific issues. --LauraHale (talk) 23:07, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Reply: If you needed further explanations of my review than you should ask, there was no need of so much sarcasm. I told you this procedure will take 6 or 7 days, than what's the hurry??, may be you're just limited to Netball, but i'm not; i'm from WP Sport not WP Netball, because of that i see things with different perspective. By giving these examples of other reviews you've proved limitations of your thinking; you've presented here articles about Biographies, Churches and Library (not even a single article about any sport); in spite of giving such examples of no-use you should see these - Association Football, Baseball, Bottle pool, Carom billiards, etc these all are sports' related articles (not about churches); and tell me where you see unnecessary details of sport in different countries or extensive tabular details of tournaments/championships. Before nominating any article you should check whether or not this article is able to get pass the GA review and after seeing your history of nominating articles it becomes very clear that you even don't bother to notice it. You said "i didn't respond in time", but the thing is you weren't able to understand the recommendations i made, and its not my fault that you're so unexperienced in dealing with such issues. I might fail this article on very first day, but i saw potential in it; so i thought if i'd be able to direct you and other users (related to it) than it would definitely become a GA.

I don't know why are you living in a myth that GA means a long and essay like article. I asked you to remove that bulky sections about Netball in different countries and tabular data of International competitions because there're already other articles present for each and every section, so what was the need to include them here also, e.g. if there is an article Netball in South Africa than why you made a whole massive section for it, you could simply add a hyperlink for it, but you didn't, you just copied the whole article and made a full essay type section here; and don't think this is some kind of my personal criteria, check this section "Baseball around the world" (keep in mind its a part of Featured Article, for which one criteria is a Comprehensive details of the subject) and compare it with your section of Netball around the world, actually here the situation is to compare it with Netball in South Africa (or any other such sub-section) and please don't make excuse that Netball is different than baseball and important part of netball isn't spectatorship, but it is participation and this is popular in small nations, that's why you can't remove the chunks of sections dedicated to them.

I called it slightly biased towards the popularity of the game because the whole article is about - how much it's popular in Commonwealth Nations, how it became a popular women's sport just by introducing to different countries, etc but you never mentioned why this sport is still not a part of Olympics, why it took 20 years for IOA to even recognize this sport while many other non-contemporary sports were already being in the list, why this is not as recognizable as basketball, even if both are so much similar, why this game is limited to women only and many other such questions. I think this is sufficient for anybody to question the neutrality of this article. I hope now you'll understand why i'm not passing this article and in spite of questioning my skills of reviewing article you should think about how to resolve these problems. But still you're so stubborn that you won't care any of it, than simply just tell me to fail this article and i bet you in this condition it will never be able to pass the review for GA by any reviewer. Bill william compton^Talk 07:40, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I copy and pasted your response here to the GA article. I also responded there. I still have no idea what you want. I have included a section of the article for you to rework to make acceptable to Good Article Standards. If you don't feel like editing it, then please comment back on the GA talk page for netball specifically detailing, USING EXAMPLES FROM THE TEXT explaining what you needs to be REMOVED, added to, etc.

Reply: If you really want this than i'll definitely do it; right now i'm busy for short while so just wait for few hours. Bill william compton^Talk 08:48, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Netball in Oceania

Netball in Oceania

See also: ANZ Championship

In Australia and New Zealand, netball is one of the most popular sports played by women. It is played by amateurs, semi-professionals and professionals. The ANZ Championship is a Trans-Tasman semi-professional competition that has been broadcast on television in both New Zealand and Australia since 2008. It is the elite competition in the region and contested between five teams each from Australia and New Zealand. It began in April 2008, succeeding Australia's Commonwealth Bank Trophy and New Zealand's National Bank Cup as the highest level of competitive netball in those countries. The 2010 champions were the Adelaide Thunderbirds.

Vauatu Netball Centre

Women's sport in Oceania traditionally has had a very low profile. Despite this, netball is popular in Oceania, with its growth partly responsible because of New Zealand encouraging the game and providing money for the training of coaches, umpires and other netball development needs. Netball is one of the sports at the Pacific Games, a multi-sport event, much like the Olympics, with participation exclusively from countries around the South Pacific that is held every four years. This is an includes nations such as Niue,the Solomon Islands, Tonga and Vanautu, where netball has a large amount of grassroots support. Games are most often played by girls on Saturdays during the winter, though games can be played at all times of the year. The popularity of netball is growing amongst men on the island countries in Oceania, because sport is an important way of villages keeping in touch with each other. At Gay Games VI, several Oceania based teams competed including a transgendered netball from Tonga. The game's popularity can also be seen in local languages, where words have been created to describe it. In Niue, the words include neteplo, pelê neteplo, pelê.

Most Pacific island nations have a national competition. In the Solomon Islands, this competition is the Our Telekom InterProvincial netball competition. In December 2010, there was an award ceremony for the competition, where Honiara won title, earning a cash prize of SBD $15,000. Makira took second place. At the award ceremony, Rennell and Bellonna province won the hosting rights for Islands’ 2011 U21 championships that are to be held in June 2011.

Australia

Main article: Netball in Australia

Toowoomba netball team, 1932.

Netball is the most popular women's team participation sport in Australia. In 1985, there were 347,000 players. In 1995, there were over 360,000 Australian netball players. Throughout most of Australia's netball history, the game has largely been a participation sport; it has not managed to become a large spectator sport. In 2005 and 2006, 56,100 Australians attended one to two netball matches. Of these, 41,600 were women. 46,200 attended three to five netball matches, with 34,400 of those spectators being women. 86,400 attended six or more netball matches, with 54,800 spectators being female. Overall, 188,800 people attended netball matches, with 130,800 being female. In 2005 and 2006, netball was the 10th most popular spectator sport for women with Australian rules football (1,011,300), horse racing (912,200), rugby league (542,600), motor sports (462,100), rugby union (232,400), soccer (212,200), harness racing (190,500), cricket (183,200) and tennis (163,500) all being more popular. The country set an attendance record for a netball match with record crowd of 14,339 at the Australia–New Zealand Netball Test held at the Sydney SuperDome game in 2004.

Mixed netball in Brisbane, Queensland.

During the 1930s in Australia, much of the participation in netball at universities was not organised and players were not required to register. It was believed that this was a positive for netball as it allowed people to participate who might not have participated otherwise. Australia's national team toured England in 1957. This tour resulted in a number of Commonwealth countries meeting together in order to try to standardise the rules of the game. The sport's name "netball" became official in Australia in 1970. In Australia 80% of all netball played is played at netball clubs. The number of netball clubs around Australia has been in decline since the 1940s. Between 1985 and 2003, only two Western Australian towns decreased the distance that netball players had to travel in order to compete; these towns were Brookton and Pingelly. Prior to the creation of the ANZ Championship, the National Netball League was the major competition in Australia. It included teams from the Australian Capital Territory, New South Wales, Queensland, Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia.

The Australian national netball team regarded as the most successful netball team in international netball. It won the first world championships in 1963 in England, and nine of the twelve Netball World Championships. In addition to being the current world champions, it is ranked second on the IFNA World Rankings. Australia beat the Silver Ferns to win the World Youth Netball Championships in July 2009 in the Cook Islands. Australia also has a men's national team. It has competed in the 2009 and 2011 International Challenge Men’s and Mixed Netball Tournament.

New Zealand

Main article: Netball in New Zealand

School netball game in New Zealand, ca. 1920.

In New Zealand, netball is the most popular women's participation sport. In 1984, there were 114,210 players. There are over 11,000 teams and 120,440 players. The only sport that comes close is golf, which has 128,860 male and female players. Ninety-eight percent of New Zealand netball players are female. The next sport with that high of female participation is field hockey and horse racing, both at sixty-four percent. Netball is extremely popular amongst Maori women, who are more active in sport in general than their white counterparts. New Zealand took part in the 1960 netball meeting of Commonwealth countries to try to standardise the rules for the game. New Zealand has a history of netball being a spectator sport with the games being televised on TVNZ. The 1999 Netball World Championships final between Australia and New Zealand was the highest rated program ever on New Zealand television. New Zealand also has a men's national team that has competed in the 2009 and 2011 International Challenge Men’s and Mixed Netball Tournament. As of January 2011, the women's national team was ranked number one in the world.

Cook Islands

Main article: Netball in the Cook Islands

The Cook Islands are a major netball playing country in Oceania, with over 1,000 registered members. The game became popular during the 1970s, and the team has been an important in the region since then. The Cook Islands Netball Association is a member of Oceania Netball Federation. The country has participated at several international events including the Pacific Games, the Commonwealth Games, the World Games, the Oceania Netball Tournament, the World Youth Netball Championship, and the International Challenge Men’s and Mixed Netball Tournament. The women's national team is one of the top ranked in the world. Netball has a lot of grass roots support and an important part of life for many women on the islands. Netball started to grow in popularity during the 1970s. The sport's popularity is partly due to the influence of New Zealand, where Cook Island players have competed for New Zealand's national team. One such player was Margharet Matenga, who joined the Silver Ferns in 1979. Another was Anna Noovao, who was the captain of the New Zealand side in 1992. New Zealand worked hard to develop the sport in the country during the 1980s, when they hosted a number of coaching and umpiring clinics. By 2009, there were over 1,000 registered players in the country. Participating in the international netball community has helped raise the Cook Islands profile globally. The national organisation is a member of Oceania Netball Federation. The Cook Islands won the netball competition at the first South Pacific Games, now Pacific Games, held in 1981. The Cook Islands had their first win in the tournament 1983, when they beat Fiji. In 1986, the government provided $20,000 to help fund the team travel to the 1986 Commonwealth Games in Scotland. The 1987 Netball World Championships were also held in Scotland, and the Cook Islands team came in sixth. At the World Games 1989 in Germany, the team came fourth. In the 1990 Oceania Netball Tournament, the team beat New Zealand, Tonga and Fiji to come in second, behind Australia. At the 1992 World Youth Cup in Samoa, the Cook Islands U-21 team beat several high profile international teams include Wales, Samoa, and England. The Cook Islands defeat of Canada, 114-13, in that tournament was a record for the highest point scored in the tournament. The Cook Islands has a national team that competes in the international Golden Oldies netball tournament. In 2002, the national team ranked seventh in the world. In 2004, a team from the Cook Islands competed in the International Schoolgirls Netball Challenge. The country hosted the 2008 World Youth Championship and the 2009 International Challenge Men’s and Mixed Netball Tournament. As of January 2011, the women's national team was ranked number eleven in the world.

Fiji

Main article: Netball in Fiji

A netball competition at Natalei, Fiji.

Women's participation in netball in Fiji is comparable to men's participation in rugby. The sport started to grow in popularity during the 1970s. Netball has a large amount of grassroots support in Fiji. Games are most often played by girls on Saturdays during the winter, though games can be played at all times of the year. Samoa and Fiji are traditional netball rivals. This rivalry can be seen at events like Pacific Games. Fiji was supposed to host the 2007 World Netball Championship, but a military coup happened. IFNA decided to move the championship to Auckland instead. As of January 2011, the women's national team was ranked number five in the world. Fiji has a men's national team that has competed in the 2009 and 2011 International Challenge Men’s and Mixed Netball Tournament.

Samoa

Main article: Netball in Samoa

Netball has a large amount of grassroots support in Samoa. Games are most often played by girls on Saturdays during the winter, though games can be played at all times of the year. The sport started to grow in popularity during the 1970s. Rita Fatialofa was a Samoan netball player, who later went on to compete on New Zealand's national team. She became the coach for the Samoan national team, qualifying them for every Pacific Games. Samoa and Fiji are traditional netball rivals. This rivalry can be seen at events like Pacific Games. As of January 2011, the women's national team was ranked number nine in the world. Samoa has a men's national team that has competed in the 2009 and 2011 International Challenge Men’s and Mixed Netball Tournament. At Gay Games VI, a transgendered netball from Samoa competed.

Comment I have been asked to look at this review. I assume good faith, but will start by reminding you of Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers. Be gracious and understanding, and avoid intensifiers in commentary. Not all editors are willing to take on difficult projects. This is especially true because you seem to be a newcomer yourself. I looked through the articles you have created but could not see your featured articles or good articles. And apparently have a poor grasp of English. I ask you to strike uncivil remarks and personal attacks.

Assuming WP:NOCLUE, I remind you that unnecessary details is insufficient reason to fail a GAN. Nor is the article on Netball long enough to require it to be broken into subarticles. And your arguments for WP:NPOV are unconvincing. On the face of it, it appears that the article should be passed. It is your call of course. Hawkeye7 (talk) 09:58, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

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Flawed questions of user

If the questions are flawed, maybe you should take it as a sign that you are not being clear and that my questions are a sign of trying to get clarity that you implied on your talk page I hadn't sought. I'm not trying to be difficult. This isn't personal. I want to improve this article. I want to get it to good article status. I'm trying desperately hard to work with you to do that. I added sections. I took away sections. I solicited feedback. I explained why I could not do what you asked. I repeatedly asked for concrete examples of where the text did not meet with your approval towards getting good article status. (I'll not you still have not provided examples in the text of the article of where the article is biased.) All I want to do is either work with you to get the article to good status, or to find some one else to work with. This isn't personal. I just do not understand the points you are trying to communicate to me. It would really help our communication if you could quote the article, directly referencing the text when trying to communicate with me. If we can't communicate effectively, could you find another person to offer a second opinion who can help us resolve our communication gap? (Copy and pasted to Talk:Netball/GA1.) --LauraHale (talk) 09:52, 13 March 2011 (UTC)