You're a scholar and a gentleman. I can assure you that I won't let you down, but you're more than welcome to "stalk" my edits for as long as it takes to assure yourself that I'm capable of civilized behaviour. Thanks also for your advice regarding community discussions which was well-taken. [[User:Doc Tropics|Doc ]] <font color ="green">[[User talk:Doc Tropics|Tropics]]</font > 17:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
You're a scholar and a gentleman. I can assure you that I won't let you down, but you're more than welcome to "stalk" my edits for as long as it takes to assure yourself that I'm capable of civilized behaviour. Thanks also for your advice regarding community discussions which was well-taken. [[User:Doc Tropics|Doc ]] <font color ="green">[[User talk:Doc Tropics|Tropics]]</font > 17:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
:You're welcome. I'm already sure you're capable, and confident there won't be any recurrence. Best. ++[[User:Lar|Lar]]: [[User_talk:Lar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Lar|c]] 17:16, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
:You're welcome. I'm already sure you're capable, and confident there won't be any recurrence. Best. ++[[User:Lar|Lar]]: [[User_talk:Lar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Lar|c]] 17:16, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
== Warning ==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|25px]] Please [[Wikipedia:No personal attacks|do not attack]] other editors{{#if:|, which you did here: [[:{{{1}}}]]}}. If you continue, you '''will''' be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing Wikipedia. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|}}<!-- Template:uw-npa3 -->
Cease your personal attacks in relation to the RfC. Otherwise you will be blocked. As an expeienced Wikipedian you do not need any other warning. [[User:Slrubenstein|Slrubenstein]] | [[User talk:Slrubenstein|Talk]] 08:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I recognize that this user page belongs to the Wikipedia project and not to me personally. As such, I recognize that I am expected to respectfully abide by community standards as to the presentation and content of this page, and that if I do not like these guidelines, I am welcome either to engage in reasonable discussion about it, to publish my material elsewhere, or to leave the project.
My real name is Larry Pieniazek and I like LEGO(r) Brand building elements. Feel free to mail me with comments or concerns if you don't want to post.
Here to leave me a message? Response time varies depending on where I'm active... Ping me if it's truly urgent, or find another admin.
Here about accountability? see my accountability page. Note: The apparent listification of the category (it's back but may go away again) does not change my commitment to my recallability in any way
Please read the two blue boxes :).
A Note on how things are done here:
Being a "grumpy old curmudgeon", I have certain principles governing this talk page which I expect you to adhere to if you post here. (This talk page is my "territory", (although I acknowledge it's not really mine, it's the community's) and I assume janitorial responsibility for it.)
I may, without notice, refactor comments to put like with like, correct indents, or retitle sections to reflect their contents more clearly. If I inadvertently change the meaning of anything, please let me know so I can fix it!
While I reserve the right to delete comments I find egregiously poor form, I am normally opposed to doing so and use monthly random archives instead. If you post here, your words will remain here and eventually in the archives, so please do not delete them, use strikeouts. In other words, think carefully about what you say rather than posting hastily or heatedly.
Edit warring here is particularly bad form. One of my WP:TPW's may well issue a short block, so don't do it.
Interpersonal communication does not work when messages are left on individual users' talk pages rather than threaded, especially when a third party wishes to read or reply.
Being a "bear of very little brain", I get easily confused when trying to follow conversations that bounce back and forth, so I've decided to try the convention that many others seem to use, aggregation of messages on either your talk page or my talk page. If the conversation is about an article I will try to aggregate on the article's talk page.
If the conversation is on your talk page or an article talk page, I will watch it.
If the conversation is on my talk page or an article talk page and I think that you may not be watching it, I will link to it in a note on your talk page, or in the edit summary of an empty edit. But if you start a thread here, please watch it.
I may mess up, don't worry, I'll find it eventually. Ping me if you really need to.
please note this is a personal preference rather than a matter of site policy
I have sent you an email regarding an issue I've come across. Wildhartlivie (talk) 04:38, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Odd. Normally when I get these I'm all like "ya ya, I got it, why'd ya ping me, I check my mail compulsively" but not this time. Did you send it using the "email this user" function? Hasn't arrived yet. Thx. ++Lar: t/c 04:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed. I'll add it to the SPI report ++Lar: t/c 17:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Our lone uploader
An Wikipedia:Uploaders usergroup was created some back in November 2008 so someone could shoot us a few pictures without waiting for autoconfirmed. Brion granted it to one person, Special:UserRights/Heathermtimm, who hasn't edited since then. I'd suggest removing it to keep the group tidy. Iff she returns to properly license the photos, we can undelete them and she'll have 10 edits and no longer need the userright anyway. I asked Brion [1] but he declared talk page bankruptcy before noticing the thread =) –xenotalk 20:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You can ask him again, my understanding of email bankruptcy is that it's a fresh start, not a prohibition on older topics. But it certainly sounds reasonable to remove this user from the group. As for the uploads, I reviewed them, one is very poor quality, one has been replaced by a much better image (with an attached permission pointer to OTRS) and one is one that might be good to have back if the permission can be sorted. I think. So anyway I've removed it for now. One of us should leave a note at Brion's page (that would be you I suggest) and one at Heather's (that would be me) ++Lar: t/c 22:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! I dropped him a courtesy note. I'd guess he's not that concerned about how we structure our userrights over here, but for some reason only stewards can set the flag. cheers, –xenotalk 02:15, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think Uploader would be a useful right to be able to grant for admins, just like Rollback, so perhaps a Bugzilla is in order, because having Stewards need to undo it makes it not very useful. ++Lar: t/c 05:52, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've spoken up there. And don't be afraid of Bugzilla! ++Lar: t/c 03:12, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Not afraid, per se. More lazy. And also I bet someone more technically inclined could file a much more useful bugzilla, i.e. one that identifies the exact code lines needing changed, etc. –xenotalk 03:15, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hmph! That's not me. (the "exact line of code" part, not the lazy part)... I have no idea where the code to change would be without doing the research... but... I'd just model the bug submission after one of the other ones for permissions changes. ++Lar: t/c 03:25, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You would just add uploaders to the sysop AddGroups, so: $wgAddGroups['sysop'] = array( 'rollbacker', 'abusefilter'...., 'Uploaders' );. Prodegotalk 03:29, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Lazing pays off again! ++Lar: t/c 03:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
the worst thing about someone noting that you're trying to be funny is that clearly you're failing... even if you weren't trying in the first place! I confess to being tempted to dropping a note in at the civility poll asking if an admin / steward / wiseman / guru calling a lowly peon a 'shit disturber' should be block worthy, but it depresses me no end to think that some might say 'yes' - now that's really not funny. Happy to chat more about why I genuinely believe my approach to have merit, equally happy to accept grumbles when they come ;-) Privatemusings (talk) 03:35, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I thought you were fucking hilarious;) - Josette (talk) 03:57, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't say he wasn't funny. Oh, and you are one of those two too, to be honest.(you know you are...) :) ++Lar: t/c 05:38, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
she can haz fucking barnstar, too ;) cheers, Jack Merridew 06:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm thinking of giving him a fucking barnstar. We don't seem to have quite the right one, so I guess I'll have to roll my own.
Sometimes it is best to just walk around a bit of disturbing shit you find in your path — quite a common circumstance here as there is a serious problem with all the feral dogs roaming about. Other times is is best to just bury them with a spade to save the next person from an unpleasant experience. Some of the dogs are rabid — at least a half dozen people have been bitten and died here in the last six months — so they've begun putting the worst down and have castrated some tens of thousands to stem the surging population of toxic bitters. The dogs are hard to catch so they are using a lot of strychnine laced baits; the apparently rabid are swiftly shot.
Thanks for your input yesterday — Cheers, Jack Merridew 06:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
To elaborate
To clarify what I meant here, the reasons I think it would be inappropriate for you to assign the uploader user right on this wiki are: this is your home wiki, you shouldn't be deciding who does or doesn't get the right and there is no clear policy for it yet (I don't think that means you should do whatever you think is right, especially on an established wiki). Didn't want to say all of that there as it is already going off-topic. - Rjd0060 (talk) 18:01, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nod. I was pushing the envelope a bit to make a point, it's true. Still, all of those policies have been gradually softening over the last couple of years, as the panoply of things that stewards can do has broadened.
"don't decide", for example... stewards decide things routinely, in such areas as global permissions, global blocks/locks/hides, renames, and on and on and on. But ya... this is taking deciding a bit too close to the edge...
"home wiki", If the action is clear cut, there's not nearly the issue there was once. I routinely turn off admin/crat/CU/OV bits for users on en:wp, either because the request came into m:SRP from ArbCom (where other stewards actually have said they prefer en:wp familiar stewards to do it) or because it was a private request to me... but ya, this is a bit more home wiki centric than those things...
"no clear policy"... what we have is a precedent by Brion to do something. You could argue that either way, but ya...
So anyway, thanks for turning up. I don't think there's really an issue here with the one removal I did, but it's good to talk through stuff, and I probably should strike the remark you were replying to. ++Lar: t/c 21:17, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. Thanks for explaining. Though sure, the policies are being relaxed. I'm seeing this also just as a "watcher". - Rjd0060 (talk) 22:19, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You restored the opening comment and removed the main thrust of his argument, leaving a vague statement which has no bearing on his actual concerns. While poorly phrased, that was essentially a "vote of no confidence" in two of the editors named. IMO, this is a very serious concern, "NO confidence" views have always been allowed in democratic discussions, and I suggest you approach Eric about rephrasing, and allow it to stand. Valid concerns about divisive editors is not the same as incivility or personal attacks, and you know it. KillerChihuahua?!?Advice 15:21, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. I was torn here... I did not think that the initial reversion should stand, and yet the paragraphs I omitted, as written, were personal attacks. I believe it is possible to phrase the "vote of no confidence" in a way that does not violate our NPA policy and I have thought about the phrasing one would use to do so, but it's not my place to put words in Eric's mouth, so I didn't try. I've already sent Eric some urgings but will redouble my efforts. The thing that makes it messier now, of course, is that there are a couple of endorses there now which presumably would need to be removed once the new wording was put in place. I welcome suggestions on how to proceed. ++Lar: t/c 16:37, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
IMO, leave the statement with the endorses, but allow and encourage Eric to phrase his "no confidence" in a way which manages to voice his concerns without insulting anyone personally, and then let both stand. I cannot imagine anyone being such a childish PITA as to complain "Eric got two! How come I only get one!" and if they do, explain there were confusing edits and this is the best solution. It might help to add a parenthetical to the first or second view, such as (edited) or (as intended). Or even rename the one currently there as Another View, or something similar, with no name at all. Any of these are quite workable. One puppy's opinion. KillerChihuahua?!?Advice 16:45, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like Eric's view is not going to be allowed to stand. He toned down his view and posted it but it was removed again... you may want to get further involved. ++Lar: t/c 15:27, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(infoboxes)#Dispute over single articles having multiple infoboxes - VOTE!!!
By all means, delete this thread if not concerned, just an FYI. Sswonk (talk) 19:51, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've kind of lost the thread on that, I'm afraid. But maybe my TPW's could comment. I will try to take a look and see. ++Lar: t/c 05:35, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed... [2] ... Left Xeno a message, and an encouragement to reply here. ++Lar: t/c 14:51, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I saw ;) I'll check back tomorrow as I'm about to shut down for the day. Lots of progress on the portals on meta today. Cheers, Jack Merridew 14:55, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I was going to start the new MFD about 7 days after the restoration. But it could be started now as well, I think Drew is done with the cleanup. –xenotalk 18:36, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever makes the most sense, I just wanted to make sure you didn't forget (but this all was before I saw that earlier, longer thread on your user talk. ++Lar: t/c 18:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
PMAnderson
Part of the bitterness among the factions in the date-linking dispute was due to various incidents of incivility. I won't bore you with all the details, but PMAnderson is complaining about Ohconfucius (and others) addressing him as "Mandy". It was a small but obviously annoying unpleasantry, and frankly I was hoping that such issues had been forgotten. However, in my very humble opinion, I'd advise against further comment as it seems to fan the flames of discord. Hope that helps. --RexxS (talk) 17:05, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK, thanks. I confess I find PMAnderson's own userid confusing, based on his sig. ++Lar: t/c 17:13, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks
You're a scholar and a gentleman. I can assure you that I won't let you down, but you're more than welcome to "stalk" my edits for as long as it takes to assure yourself that I'm capable of civilized behaviour. Thanks also for your advice regarding community discussions which was well-taken. Doc Tropics 17:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome. I'm already sure you're capable, and confident there won't be any recurrence. Best. ++Lar: t/c 17:16, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Warning
Please do not attack other editors. If you continue, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia.
Cease your personal attacks in relation to the RfC. Otherwise you will be blocked. As an expeienced Wikipedian you do not need any other warning. Slrubenstein | Talk 08:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
