User talk:75.5.253.232

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did to WP:Articles for deletion/International Sport Combat Federation. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Niteshift36 (talk) 23:28, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm on the west coast....of Florida. Not quite the same. Steve, this isn't about what I want. I wasn't the only editor that !voted to delete it. I gave you links to a couple of policies that would illustrate what the issues with the article are, but you said you don't have time to read them. If you sanctioned an event and told a fighter during a match that he violated a rule and his answer was "who has time to read rules", what would you do? Just excuse him from having to follow them because he doesn't have time? Or would you continue to abide by the rules and if he disqualified himself, well he'll make time to read them next time, won't he. You've made this sound very personal and you've made this personal towards me. I'll be honest, had you started out with an attitude like "hey, I think we're notable, could you give us a hand", I'd be a lot more inclined to do a lot of leg work for you than after I've been insulted, told how stupid and uninformed I am. I'm working on saving an article right now that is up for deletion. I initially was in favor of deleting it, but other editors talked to me (not down to me or insulting) and asked for help. They're getting it. One of the most interesting and frustrating things to read here is WP:TRUTH. It doesn't matter what you or I know is true, it only matters what we can show through reliable sources. The first thing is to establish that the org is notable. You can find the notability standard at WP:ORG. Please note, you can't really establish it by using your own website. You need verifiable coverage from reliable outside sources. That's your first big battle. That should get you started on the right track. Niteshift36 (talk) 02:20, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Response

I did not remove your article. I nominated it for deletion. Other editors gave their opinion and the result was that the article was deleted. I do not have the power to remove an article. It would take you only a couple of minutes to read the discussion and see that see why it was deleted. The short version is that there is a lack of significant coverage by independent, reliable sources. Mere mentions and trivial coverage don't get you past the notability standards. It doesn't matter if you sanction 1000 matches a year, if there isn't significant coverage of the organization, it doesn't meet the notability standards. You claim the rules are confusing, but you haven't even given any indication that you've read them. When I suggested you read them, and provided you with links to them, you told me you didn't have time for it. You keep asking what I want (like this is only my site) and then you won't listen to the answers. I will not be calling you. I will not be emailing you. I won't even be discussing this anymore as long as you refuse to even make the barest of efforts and at least read the policies. Niteshift36 (talk) 05:31, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

• Now this is a conspiracy? You think someone is "directing me" to do something? That's hysterical. You keep claiming I won't help, but you refuse the help that is offered. Don't waste time making ridiculous accusations about someone directing me to dom something and instead, use the time to read. Niteshift36 (talk) 05:50, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

1-18-10: WE DID READ WHAT YOU DIRECTED US TO! It seems, just because we don't have a lot of press about the ISCF out there, "YOU" choose to think we are not worthy of Wikapedia! You ask us to READ, and we did. Why can't you read what we have explained to you? Instead, you think we are a "PROMOTIONAL COMPANY" That signs fighters and creates our own champions! This IS NOT what we do!!! How many ways do we need to explain this to you? WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST US? Are you simply upset because you truly do not know what a SANCTIONING BODY DOES? Conspiracy? We never said this, YOU DID! We would like nothing else but not to waste reading all these ridiculous accusations, but lets call it as it is, YOU MADE THEM, so WHY are you mad at us for explaining to you where you are wrong? Are you really that sensitive? We are not trying to be jerks here. We just want to know what YOU and WIKAPEDIA want. We have read everything you have directed us to. We have looked at a TON of other Wikapedia sites, and we are STILL LOST! Put our site back up and we will delete all you want since we are not on TV, written up in loads of magazines, web sites, etc. etc. Our job is not to promote US, we help other Promoters by making them noticed within the media. Do you REALLY think all those events on our news pages were "MADE UP!?!?!?" WHY and How would we do such a thing? Your accusations about us are insulting, saying "WE" don't "SIGN" fighters like UFC, Strikeforce, etc. THIS IS NOT OUR JOB!!! THIS IS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST! But you fail to "FULLY" understand this. Do you see a "Nevada State Commission Champion?" Do you hear of a FLORIDA State Commission Champion?" NO! Why? Because commissions, like the ISCF, are mainly there to regulate the safety and fairness of events, NOT PROMOTE OURSELVES! HOW MANY WAYS DO WE HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU!?

• I've read your condescending responses. I've seen you paste the same responses in multiple locations. Wikipedia functions on what we can show through using third party coverage of an organization. The is a lack of coverage of your organization. Until there is enough, you don't meet the notability criteria for inclusion. It's really that simple. You might be a great organization, run by a great bunch of folks. That doesn't make you notable. Sometimes I'm not happy with what passes as notability around here, but the criteria is what is is. Twice, your organization was deleted after a public discussion by the community. That's how it works here. Niteshift36 (talk) 06:12, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

REPLY So AGAIN, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR???? There are loads of info sites on wikapedia with FAR LESS "third party coverage" Do you want sites that have our ISCF Links? Sites don't "WRITE" about us. We are a "Regulatory" body, NOT A PROMOTIONAL COMPANY!!! People write about the UFC, Strikeforce, King of the Cage, etc. etc... Because they are PROMOTERS! We are in a sense, "Behind the scenes" in a promoted event. We "REGULATE" the rules and safety guidelines. we DON'T Promote ourselves! Unlike in Boxing for example and kickboxing, the LARGE MAJORITY OF MMA PROMOTERS promote their OWN Titles! Thus giving them the press. UFC, Strikeforce, etc. etc. So there is no real need for sites to discuss us, or to point out all we have done for the sport, which is a lot. The most you may see on sites about us are links to our site. so because of this, we can't offer you "LOADS OF HEADLINES" about us and JUST because of this, YOU say we are not worthy of having an info page on Wikapedia?

HERE ARE SOME LINKS FOR YOU;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWoOnluiUB0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuAHibf17rQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5aIxvTA3g0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTDc0FzatJ0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQqfajj8y18&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLS1CVNQZmk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFcoiT32Eek&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDhNeiXFsc4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7OTkWevy_s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7J2GEaICzo&feature=related

http://eon.businesswire.com/portal/site/eon/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070323105175&newsLang=en

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=stats.fightCard&eid=10879a49-748d-4f4c-80fa-4ac5b3d77784

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=stats.fightCard&eid=0373f392-d6b0-4ea6-9dc6-2a1d4e2f4d70

http://www.mikido.com

http://www.mikido.com/newsletters/iscfmmawc.pdf

http://www.teamcolonmma.com/news.html

http://blog.hurtclothing.com/mma-news/2009/12/6/introducing-jason-the-reaper-graves.html

http://21stcenturyselfdefense.com/Mixed_Martial_Arts.html

http://www.squaredcirclepromotions.com/mma_itv_dc.htm

http://www.angelsgym.com/grappling.html

http://www.missmma.com/ISCF.html

http://blog.texasfighter.org/?m=20090513

http://overtimemma.com/instructors.html

http://www.sportsnewsandscores.com/tag/welterweight-title

http://www.mmava.com/news.html

http://www.iswagsplash.com/2009/11/mma.html

http://www.axemma.com

We could keep going, but from a google search for ISCF MMAwe found about 33,000 pages that talk about for ISCF MMA, and we would be glad to continue listing them if necessary.

• • • Links on other sites are meaningless. They mean absolutely nothing. You're simply not listening to me. I, by myself, did nothing. I can't. But you insist on laying all the blame on me. The rules aren't mine. There are plenty of them I don't like. I think it's a goddamn shame that a guy who has wins 3 Bronze Stars isn't notable under the criteria, but some felon who managed to put a rap song on the charts at #199 out of 200 between trips to prison is notable. Most of your argument is "well there are other articles".....there is an essay on that. WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. Saying other crap exists doesn't help get yours on wikipedia. Have you ever considered that being a body that works quietly behind the scenes, while important, just isn't notable? There are tons of doctors, lawyers, cops, paramedics and soldiers that go to work every day, do very important work and aren't notable under wikipedia standards. You are acting as if you have some right to have an article. If you don't meet the standards, you don't meet them. It's simple. Google hits mean nothing. Links to blogs and youtube don't mean shit. They have no value. Not one link you put up there passes the reliable sources standards with the possible exception of businesswire. Niteshift36 (talk) 06:52, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

REPLY WOW! Pretty bold attacks from an Editor of Wikapedia. Are we a little upset? Ok, we being noticed by others does not, as you say, "Mean S###!" So WHAT DOES? Here is a group, WAMMA, that has "Sanctioned" what, "4" events, yet they have a LARGE page on Wikapedia;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Alliance_of_Mixed_Martial_Arts

What makes them so much better? they have material on this page like we did, yet for whatever reason, "4" events sanctioned is more credible than the hundreds we have done since the ISCF was created in 1999.

WAMMA has TWO Champions... TWO! Yet, they are more credible... HOW? Because they had a fight on a Strikeforce event?

What about these guys; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Cage_Network

They are a PROMOTIONAL company yet you list them as a SANCTIONING BODY.

Our point is this, SURLY we are as credible as these organizations, and if you just don't like some of the "Content" on our site, than lets take it off. We can PROVE everything you have complained about, yet that's not good enough for you, so AGAIN and AGAIN we ask, WHAT IS!? We have read EVERYTHING you have directed us to, and we have tried to respond to all your accusations, EXPLAINING to you the difference of a sanctioning body and a promotional company. However, everything we try to answer to, it's just not good enough. So what is?

• • There was no attack. There was a statement. They don't mean shit. Period. That's called being blunt, not attacking. If you see that as an attack, yet fail to see the actual insults you'd made, well, you're beyond helping. You keep saying that I did this or that "you list this one as a sanctioning body" or some such nonsense. I've never edited a single word in that article. I haven't listen them as anything. Go bother someone else about that. I've answered you. I'm tired of repeating myself. This is pointless. Your article has been deleted twice. Just live with it. I'm done with this discussion. Niteshift36 (talk) 07:27, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

REPLY; YOU WROTE; "yet fail to see the actual insults you'd made, well, you're beyond helping."

???? WHERE HAVE WE ATTACHED YOU? All we have done is "Explain" what a sanctioning body is to you and we did this because from your comments you made in the beginning, you have no idea what we do. THIS is what started all of this.

In regards to your comment; "You keep saying that I did this or that "you list this one as a sanctioning body" or some such nonsense."

You in this case meant Wikapedia in general. The listing is under MMA Governing Bodies on the MMA wikapedia page.

As for saying, "I'm done with this discussion" that's easy for you to say. you seem to feel you don't have to explain yourself and that you don't deserve us "Teaching" or "Explaining" to you the difference of a "SANCTIONING BODY" and a "PROMOTIONAL COMPANY". so because you still don't understand the difference of the two, the simple thing to do is just DELETE our page... Wow...

Keep in mind we would have NEVER gotten to this point if you wouldn't have made such comments that were related to PROMOTIONAL COMPANIES, and not "Sanctioning bodies!"

So it's easy for you to walk away, because YOU clearly hold all the cards. I'm sorry you cannot be taught something new about something you know nothing about, and because of this, it's in your power to instead of understand it, you will just ignore it...

Maybe we should treat the fighters, trainers, officials, promoters we work with this way. If we don't understand them, we should just ignore them...

Edit filter

Sorry that this had to bother you when you already were in a dispute, but the edit filter triggered not just because you were typing the word 'shit', but because it was in capitalized. While this may seem a trivial difference, Wikipedia vandals often type in all capitals to make their comments stand out, and a result this behavior is discouraged and sometimes disallowed (for everybody, not just for IP editors). -- Soap ^Talk/_{Contributions} 13:11, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

The question....again

1-19-10 QUESTION... HOW can we fix our page when it has been deleted? Can it be added again so that we can fix the things he wanted us to change? User:75.5.253.232

• See, there you go again. "He" wants changed. You place this solely on a single person. You keep placing sole "blame" on me alone, even though I don't have the power to delete any article.

Since you like typing in caps so much, here are a few: YOU DON'T LISTEN! Since you won't go read WP:ORG. I'll bring it to you, so everyone coming here can see you've been told (again) and just won't accept what you are being told:

"An organization is generally considered notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability. All content must be verifiable."

""Notable" is not synonymous with "fame" or "importance," and even organizations that editors personally believe are "important" are only accepted as notable if they can be shown to have attracted notice. No organization is exempt from this requirement, no matter what kind of organization it is. If the individual organization has received no or very little notice, then it is not notable simply because other individual organizations of its type are commonly notable or merely because it exists "

Are you reading this? This is what I've been telling you all along! Just because you exist, it doesn't make you notable. Just because you are a "sanctioning body" and not a promoter, it doesn't make you notable. Just because similar orgs have article, it doesn't make you notable. You have to show SIGNIFICANT coverage in RELIABLE, INDEPENDENT sources. Youtube is NOT a reliable source. Blogs are NOT reliable sources. Teamcolonmma, missmma, 21stcenturyselfdefense.com, angelsgym and similar sites are NOT reliable sources. Reliable sources are usually NOT sites where readers and members generate the content. Company websites can be used for info about themselves, but NOT to establish notability. Coverage just showing that you sanctioned an event is NOT significant coverage. So proving that you sanctioned a bunch of events won't accomplish your goal. Providing links to websites and discussion forums where people say nice things baout you won't accomplish your goal. You've been told, more than once, what you need to do. Now it's being told to you again, on your page. Even if you delete it, it shows up in your history, so people can see that you've been told.

Further, it isn't your page. It is the community's page. The community "owns" the article and TWICE, after public discussion, the community has deleted it. I advised you to read WP:COI from the start, because you are part of the org and should be aware of it. Again, it doesn't seem you've read it, because your sole purpose here is to get an article about an organization that pays your bills. So let me bring it here to you, so everyone can see you've been made aware:

"COI (conflict of interest) editing involves contributing to Wikipedia in order to promote your own interests or those of other individuals, companies, or groups. Where advancing outside interests is more important to an editor than advancing the aims of Wikipedia, that editor stands in a conflict of interest." "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a forum for advertising or self-promotion, or a vanity press. As such, it should contain only material that complies with its content policies, and Wikipedians must place the interests of the encyclopedia first. Any editor who gives priority to outside interests may be subject to a conflict of interest."

The content policies. Remember those are the ones you said you don't have time to read. Which is probably why you've asked the same questions no less than 5 times, even though they've been answered.Niteshift36 (talk) 07:33, 20 January 2010 (UTC) ____________________________

1-21-10 Niteshift36, you are such a TOOL! It's clear you have choosen to use the little power you have in life here on Wikapedia to insult us, and don't claim you haven't because I went back to read your past posts. YOU HAVE, and you made claims about things you knew NOTHING about so DON'T deny it! Look, it's clear that you are unwilling and now claim that you are unable to help us, but yet you continue to be RUDE and sarcastic in EVERY reply you make. You should be so proud of yourself...

You want me to kiss up to YOU and go through all your administrative hoops just so you can express you have POWER over me and others. you are NO HELP to Wikapedia, your just a little man who seeks out the power to make others OBEY your demands, no matter what they are.

Chances are you are some young teenager who many would classify a "geek" and clearly knows NOTHING about mixed martial arts or fight sports in general. That's fine, but what gets me is you can't put your PERSONAL feelings of being INFORMED aside and be professional enough to represent Wikapedia as a Professional! I have tried over and over again to do what you and your rules say, but it keeps getting us no where. It would be nice to be able to talk with a Grown Up" who can look at this situation as a helpful administrator for Wikapedia instead of some little boy that got his feelings hurt because he KNOWS he knows NOTHING about the site we are discussing in regards to WHAT WE ACTUALLY DO! Just be a man and admit it, your past post CONFIRM YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT WHAT A SANCTIONING BODY IS!

So now that your little EGO has been offended, you will now use whatever little power you have to defend yourself... Go ahead and try, but it's just laughable abd not professional. We will seek out a more "Grown up" and more "Professional" wikapedia administrator and hopefully you won't get involved from here on out. Just climb back in your little EGO box that has now been broken and walk away from the FIGHT SPORTS! Be an administrator for a topic you know best such as being a fight "FAN" who knows NOTHING about how the behind the scene works in fight sports when it comes to rules, regulations and fighter safety. I'm sure that you even thing "Big Time Wrestling" is real, so go ahead and keep thinking that, and leave the REAL world of REAL Fight Sports to those who know what they are talking about. PS: I'm not hard to find, just a phone call away, so maybe you can step it up a little and call me so we can resolve this banter instead of playing a keyboard match against each other, which is truly CHILDISH! Awaiting your call or e-mail. So that we can resolve this more professionally....