Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nat Turner

Nat Turner

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Nat Turner (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Because the article is greater than 90 days old, I'm effectively testing whether there is community consensus to draftify per WP:DRAFTIFY.

Five years ago, the article was merged into Nat Turner's slave rebellion. Talk:Nat Turner preserves the history of the merge discussion, which was closed as "consensus to merge" when there was no such consensus. There is related subsequent discussion at Talk:Nat Turner's slave rebellion. Editor LouMichel is rewriting the biographical article, which I applaud, but it should be incubated in a draft space until it is ready for publication. Though I'm therefore recommending Draftify, I suspect some editors will also wish to use this AfD to revisit the merge discussion. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 21:55, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:00, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ghana-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:01, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Virginia-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:01, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:01, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:01, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:02, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:02, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
• Redirect to Nat Turner's slave rebellion#Turner's life with the option to WP:SIZESPLIT in the future if necessary. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 22:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Redirect in it's current form to Nat Turner's slave rebellion, but I am in support of a page for Nat Turner himself in the future. Jebiguess (talk) 22:14, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

• Keep I think there are enough separate facts about the individual responsible for the famous rebellion to give him his own page. For example here. I don't know if that source meets Wikipedia's standards to be reliable. This source looks reliable. There appears to be plenty of WP:RS on Google scholar. --David Tornheim (talk) 22:18, 19 February 2024 (UTC) and per LouMichel. I would support a speedy close of this discussion as Keep per the arguments made by Central and Adams and regular editing between the two articles takes place. --David Tornheim (talk) 22:59, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
• Keep -- No one will seriously argue that Nat Turner fails the GNG, so the only argument put forth by nom is that the present article is in lousy shape. AFD, as is well known, is not cleanup, so this is not a valid criterion for deletion. Central and Adams (talk) 22:29, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

  Response: This issue is not whether Turner merits an article but that a community consensus was made three years ago to merge two articles, making Nat Turner's slave rebellion the primary article. As a result better biographical content already exists but is elsewhere. If a discussion to split the main article had been started, existing content could have been used to populate Nat Turner, resulting is a C class rather than a stub. This is about process, not the merit of the subject. Rublamb (talk) 22:37, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

  That decision isn't binding on anyone now, and we're revisiting it. If the only question is whether it should still be merged that's a question for discussion on the talk page rather than at AFD. AFD is never about process. It's always about the notability (not merit) of the subject. Central and Adams (talk) 22:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

  Good point. I honestly do think the merger is the issue, but here wer are. Rublamb (talk) 22:52, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Keep Nat Turner is an incredibly important figure in American History. He was rated one of the 100 greatest African Americans in Molefi Kete Asante's well-known book. He has had numerous articles, books, and movies made about him. In fact, any in-depth discussion of US slavery and resistance to slavery will almost certainly discuss him. There are numerous articles here on rebels, such as Pemulwuy, Emile Henry, Shields Green, and countless others. Many of them are less famous than Nat Turner. Even the Spartacus article starts with "Little is known about him beyond the events of the war, and surviving historical accounts are sometimes contradictory," so being mostly known for an uprising does not mean the biographical article should be deleted.

Wikipedia's guidelines on Notability say: "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate. The assassins of major political leaders, such as Gavrilo Princip, fit into this category, as indicated by the large coverage of the event in reliable sources that devotes significant attention to the individual's role." No one would argue the rebellion was not significant, and it is obvious that Nat Turner played a significant role.

Why should we have pages for biographical films about Nat Turner and not a page for the person himself? Pulitzer prize-winning books about Nat Turner have Wikipedia pages. Films that are "based on the story of Nat Turner" have pages.

I have started this article again because there was never a proper consensus on merging it into the rebellion article (suggestions for a formal "request for comment" were apparently ignored, and few editors even new the merger was occurring or had a chance to respond). The "consensus" that did supposedly occur did not properly follow Wikipedia's notability guidelines and deleted this page for a very notable historical figure. I recommend that either the previous version of this article before the merger be restored, or we Draftify it and continue working on it to create a version that is distinct from the rebellion article. LouMichel (talk) 22:38, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Comment: The prior version of the Nat Turner article was merged in Nat Turner's slave rebellion and has been improved and expanded over three years by numerous editors. It would be a step backward to simply restore the former article, and would also result in unnecessary duplicate content in Wikipedia. A better solution is to move the appropriate section from Nat Turner's slave rebellion to here. Rublamb (talk) 22:47, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Then do it. This is a matter for ordinary editing.Central and Adams (talk) 22:51, 19 February 2024 (UTC)