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:::I think there are several misunderstandings going on here. Firstly, this is an article about a person, not the sport, so we shouldn't digress too far into the notability of the martial art itself. In many ways it would have been better to start with an article on the martial art rather than on its founder. But we are where we are. Secondly, sources are relevant for two different purposes: to back up facts, and to demonstrate notability. It is fine to use sources intimately connected with a subject to back up facts (with the proviso that we do not expect them to be as reliable; for example, an actress may choose to knock a few years off her age when interviewed). But we need unconnected sources to demonstrate notability.
:::I think there are several misunderstandings going on here. Firstly, this is an article about a person, not the sport, so we shouldn't digress too far into the notability of the martial art itself. In many ways it would have been better to start with an article on the martial art rather than on its founder. But we are where we are. Secondly, sources are relevant for two different purposes: to back up facts, and to demonstrate notability. It is fine to use sources intimately connected with a subject to back up facts (with the proviso that we do not expect them to be as reliable; for example, an actress may choose to knock a few years off her age when interviewed). But we need unconnected sources to demonstrate notability.
:::The big question for Farid Alizade is this: is he a big fish in a pond of which few outside the pond has heard? If so, by all means promote the pond, but do that somewhere outside Wikipedia, and come back to Wikipedia when the pond is notable. There is nothing wrong with niche communities, but Wikipedia's interest in them fades the smaller the niche becomes. You've produced a very long list of interviews and publicity pieces issued by organisations who work with him. What I was looking for was, for example, a national newspaper that chose to write about him without any prompting from him, his publicist, or an organisation for which he works, or which is sponsoring him in some way. At this point, I am going to bow out because I think I'm verging on [[WP:BLUDGEON]], but I would advise you also to be aware of not only that page, but also [[WP:COI]]. If you are closely associated with the subject of the article, you should declare it, and if you work for him or one of his organisations, you definitely need to declare it. I'm going to drop out now, we really need more diverse input. [[User:Elemimele|Elemimele]] ([[User talk:Elemimele|talk]]) 12:33, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
:::The big question for Farid Alizade is this: is he a big fish in a pond of which few outside the pond has heard? If so, by all means promote the pond, but do that somewhere outside Wikipedia, and come back to Wikipedia when the pond is notable. There is nothing wrong with niche communities, but Wikipedia's interest in them fades the smaller the niche becomes. You've produced a very long list of interviews and publicity pieces issued by organisations who work with him. What I was looking for was, for example, a national newspaper that chose to write about him without any prompting from him, his publicist, or an organisation for which he works, or which is sponsoring him in some way. At this point, I am going to bow out because I think I'm verging on [[WP:BLUDGEON]], but I would advise you also to be aware of not only that page, but also [[WP:COI]]. If you are closely associated with the subject of the article, you should declare it, and if you work for him or one of his organisations, you definitely need to declare it. I'm going to drop out now, we really need more diverse input. [[User:Elemimele|Elemimele]] ([[User talk:Elemimele|talk]]) 12:33, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' this user is a sockpuppet of {{u|Elshad Iman (Elşad İman)}}. He has personal connection with the discussed person (Farid Alizade). [https://www.instagram.com/p/CsgDX8ttMOM/ See his instagram post] ([https://web.archive.org/web/20230608103327/https://www.instagram.com/p/CsgDX8ttMOM/ archive]){{pb}}Also, he has created [[Elkhan Bashirov]] article which was edited by Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) on Azwiki. Also, his discussion style is the exact copy of his. He e-mails or personally contacts people to vote in his AfD/AfU pages, as you can see on this page. Necessary steps should be taken. Could you evaluate this further? Please, help to take global block measurements. I'm writing with this user profile for security issues and I apologize for that. Thanks in advance! {{reply to|Ponyo|RoySmith|Sir Sputnik|Vanjagenije|Oshwa}} sorry for the tag --[[User:Vikiistifadəçi|Vikiistifadəçi]] ([[User talk:Vikiistifadəçi|talk]]) 10:39, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Revision as of 10:39, 8 June 2023

Farid Alizade (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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No independent establishment of notability Amigao (talk) 15:49, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The work in progress template is posted in the article, the World Alpagut Federation cooperates with world important organizations such as TAFİSA and Fair play. links prove the importance of the organization and its leader Farid Alizade.
  1. Alpagut: The Turkic World's Martial Art Making Waves Globally
  2. "3. Dünya Alpagut Şampiyonası", Bursa'da başladı
  3. Alpagut rüzgarı Bursa’da esti
  4. Azərbaycanda I Beynəlxalq Turan Oyunları keçiriləcək
  5. newspaper agazete.com
  6. Azərbaycan Respublikası Daxili İşlər Nazirliyinin Polis Akademiyası
  7. Azərbaycanlı deputat federasiya prezidenti oldu musavat.com
  8. Reviving Turkic Sports: An Interview With Farid Alizade, President Of The International Turan Games Committee — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.191.67.51 (talk) 21:05, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

5.191.26.109 (talk) 21:17, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep He is the founder and first president of the World Alpagut Federation. He is the founder of the Turan games committee. He is an important person who created martial arts in Azerbaijan.--Mehdi Fayyazli (Talk) 09:53, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 00:22, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Being one of the founders of the World Alpagut Federation makes him completely encyclopedic, the man founded the world federation. Pass per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria --Samral (talk) 05:54, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep As per above reasons to have the article kept. Valid links listed above and Authority control, referance ISNI meet the WP:GNG, I think the publication seems OK. Notable in the Azerbaijani context. I am attaching the important document of the World Federation to the discussion. Extract from the Registry of Entrepreneurial and Non-Entrepreneurial (Non-Commercial) Legal Entities / The World Alpagut Federation was accepted as a member of International Martial Arts Games Committee --ETIBARMEMMEDOV TT me 15:06, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Although the consensus is to keep, two of the voters seem very inactive, and the remaining one is the creator who did not edit other pages for two months. Only one user tried to explain adequately.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Timothytyy (talk) 09:50, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete. It's great that he create the martial art, makes him noteworthy, but we need sourcing discussing the individual to be notable for wikipedia's purposes. I'm not seeing that in this case. Oaktree b (talk) 14:44, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weakish delete, I'm far from convinced. Being the founder of the World Alpagut Foundation would be more meaningful if I could find any sources suggesting that this organisation is written-about or known to anyone except the handful of people directly involved in it. For this, and for the International Turan Games committee I am finding only LinkedIn, Crunchbase, Instagram, Twitter, and the organisations' own websites, none of which are even remotely indicators of notability. I'm classing my delete as Weakish because I cannot assess Azerbaijani sources, and there may be stuff out there if I could read it. Elemimele (talk) 12:20, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment If you go a little deeper, then you will abandon your comment. In general, those who comment on this question do not seem to be those who know this area in depth. I think the comments could be more reasonable. It would be nice to get the opinion of those who have a wide and informed opinion in other discussions, for example, let's get the opinion of these two Wikipedians. Dear Necrothesp and Dear CactiStaccingCrane please comment.--ETIBARMEMMEDOV TT me 18:21, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep Dear Oaktree b But these shortcomings do not preclude the existence of an article when the subject of the article is significant. I must say, at this moment, the retelling of the article's view, as presented from your position, has not satisfied me. I suspect that this is your personal opinion. What specific doubts do you have about Alizade's credibility? I see no good reason to delete the article; there are indications of encyclopedic significance.
If any points of significance are controversial or unclear, they should be discussed. If the article contains advertisements, nonsense, or copyvio, they must be deleted. You declare that none of the listed positions give a person significance. But how can you prove it?
Senior managers, members of boards of directors, and similar governing bodies, along with the activities of the enterprise, are represented by independent authoritative sources. You could still consider the subject as a public figure.
Anadolu Agency (tr):
https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/spor/dunya-alpagut-sampiyonasinda-12-madalya-alan-sporcular-yeni-hedeflere-odaklandi/2763314
Türkiye Wikipedia for Alpagut Martial Art (tr):
https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpagut_(d%C3%B6v%C3%BC%C5%9F_sanat%C4%B1)
Haberler.com (News) (tr):
https://www.haberler.com/guncel/kazakistan-da-eski-turk-dovus-sanati-alpagut-11294797-haberi/
HaberTurk TV Official Website News (tr): https://www.haberturk.com/bursa-haberleri/29633502-3-dunya-alpagut-sampiyonasi-bursada-basladi
DHA (Demiroren News Agency) Official News Portal (tr): Bilal Erdoğan attended the Turkic World Ancestor Sports Festival: https://www.dha.com.tr/gundem/bilal-erdogan-turk-dunyasi-ata-sporlari-senligine-katildi-2104540
Ministry of Education of Republic of Turkiye (tr):
1. https://nallihan.meb.gov.tr/www/dunya-alpagut-sampiyonasinda-dereceye-giren-ogrencilerimizin-ilce-milli-egitim-mudurumuz-bayram-benliceyi-ziyareti/icerik/954
2. https://nallihan.meb.gov.tr/www/ilcemizde-sportif-basari/icerik/951
3. https://nallihan.meb.gov.tr/www/turan-alpagut-turk-dovus-sanatlari-kategorisinde-ogrencilerimiz-dunya-sampiyonu-oldular/icerik/845
IHA (Ihlas News Agency) (tr): https://www.iha.com.tr/bursa-haberleri/ata-sporlarinda-renkli-bulusma-3823287/
Inflicts World News Portal: https://inflics.com/arwa-afridi-wins-2-gold-medals-at-world-alpagut-championship/
Parliamentary Assembly of Turkic States (former President of WAF after Farid Alizade):
https://www.turk-pa.org/person/4-nizami-jafarov
Kyrgyz News AKIPRESS: https://akipress.com/news:672155:Kyrgyzstanis_win_4_gold_medals_at__World_Alpagut_Cup_2022_in_Turkey/
Azerbaijani News Portals about Alpagut:
1. http://www.today.az/news/sports/166824.html
2. https://oval.az/azerbaijan-rank-first-overall-medal-table-world-alpagut-championships/
3. https://en.axar.az/news/officialnews/136036.html
4. https://www.news.az/news/world-alpagut-cup-kicks-off-in-baku
Kazakhstan News Portal KazInform: https://www.inform.kz/en/kazakhstan-set-to-revive-alpagut-old-turkic-martial-art_a3409227 Voen.nezer (talk) 10:28, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, but we need sourcing that discusses the person, or we're just blowing smoke. I can't judge the qualify of most of those sources. Oaktree b (talk) 14:17, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't ping me further, I've given my thoughts and have moved on. Oaktree b (talk) 14:19, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • ReplyThe world federation should be introduced to the Wikipedia community in a completely proper encyclopedic tone.

Let's look at the problem that caused the discussion from a different point of view. Alpagut has been around for nine years and already has ties in over 50 countries worldwide. So, isn't English-language media missing out by not covering it?

Dear Elemimele, the sources you listed are social media coverage. I noticed your attempt to prioritize LinkedIn, Crunchbase, Instagram, Twitter directly over Federation sources, frankly I didn't like it when I looked at your comment and that's why I wanted to prepare an extensive comment and present it to you and the community with all the sources.

And yet, it seems its story is somewhat untold in the English language. But let us not be restricted by language, for when we delve into different regions and languages, we discover that Alpagut's story is indeed being told with fervor.

Italy: The Italians, for instance, have embraced Alpagut. From a touching piece in the Milan Newspaper to the recognition from the Italy Kurash Federation the organization has made its mark.

  1. https://www.gazzettadimilano.it/sport/intervista-a-vasif-namazov-fondatore-dellalpagut-vasil-namazov-alpagut-founder/
  2. http://www.kurashitalia.com/alpagut/

Pakistan: The narrative continues in Pakistan. Celebrating their athletes' victory to covering the events, Pakistan acknowledges the impact of Alpagut. The Pakistani media continuous contribute to Alpagut's growing global presence

  1. https://dailytimes.com.pk/508797/pakistans-woman-athlete-wins-two-golds-at-world-alpagut-championship/
  2. https://www.thedayspring.com.pk/tag/2nd-world-alpagut-championship/
  3. https://www.brecorder.com/news/548289
  4. https://www.oyeyeah.com/sports/female-athlete-wins-two-golds-at-the-2nd-world-alpagut-championship/

Iraq: In Iraq, too, Alpagut's influence is apparent. From government portals to universities they're talking about Alpagut.

  1. https://alsabaah.iq/43296-.html
  2. https://mofa.gov.iq/baku/martyrs-of-the-ministry-of-foreign-affair/?paged=40
  3. https://shafaq.com/ar/ريـاضة/عراقي-يحصد-ذهبية-بطولة-الباغوت-العالمية-في-تركيا
  4. https://uowasit.edu.iq/ar/

Kyrgyzstan: Kyrgyzstan joins this global conversation through its own online platform

  1. https://ru.kyrgyztoday.org/archives/340584

Kazakhstan: Kazakhstan echoes the enthusiasm, with its sports portals filled with Alpagut content

  1. https://www.sportinfo.kz/news/show/name/sportsmeny_iz_aktau_zavoevali_pervye_mesta_na_chempionate_mira_po_alpagut_162426.html
  2. https://www.sports.kz/news/sportsmenyi-iz-aktau-zavoevali-pervyie-mesta-na-chempionate-mira-po-alpagut

Russia: Russia joins the chorus, sharing Alpagut's stories

  1. http://www.derbent.ru/press-tsentr/novosti/208706/
  2. https://az.sputniknews.ru/20160118/403403152.html

Azerbaijan: Azerbaijan, too, showcases Alpagut on various platforms, even governmental ones

  1. https://mys.gov.az/en/press/news/n/24435/the-astara-athlete-took-the-1st-position-in-the-v-championship-in-the-alpagut-martial-arts
  2. https://www.fhn.gov.az/index.php?eng/news/xeber/2021/11/24/41733/4/1

Jordan: Even Jordan, with its news portal pays homage to Alpagut.

  1. https://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.aspx?storyid=1096092497&title=Baku-to-host-World-Alpagut-Cup&src=RSS

International Recognition: And there's no shortage of international recognition

  1. https://www.icsspe.org/content/new-member-world-alpagut-federation
  2. http://tafisa.org/supporter-members
  3. http://www.fairplayinternational.org/cifp-members-ordinary-members
  4. https://www.turksoy.org/en-US/news/2019-07-24-4th-festival-of-traditional-sports-of-the-turkic-world-in-bursa-kocayayla
  5. https://www.thenews.com.pk/tns/detail/959596-arwa-the-grappling-queen

Turkey:

  1. https://raillynews.com/2022/07/ata-sporlarinda-renkli-bulusma/
  2. https://www.raillynews.com/2021/11/Alpagut-Eurasian-Championship-will-be-held-in-Bursa/
  3. https://www.trthaber.com/haber/spor/3-dunya-alpagut-sampiyonasi-bursada-basladi-728087.html
  4. https://www.trtspor.com.tr/haber/diger-sporlar/3-dunya-alpagut-sampiyonasi-bursada-yapilacak-203614.html
  5. https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/bilim-teknoloji/turkiyenin-yeni-akilli-dolanan-muhimmati-alpagut-tanitildi/
  6. http://www.tdbb.org.tr/?p=19154&lang=en
  7. https://www.bursa.bel.tr/haber/alpagut-ruzgari-bursada-esti-32356

Turkey, with its several news outlets showcases Alpagut with pride.


Alpagut is well known in the Arab countries, and looking at the Arab sources, the Federation cannot be considered a new creation, and it is obvious that this is not the case. Interesting, right?

  1. shafaq.com
  2. alsabaah.iq

Behind this global recognition is the man who started it all, Farid Alizade, the founder and first president of the World Alpagut Federation. His vision and leadership have undeniably put Alpagut on the map. It's time we recognize him as a 'Wikipedic' person - an individual who has made a meaningful impact worthy of widespread acknowledgment. He is now Executive Member of the Board of World Alpagut Federation and continuously supporting Alpagut.

I spent approximately one hour researching this information on the internet, focusing primarily on resources in the English language. I'm aware that there is an abundance of news in the native languages of various countries which I haven't tapped into all. I am confident that a more thorough investigation would reveal even more about Alpagut. I trust in the fairness of Wikipedia's administrators, and I believe they will take note of this information and will decide to keep this page.

These information that I just searched on the internet for 1 hours. I believe you will find much more about Alpagut.--ETIBARMEMMEDOV TT me 16:04, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's not ultimately my decision, I'm just one opinion. But if you want the article kept, my advice would be to find just three really good sources that are not interviews, press-releases or publicity pieces produced by the organisations associated with Alizade or Alpagut. Just three truly independent articles would be enough. I don't doubt that Alpagut's story is being told with fervour, but fervour isn't helpful: The story has to have been told by someone who isn't closely involved in Alpagut or one of its events. Elemimele (talk) 18:16, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's fascinating that you are asking for sources from third parties who are not affiliated with Alpagut. Are you proficient in Azerbaijani, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Russian, Arabic, Urdu, Hindi, Italian and a few other languages? Because the information I found within an hour includes instances of Alpagut being covered by third parties that have no affiliation with Alpagut. For instance, Etno Sport, which is unaffiliated with Alpagut, has covered it. There are more among the sources I shared, and they outnumber the three you asked for. Have you noticed them?
Moreover, it is essential to note that the sports community is a niche community. You can't expect to find a person or a party unaffiliated and unknowledgeable about the sport to discuss or write about it. It is not a perfume, fashion, or a car where everyone can express an opinion when asked. Only those involved in the community and understand the sport can provide the most informed coverage. ETIBARMEMMEDOV TT me 05:08, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think there are several misunderstandings going on here. Firstly, this is an article about a person, not the sport, so we shouldn't digress too far into the notability of the martial art itself. In many ways it would have been better to start with an article on the martial art rather than on its founder. But we are where we are. Secondly, sources are relevant for two different purposes: to back up facts, and to demonstrate notability. It is fine to use sources intimately connected with a subject to back up facts (with the proviso that we do not expect them to be as reliable; for example, an actress may choose to knock a few years off her age when interviewed). But we need unconnected sources to demonstrate notability.
The big question for Farid Alizade is this: is he a big fish in a pond of which few outside the pond has heard? If so, by all means promote the pond, but do that somewhere outside Wikipedia, and come back to Wikipedia when the pond is notable. There is nothing wrong with niche communities, but Wikipedia's interest in them fades the smaller the niche becomes. You've produced a very long list of interviews and publicity pieces issued by organisations who work with him. What I was looking for was, for example, a national newspaper that chose to write about him without any prompting from him, his publicist, or an organisation for which he works, or which is sponsoring him in some way. At this point, I am going to bow out because I think I'm verging on WP:BLUDGEON, but I would advise you also to be aware of not only that page, but also WP:COI. If you are closely associated with the subject of the article, you should declare it, and if you work for him or one of his organisations, you definitely need to declare it. I'm going to drop out now, we really need more diverse input. Elemimele (talk) 12:33, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]