Wikipedia:Featured article review/Battle of Tippecanoe/archive1

Battle of Tippecanoe

Battle of Tippecanoe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured article candidates/Battle of Tippecanoe

• Featured article review/Battle of Tippecanoe/archive1

Notified: User talk:Charles Edward, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indiana, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history, talk page 2020-11-30

Kevin1776 could you also notify the Indiana WikiProject ? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:34, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Done as requested. [1] Kevin1776 (talk) 18:42, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Review section

I am nominating this featured article for review because of reasons detailed on the talk page, going back to 2011. Kevin1776 (talk) 16:58, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

• As the nominator does not have plans to work on this article, it may be a candidate for one-week in each phase. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:33, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

• There appear to be significant issues with text-source integrity per Kevin1776's past comments on the talk page and my spot checks of Langguth last month. Primary contributor has noted on article talk page that a lot of the stuff would be in Funk, which IMO may be the weakest of the primary sources, as that publisher seems to be pretty obscure. I also support one-week in each phase, as I have a feeling that this one will need very significant attention, potentially to the extent of a rewrite. Hog Farm _Bacon 17:38, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
• Move to FARC This probably needs a complete overhaul. Definitely a one-week FAR and FARC candidate. Hog Farm _Bacon 23:34, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
• Move to FARC Support one-week FAR/FARC. Femke Nijsse (talk) 14:24, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

FARC section

Issues listed include text-source integrity and reliable sourcing/comprehensiveness Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:19, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

• Delist very serious issues identified. (t · c) buidhe 01:42, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
• Delist Heavy source-text consistency issues. Hog Farm _Bacon 17:50, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Hold in FARC, as work in now ongoing. Hog Farm _Bacon 18:23, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Victoriaearle I see you at work here ... are you thinking this may be salvageable? Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 10:36, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm tied up today but will post here when I get a chance later. Also, I'm thinking about this situation. Removing the star doesn't address source issues, but source issues might not be as bad as they initially appear because of ref bundling. Victoria (tk) 16:52, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm personally uncomfortable with keeping FA and removing the cite check tag unless source-text integrity checks are performed from several sources in conjunction and a source choice check is conducted as well. See Kevin's comments on the talk page about sources that should be used. Hog Farm _Bacon 18:10, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

If you don't want me to work on this, that's fine. There's a lot of work to be done. But my sense is that it's work that's doable. I'm not fast and if there's a deadline, then I should bail out. I did have some comments to make re sourcing, pagination, ref bundling, checking refs during FAC, blah blah, but can easily let it go. Just let me know. Victoria (tk) 18:19, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

No, I'd like to see this worked on, as improvement is the goal, not removing the star. I just want to make sure that this gets a good source review, since it hasn't. I have a copy of Langguth, if you need scans from it I can wikimail some. Hog Farm _Bacon 18:22, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm sure Sandy can vouch for me. I'm strict re source reviewing. So far I've spent less than an hour on this and won't know until really digging in whether it's salvageable. That's why I would have wanted to wait to post - when I know what's what. Victoria (tk) 18:29, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks for giving this one a really thorough look! Hog Farm _Bacon 19:15, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Victoriaearle you go, girl :) Just like old times at FAR, the good ones trying to save stars :) We can only try our best, and if we can, good, if we can't, we tried. Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:02, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

• Posting to the review section - pls move if in the wrong place. My initial assessment based on a small section is that everything in our article is verifiable, with caveats.
  This is an article from back in the day before verification/citation rules were fully implemented or executed. At that time it was common to read a source (book or whatever) or two or three and then write the article in summary style, with everything from all the sources melded together. References came at the bottom of the page if anyone wanted to verify. It made for much better writing, but now we have to cite each sentence.
  The problem with the that type of article is that it's difficult to tease apart which statement comes from which source. Eventually citations were added to some of these articles, and like this one not always perfectly accurately. I'm finding that page numbers & even sources don't match perfectly so it's a job to fix all of that. Spot-checks on articles like this are difficult for lots of reasons.
  I'm at the very beginning of this process, finding sources, screen printing what I can, and then matching as best I can. My sense at this early stage is that article is salvagable, but it will be a job to fix the citations. I think it's worth doing, but it'll take a long time so if time is an issue, then we should delist. Victoria (tk) 00:11, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

  Victoriaearle, I moved it down. The way these pages work, it may be lost if placed above, and we just continue from the FARC phase once it's opened. Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:24, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

  Also, I failed to respond. The Coords are amenable to keeping FARs open if there is steady improvement. It's really, almost, your call at this point, but they need an idea on your timing. Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:26, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

  Yeah look, we've left open FARCs for multiple months if folks are actively working on articles. I am pleasantly surprised. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:24, 8 January 2021 (UTC)