Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of characters in The Nightmare Before Christmas

List of characters in The Nightmare Before Christmas

List of characters in The Nightmare Before Christmas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Very little information on this page, no citations. Page not necessary, considering small scope of franchise: 2 video games and 1 movie. ~Auzemandius {talk/contrib} 13:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Even with only notable characters, article would be nothing more than a mirror of the Voice Cast section in the main article. ~Auzemandius {talk/contrib} 14:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. —PC78 (talk) 14:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
• Delete since the article has solely plot detail and no real-world context. Characters' roles can be detailed under the roof of the broader topics, the film and the video games. —Erik (talk • contrib) 14:17, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Merge any useful real-world context that's been added since the beginning of this AFD to the film article and the video game articles with a little cross-referencing. For example, the film article could say, "Some characters from The Nightmare Before Christmas <insert names here> appeared in the Kingdom Hearts video games," and the video games could just mention the origin of some of its characters. I just don't see a compelling need for a separate list since there are not straightforward story arcs of characters like with some other character lists. —Erik (talk • contrib) 13:31, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Comment - Improving this article does not include copying pages from other wikis and pasting the information in the List of Characters. ~Auzemandius {talk/contrib} 14:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Actually, that's incorrect. Per WP:CLN: "Lists are much easier to build (fill) than categories, because entries can be gathered, cut and pasted in from searches and other sources. Brainstorming entries from one's personal education is much easier, because you don't have to hunt for the articles to place the tags on, you simply type the topics into the list." On what basis do you argue otherwise?--otherlleft (talk) 18:27, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
• Keep - per WP:CLN--otherlleft (talk) 17:35, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

There is already a similar list on the main article. ~Auzemandius {talk/contrib} 18:14, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

But it serves point #6 better as a separate page. I'd prefer expanding the list to include all characters in the movie, rather than merely those in the video game or that have their own articles, since lists "may include entries which are not sufficiently notable to deserve their own articles, and yet may yet be sufficiently notable to incorporate into the list."--otherlleft (talk) 18:25, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps inclusion dependent that the character had a notable role in the movie. One editor had added characters that were essentially extras (Invisible Man, who was supposedly seen at the beginning of the movie). Perhaps if a extremely minor character had a greater role or background given in a offshoot of NMBC, then inclusion would be acceptable. However, if this will be the case, that characters from the series will be on the list (I haven't played the games, but if there are new characters in the games), then the page should be retitled to 'List of characters in the Nightmare Before Christmas franchise' or similar.

Just to list random characters who may or may not be important to the plot would be irresponsible. ~Auzemandius {talk/contrib} 18:32, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the lead sentence lends confusion by conflicting with the title of the article itself, and either retitling or repurposing may be in order. However, I would recommend more latitude on how notable each character in the movie needs to be - I haven't watched it in years but if your description of the Invisible Man is accurate he might not make the grade, but in my eyes this list is simply very stubby and can be expanded to include all characters that have names and dialog. Lists permit non-notables to be accumulated in a manner that demonstrates a collective notability.--otherlleft (talk) 18:47, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe the so-called Invisible Man was just that...not visible. ~Auzemandius {talk/contrib} 18:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Keep, navigational page, we have tons of these all over the wiki. --Reinoutr (talk) 22:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
• Delete- It is not necessary, or even appropriate, that every movie or TV show should have a "list of characters" article. This one is an unnecessary, unsourced load of original research and plot summary dressed up to look like a list. Anything that is even remotely useful or encyclopedic is already covered in appropriate detail at the main article. Reyk _YO! 22:32, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
• Comment - I've lended only nominal support, but another editor has been working very hard on referencing this article - those who have voted should review and consider. I won't say it's not poorly written but AfD is not designed for that - I still maintain that it's a notable list of characters from the franchise described.--otherlleft (talk) 01:43, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
• keep Such lists are highly appropriate. It should include every non-trivial character or if the work is important enough, every named character--this is not the type of list where the individual items need be notable to avoid spamming. it;s not like alumni of a school. I cant see the basis for saying that it should include only those significant to the plot--by my standards those significant to the plot should be seriously considered for an individual article. If we really want to have merge discussions here let's amend the policy and figure out how to handle the workload properly. DGG (talk) 03:05, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
• Delete – no need for a character list on a single film. Violates WP:WEIGHT and WP:NOT#PLOT, as the characters can be adequately covered in the film article, and this list is excessive and unnecessary. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 03:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Your reference to WP:WEIGHT confuses me, as it states therein: "Minority views can receive attention on pages specifically devoted to them—Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia." Isn't the point of that section to avoid biasing a larger article with a minority viewpoint? How is it relevant here? Please clarify - I'm ready to change my view if your argument is sufficient.--otherlleft (talk) 04:58, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • The last sentence of the third paragraph of WP:WEIGHT is what's relevant here. It reads Note that undue weight can be given in several ways, including, but not limited to, depth of detail, quantity of text, prominence of placement, and juxtaposition of statements. Sephiroth BCR, I assume, feels that the depth of detail and quantity of text is excessive. I agree. Reyk _YO! 07:18, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • I apologize for adding a second comment, but I had to review WP:NOT#PLOT to avoid an uninformed reply. In what way is a list ever a plot summary?--otherlleft (talk) 05:01, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • When it summarizes plot points, as this article does. Read the paragraphs on Jack Skellington and Sally. Plot points. Reyk _YO! 07:18, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 03:52, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional characters-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 03:53, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. Plot summary tidbits of non-notable characters. Doctorfluffy (robe and wizard hat) 05:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)