Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arthur Alan Wolk: Difference between revisions

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Arthur Alan Wolk

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I do not think this person meets WP:BASIC since I cannot find any sources which directly discuss the subject, as is required to meet the general notability guideline. Sources are either unreliable, or make only passing comments about the subject and his legal cases, rather than directly addressing them.

Note that the article appears to have been created and edited as part of an off-wiki dispute, in contravention of Wikipedia is not a battleground. Whilst not a reason in itself to delete, this, combined with the lack of notability, makes me think we are better off not having this BLP to deal with.

(There have been posts at COIN and at BLP/N regarding this article and Arthur Alan Wolk v. Walter Olson which is also at AfD.) SmartSE (talk) 14:01, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, there is sufficient sourcing on the article currently to establish notability and there are more sources available that aren't yet being used. The solution to WP:BATTLE is to remove those doing the battle and get on with editing the article -- and in fact this has already been accomplished. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 14:07, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Which sources directly discuss the subject and which remain to be used? SmartSE (talk) 14:29, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to the ones Racepacket indicates below, see this (not currently used) and the Reason article by Jacob Sullum used as a reference on the page. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 18:45, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - An aviation tort lawyer who crashes his own plane and then sues the National Transportation Safety Board over the report of his crash is unique and very notable. Racepacket (talk) 20:37, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong delete - Article is of little to nil informative or educational value and will be nothing but trouble. A clear net wiki - loss.Off2riorob (talk) 14:11, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not a reason to delete. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 09:06, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong delete - This non-notable or marginally notable subject does not want to be covered. The article has become a magnet for WP:BLP and WP:UNDUE violations. We will be better off without this article. Jehochman ^Talk 14:36, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not aware of any evidence indicating that the subject does not want to be covered -- instead I understand that he paid the creator of the article to create it. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 18:45, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Per Nomoskedasticity. There are many times more reliable sources used discussin him that is needed to prove notability.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:05, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I had serious problems with the article as it was created by User:Lawrencewarwick, who is being paid by the article's subject. However, I spent some time doing independent research and have now balanced out the article by including his own plane crash and at least two different lawsuits in 2002 and 2009 against his on-line critics. (By the way, I have no role in the off-Wiki battles.) The subject of the article has gained coverage in a front page article in USA Today and is something of a poster child for tort reform. Sources:

Morrison, Blake (January 5, 2000). "Tragedy's bottom line". USA Today. p. 1A. Retrieved 2010-11-5. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)
Passarella, Gina (April 07, 2010). "Pa. Jury Awards Nearly $89 Million in Plane Crash Case". The Legal Intelligencer. Retrieved 2010-11-05. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help) - Racepacket (talk) 17:35, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Seriously. Almost all the refs are about the lawsuits (not about him), about his libel suit ~~(which is suspiciously absent from the article)~~, or not wp:rs. Some of the cases are probably notable, and he deserves mention in those articles. Possibly a redirect if he is known for one case more than others. The Eskimo (talk) 17:40, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No problem of WP:BLP1E, as more than one of the lawsuits appears notable. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 09:06, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Subject of article is of minimal notability, and there is already a history of legal threats and COI issues connected with the article. We don't need the headache. Ray^Talk 00:50, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
None of those (except "minimal notability") is even a potential reason for deletion. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 09:06, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, those are definitely reasons to take into consideration for deletion, if the cost to Wikipedia's editors of maintaining the article (dealing with constant legal harassment, etc) is not worth the benefit (maintaining a neutral biography of a colorful local figure of minimal import). Ray^Talk 21:24, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
But the editors who were causing difficulties are no longer a problem: one is blocked, the other has undertaken not to edit the page anymore (see here). We have the means of dealing with WP:BATTLE, it has been dealt with. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 21:31, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Wolk meets Wikipedia notability standards under WP:BIO and WP:GNG. If Wolk wants the article deleted, as Jehochman states, I support its deletion. If Wolk wants the article kept, as Lawrencewarwick states, I support keeping it. I have serious concern that Wolk will sue Wikipedia and Wikipedia editors if his Wikipedia presence is not to his liking. (Wolk might sue poor Lawrence Warwick and his marketing firm if Warwick didn't warn him about WP:LUC when he made that phone call.) American Wikipedia editors considering editing the article should review this recent lawsuit by Wolk (page 9 forward) that (1) alleges that anyone who links to a website is a "co-partner" of everything that website and all of its commenters say and (2) shows what sort of statement about Wolk Wolk considers legally actionable. (Disclosure of conflict of interest: Wolk has sued me. Twice. For the same 2007 blog post.) Because Wolk has accused me of "inciting" negative comments about him, I hereby request that no one on Wikipedia write anything about Wolk that Wolk does not want them to write. Editors should only write true things about Wolk. Contrary to Lawrence Warwick's complaint, I have not edited and will not edit the Wolk article. My only edit was to nominate the forked lawsuit article for deletion, which Wolk's marketing representatives requested. Long-time Wikipedia editors will know that I have consistently (if unsuccessfully) argued that district-court cases do not merit their own articles except in rare cases like the Scopes trial. THF (talk) 22:29, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It seems to me that we should have a two-staged analysis. First, here, the community should apply normal community standards to determine if the article is worth inclusion. Second, if the AfD decides to keep the article, Wikimedia Foundation management can make a cost-benefit analysis as to whether it is worth its resources to implement the community's desires. If the AfD decides to keep the article, and someone then makes a legal demand on Wikimedia, they can make a unilateral decision to bow to the demand or to fight it in court. However, the community should not assume that just because other lawsuits have been filed in the past, that a lawsuit will be forthcoming here. Our task here is to reach a conclusion applying all of the normal Wikipedia criteria in the normal course. Speculation about possible future legal threats should not enter into our deliberations here. Thanks, Racepacket (talk) 00:35, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

THF should not be commenting here. By his own admission, he's involved in a lawsuit with the subject.[1] The article seems to be some sort of coatrack, where PR agents[2] and antagonists of the subject are competing to hang their coats![3] Jehochman ^Talk 11:58, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 30: / Line 30: @@
 *'''Comment'''. Wolk meets Wikipedia notability standards under [[WP:BIO]] and [[WP:GNG]].  If Wolk wants the article deleted, as Jehochman states, I support its deletion.  If Wolk wants the article kept, as Lawrencewarwick states, I support keeping it.  I have serious concern that Wolk will sue Wikipedia and Wikipedia editors if his Wikipedia presence is not to his liking.  (Wolk might sue poor Lawrence Warwick and his marketing firm if Warwick didn't warn him about [[WP:LUC]] when he made that phone call.)  American Wikipedia editors considering editing the article should review [http://www.scribd.com/doc/40195985/Wolk-v-Overlawyered-complaint this recent lawsuit by Wolk] (page 9 forward) that (1) alleges that anyone who links to a website is a "co-partner" of everything that website and all of its commenters say and (2) shows what sort of statement about Wolk Wolk considers legally actionable.  (Disclosure of conflict of interest: Wolk has sued me. Twice. For the same 2007 blog post.)  Because Wolk has accused me of "inciting" negative comments about him, I hereby request that no one on Wikipedia write anything about Wolk that Wolk does not want them to write. Editors should only write true things about Wolk. Contrary to Lawrence Warwick's complaint, I have not edited and will not edit the Wolk article.  My only edit was [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arthur Alan Wolk v. Walter Olson|to nominate the forked lawsuit article for deletion]], which Wolk's marketing representatives requested. Long-time Wikipedia editors will know that [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mauldin v. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.|I have consistently (if unsuccessfully) argued that district-court cases do not merit their own articles]] except in rare cases like the Scopes trial. [[User:THF|THF]] ([[User talk:THF|talk]]) 22:29, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
 ::'''Comment''' It seems to me that we should have a two-staged analysis.  First, here, the community should apply normal community standards to determine if the article is worth inclusion.  Second, if the AfD decides to keep the article, Wikimedia Foundation management can make a cost-benefit analysis as to whether it is worth its resources to implement the community's desires.  If the AfD decides to keep the article, and someone then makes a legal demand on Wikimedia, they can make a unilateral decision to bow to the demand or to fight it in court.  However, the community should not assume that just because other lawsuits have been filed in the past, that a lawsuit will be forthcoming here.  Our task here is to reach a conclusion applying all of the normal Wikipedia criteria in the normal course.  Speculation about possible future legal threats should not enter into our deliberations here. Thanks, [[User:Racepacket|Racepacket]] ([[User talk:Racepacket|talk]]) 00:35, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
+::THF [[WP:COI|should not be commenting here]].  By his own admission, he's involved in a lawsuit with the subject.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jehochman&diff=394801476&oldid=394800439]  The article seems to be some sort of coatrack, where PR agents[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lawrencewarwick&diff=prev&oldid=395127249] and antagonists of the subject are competing to hang their coats![http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jehochman&diff=394830523&oldid=394828646] [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 11:58, 7 November 2010 (UTC)