User talk:LukasPietsch

Archives
November 2005 – February 2006

Greek loanwords in English

Hi Lukas,

I have made an estimation on Talk:English words of Greek origin and I would like your opinion on this.--Odysses 14:22, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Lukas, I am thinking of giving up on English words of Greek origin. Clearly the agenda of most of the editors there is showing how wonderful Greek is, not understanding etymology better. And I'm afraid that neither you (a full-fledged linguist) nor I (an educated amateur) is going to be able to give them an education in linguistics on line. I am tired of dealing with the chauvinists. But if I can support you, let me know. --Macrakis 18:08, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your opinion Lukas. The problem now is the number of words in English language. (Too bad I don't speak any French).--Odysses 18:37, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

What do you think about the book, Lukas? NikoSilver 23:13, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Keep up the good work!

For your efforts to contribute all this valuable reference material in English words of Greek origin I, Odysses, award you the Tireless Contributor Barnstar.

Please accept this present and never mind what they say :-)

And I, NikoSilver could not agree more, and would like to give you more medals, trophies, prizes, credits, bravos, yoohoos, cheers, distinctions, and decorations, but I don't know how to do that yet, since I am new in Wikipedia! I am also very jealous and full of envy for Odysses who gave you an award faster than I could!

Euharisto Louka!

Paraklisis

Geia sou Louka,

Eimai o: Asteraki (wiki name). Apo pou an epitrepete apo Germania? -Kai apo pou apo Ellada? (ida entelos tixea ti selida sou...)

Tha xaro poli an epikinonisis mazi mou sto kontino mellon (paraklisis)! -Alithia? Grafis kai sti Germaniki wiki? ( Ego nai! -Efxome kai esi! )

Xarika poli, ( esto kai entelos tixea... pou epikinonisa mazi sou!) --Asteraki 23:38, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

md

Apparently 'idiom' is english terminology [1]. Miskin 15:50, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

• Sorry, no, not as a technical term in linguistics, and certainly not in a sense contrasting with "dialect" in the way you are using it ("dialect"=major division; "idiom"=minor division). That distinction is made only in Greek. Lukas ^(T.|@) 16:00, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Ronald McDonald (whaling ship worker)

Hi, question for you. I put the Prod tag on the article "Ronald McDonald (whaling ship worker)", and you changed it into a redirect to the appropriate page. I'm wondering what the point is of having such an utterly obscure article name be a redirect. I find it impossible to believe that anyone will ever type in "Ronald McDonald (whaling ship worker)" and so end up being redirected to the correct page. Or is there another reason for such a redirect that I'm missing? --Xyzzyplugh 14:06, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Hm, well, you might be right about the long title with the brackets. The name as such, though, "Ronald McDonald", could very well be a plausible search term. Maybe it should be added to the dab page Ronald MacDonald. Anyway, it's probably not worth racking our brains about this - "redirects are cheap", as the saying goes, so there's really no harm done if it stays now the way it is. If you feel it's important, I wouldn't mind if you just re-added the "prod" (I think the policy is that an article shouldn't be prodded twice, but in this case, I as the de-prodder wouldn't object.) Lukas ^(T.|@) 15:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

fighting as Greeks

Can you explain to me what "fighting as Greeks" means? Albanau 11:33, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

"...in the role of Greeks", "...being regarded as Greeks" (rather than simply "...on the side of the Greeks"). Did you think I meant "... like Greeks"? - If you can find a better formulation, fine. Lukas ^(T.|@) 11:41, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi

Please see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Macedonia if you can. --Latinus 12:44, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Myson

Sorry to mislead you; OCD doesn't have an article on Myson, the quote in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Myson of Chen is from their article on the Seven Sages. Septentrionalis 18:21, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Re: Naming issues

This is a complex area and I don't really consider myself involved. Check the revision history of the portal and as you can see, there is (or was) and wheel war over the location. Before the portal was made, I got wind that they were planning it and had this conversation with Bomac. He seemed to indicate that they would not be pursuing it at the location Portal:Macedonia - in the end though, that is where they made it! As you can tell from its talk page, the Greek and Bulgarian users are not happy about it; User:Makedonas went off his head about it! After this post in which I am accused of "conspiring" to move it (my Bulgarian my not be that good, but I can pick that out), I thought, no conspiracy, the move will be performed in the open and initiated the poll. Let’s see where it leads us; wherever it leads us, it will stop the wheel war.

With regards to using foreign names, I don't object and am in fact in favour of including names of historical relevance. This can be illustrated by my reaction to Ormands's edits. I have never advocated removing Turkish names from articles on Greek places. --Latinus 15:12, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

BTW do you think you could give your views on the edit war at Ottoman Empire. --Latinus 15:24, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Nope, the sources are on the talk page - the map I'm reverting to is correct. That's the problem :-( --Latinus 16:20, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikinfo

Wikinfo is a fork of Wikipedia set up for all those users who in good faith believe that an encyclopedia article should be a honest simple advocacy of whatever Forgotten and Suppressed Truth they're pushing. </sarcasm>.

WHEELER, who copied his Wikinfo article on Myson to start this article, was one of the worst of these, until he stomped off to Wikinfo (and good luck to it). His particular Truth was largely derived from Karl Otfried Müller's 1000-page fantasia on the Dorians from 1824 (they're blond athletic barbarians who started all the good things in Greek culture, as opposed to all this horrid civilization). It seems plain that he did so to advertise Mueller and Wikinfo.

I'm an inclusionist myself (despite having two articles on AfD at the moment), and I would have simply rewritten the article from modern sources, except for a problem: WHEELER included a GFDL tag crediting Wikinfo, and it's not clear that GFDL permits this ever to be removed even if the article is completely rewritten. I think, however, that WP and Wikinfo are doing different things, and should be separated as far as possible. Septentrionalis 17:46, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Greek grammar

Do you think you could comment - after all, you are the expert ;-) --Latinus 13:49, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes they have, I can see them now - try clearing your cache. --Latinus 15:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Looks great - I have a few things to add (hope you don't mind), I can't do it now though - in a few hours maybe... --Latinus 19:28, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Hallo Lukas

I ve visited your article about the consonants in the greek language and i observed that some of them /b,d,g,ts,dz/ are not contained in the phoneme board. I try lastly to edit the german article about the "greek language" and at time i feel a little bit confused. I studied the linguistics too but as far as i remember, those phonemes above are inextricable parts of the greek phonemic board. Primus

Arvanit

Lukas,

Do not re-direct Arvanit to Arvanites!

I will report you if you continue to do this.

Arianit

Arianitr

I think we should assume good faith, considering that at first sight, it looked like he was being bullied. What I am concerned about are the POV duplicate articles at Image:Al55.GIF and Image:Gostviari.jpg. Someone ought to have a word with him and explain that that's not how things work here... --Latinus 16:02, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, he's been blocked again... --Latinus 17:07, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

We'll see what happens - notorious trolls who spread nationalist mythology after multiple warnings, sooner or later, get banned (if you want names, let me know and then check your e-mail). --Latinus 18:00, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Ancient Macedonian language

Gia sou Lukas! Eida oti milas kai ellinika kai to protimisa na sou grapso sta ellinika apo ta aglika kaita germanika, giati den tha katalavoun poloi ti sizitame!

Tha ithela na sou po pos o Dbachmann kai o Alexander 007 den einai realistes! Se parakalo poli therma na dis tin selida: [2]

• I parapano selida apodiknii oti i Ancient Macedonian language einai dialektos tis Proto-Greek language.

Notes

• Graeco-Armenian einai mia glossa tin opia kai dimiourgise o Dbachmann molis simera, me skopo na ipostiriksi tin apopsi oti dithen i Ancient Macedonian language den einai Proto-Greek language

Séfxaristo. --84.164.241.167 19:25, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Apantisi.... --84.164.241.167 19:27, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Lukas ich warte auf deine antwort! --84.164.241.167 22:06, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I'm not always in front of my computer! :-) - Anyway, first I have to say I find your avoidance of English rather poor style; I'm not going to join in conspiracies and secrecies here. Second, I very much agree with dab. He knows a good lot about these topics, in some areas more than me, and his judgment is generally sound. I have no opinion about the specific hypothesis of "Graeco-Armenian", but apart from that, the general fact remains that the status of Macedonian is disputed; the Greek-dialect hypothesis is just one option among several, at best; the "Proto-Greek" or "Hellenic" hypothesis isn't too well established either (with nobody knowing for certain what exactly anybody else might mean by "Proto-Greek"), and as I said, the mere fact that one group of linguists over at LinguistList have gone for "Hellenic" as the most handy of hypotheses to build a big tree doesn't say anything. We don't even know who these guys are and what sources and what arguments they have been basing their own judgment on - you must be aware that theirs is not primary research literature but must be some sort of compilation, tertiary literature. In any case, there's absolutely no excuse for forcing one of the disputed hypotheses into the disambiguation notice at the top of the article, when that notice can just as well be formulated in a perfectly neutral way. Its only function is to distinguish from Modern Macedonian, after all. You've probably seen I've reverted to the intermediate version and I'd very much suggest you leave it at that. Lukas ^(T.|@) 22:17, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Λούφα

Hi Lukas,

I see that you have written about Imia/Kardak. Perhaps you'd like to check the light side of Imia] (Choose version, Downloads, music video) --Odysses 16:32, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Α, ωραία. Κάτι έλεγε κι η κουνιάδα μου για αυτό το έργω. Παίζει τώρα στην Ελλάδα; Πρέπει κάποτε να βρούμε το ντιβιντί, φαίνεται. :-) Lukas ^(T.|@) 16:41, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Το έργο βγήκε το Δεκέμβριο, Δεν το είδα, αλλά φαίνεται καλό :-) Το ντιβιντί πρέπει να βγεί στους επόμενους μήνες. Μερικές ακόμα πληροφορίες εδώ--Odysses 17:09, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

RFC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Dbachmann

Scan include image

Yes, I have the map and can scan relevant island, but cannot work out how to include is as image. Imia is indicated as Limnia N. (N is for nisos=island and attributed to all Greek sovereign islands); all Turkish islands are indicated with an A. Politis 09:56, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Aucaman RFC

Before defending Aucaman by making accusations of "nationalist mud-slinging" and saying "I cannot see anything that I would classify as personal attack", why don't you look at this. Do you condone such behavior? --ManiF 19:19, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I have little to add to what I wrote, and I stand by my judgment until better evidence is offered. If you have any legitimate complaint against Aucaman, you guys have been doing a terribly poor job presenting it. That one incivil remark of his in Persian was treated on the discussion page, and I've commented on it accordingly. Apart from that, wherever I look in the article discussions and related WP:AN pages (and mind you, I'm not going to read through all that mess), I see Aucaman as consistently the better argued, more concise, more civil, more focussed, more reasonable, less ideological voice. From you guys, I see ramblings, wordiness, evasion, repetition, whining, poor documentation, lack of understanding of process, and incapability of even filling in an 3RR report or an RfC properly. You really have only yourselves to blame if people don't believe you have a case. Lukas ^(T.|@) 20:01, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

All I see from you are accusations based on assumptions and borderline personal attacks calling us names such as "whiners". "ramblers", "nationalists". People do believe we have a case, because we have direct evidence supporting our case, not circumstantial mumbo-jumbo. --ManiF 21:00, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The Iranian watchdog is an organised way of handling with vandals. How is it a 'nationalist battleground'? your criticisms are ridiculous. If articles related to a certain country are being attacked, and then the individuals are also being called names, as bad as 'terrorist' by a few 'contributers' just because of their nationality, what else were we supposed to do? We had to get organised to deal with it.

Now if you didn't have time to get the full account and just tried to give us even more work, then again, this is exactly the weakness of Wikipedia's power structure. No one bothers to be fair, so they do 'something' and think they have done something good.

Instead of supporting us to end this battleground and make a way for the Iranian contributers to actually have time to CONTRIBUTE instead of just revert and defend articles, you have created even more hassle. Well done. It's these behaviours and weak judgements people make on here everyday that makes Wikipedia weaker and weaker. I hope you are happy. --Kash 00:49, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Read your notes again.. It's amusing to say the least. Instead of providing a way to resolve the issue, you have done what exactly? I would love to know why you thought your comments were helpful in anyway, to end this 'battleground' as you call it. You just provided links to our actions to stop attacks against Iraianian 'POV issues' as you call it. What else are we supposed to do? Atleast try to be helpful when you come across such issues. --Kash 01:01, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

The RfC

Well a number of Iran-related articles have a nationalist-racialist POV to them. My attempts to improve these articles have been branded as "Zionist" and "anti-Iranian" even though I'm Iranian myself. Instead of addressing my (very specific and otherwise trivial) concerns they give explanations like "You don't have a majority consensus" or simply ignore what I say and start making personal attacks. They have made this way too personal and want me to stop contributing to Wikipedia, removing any dispute tags I place and reverting most of my edits (even the obvious ones like this one). I've been subject to a lot of personal attacks, many of them coming from anon users (or those who pretend to be anon users) with no previous record on WP (see the one brought up by User:ManiF above and read my explanation of it). I'm not sure how many other users have gone through what I'm going through, but it looks like they've successfully terminated some of the other users opposing them in the past (User:Ahwaz, User:Diyako, and User:Mesopotamia come to mind). Aucaman^Talk 06:24, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

English words of Greek origin

I am not sure if we should keep the picture+comment I uploaded in the above article. Please revert it if you think it's lame. NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 11:42, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

:-) Nice one. I just saw the same add here on my favourite linguist weblog today, and was already thinking of sending you a note: [3] (but the accompanying text is unfortunately about something different). - Well, I'm afraid you're probably going to get into trouble with copyright, so be prepared if somebody deletes the picture. Apart from that, it's nice. Does the figure quoted there actually correspond to anything of what we found? Lukas ^(T.|@) 11:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Ha ha, I reverted it myself. Anyway, my altering the article, flashed red in Macrakis' watchlist, who in turn altered very accurately and precisely the wording of the intro paragraph. So, ουδέν κακόν αμιγές καλού applies here too! Thank again for your support back then... :-) NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 20:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

PS Need any help in Adana? NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 20:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, it seems we've worked it out, as far as the ancient names go at least. The matter is more complicated than we thought at first, so apparently it'll be best to move the names further down after all, which seems to remove the initial controversy. (I don't really want to get involved in the other part of the dispute, about the Armenian massacres.) Well, those watchlists and contribution histories sometimes lead one on peculiar paths, don't they? :-) Lukas ^(T.|@) 20:46, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Adana

Sorry about Talk:Adana -- I have no idea how that happened. Perhaps a bug in the Wiki software? I certainly didn't excise your section explicitly. --Macrakis 21:18, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

No problem, no offense taken, I was sure it was some mistake. Possibly an edit conflict, you having the edit window open for a longish time while I was making those edits? Anyway, doesn't really matter. Lukas ^(T.|@) 21:24, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Nestor's Cup

Hab ich mir auch ueberlegt; schlimmstenfalls kann man das Bild ja noch auf die obere Haelfte 'zuschneiden'. Vielleicht aber auch besser als "fair use" auf en: hochladen, fuer den Fall dass ein Purist die Datei von commons: loescht. dab (ᛏ) 11:40, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Οι υιοί

How was this pronounced in Hellenistic Greek? [y yy]? Sounds strange. Maybe you could comment at Talk:Koine Greek, thank you Andreas 15:40, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Greeks

Please take a look at Talk:Greeks. I'm afraid the essentialist concept of ethnic identity is very stubborn.... Your thoughts and contributions would be welcome. --Macrakis 17:58, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I just saw that. To be honest, I'm terribly busy with nasty POV disputes elsewhere at the moment and a bit reluctant to enter a new one. While I certainly would have preferred your formulation, I'd say that the formulation "are inheritors" etc. is probably not quite wrong enough to warrant a big dispute. After all, there is a lot of objectively tangible cultural continuity and inheritance of ideas in this case. What gets on my nerve more is Politis' typical way of convoluting things even more. "Shaped world trends and adapted to them", heavens, what a stupid blather. But let them have their way for now. Let's work on a better formulation when things have quieted down a bit.

If POV-declaring userboxes weren't so strongly under fire these days, I'd be all in favour of creating one now: "This user thinks that ethnic essentialism is generally not a very good idea." What kind of symbol and colour would that go with best, what d'you think? :-) Lukas ^(T.|@) 18:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Advice

I would like your advice. On the Talk page for Arabs of Khuzestan, user Dariush4444 has called me a liar and propagandist.[[4]] He has called the Arab population "refugees", which is not true, and he claims that I know nothing about the Middle East. He also denies that the Arab population has any ethnicity or culture distinct from the Persian culture. I want to know whether any of these comments breach Wikipedia rules and what I do about it if they do. However, as I have been reprimanded once by Wikipedia administrators, I do not think they will take anything I say seriously any more. I would like your advice.--Ahwaz 18:41, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, sorry, I'm just on the run, I'll be back with you later. Take care, Lukas ^(T.|@) 18:42, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Stay cool

Yes, "lies and propaganda", in the context he was using it, is a "personal attack" in my book. Not yet an extremely violent one that should trigger an immediate block IMHO, but I've warned him for it. If he continues despite the warning, a proper next step is to report him at WP:PAIN, the admins noticeboard for persistent personal attack problems, or personally to an admin of your confidence. Don't worry too much about admins now being biassed against you in all eternity - if you demonstrate your own behaviour in this context was okay, nobody can blame you for anything. - The other statements you quote probably don't qualify, they are just a nationalist POV he's expressing, that's a nuisance but nothing you can do much about. Keep cool! --Lukas ^(T.|@) 23:08, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Personal attacks warning

Lukas this is in regards to your warning to user Dariush4444[5]: that certainly was not a personal attack per se, although the comment by Dariush4444 was incivil and certainly uncalled for. However, as importantly Lukas, you yourself said many editors are "whining", "nationalists" and "rambling".... is in fact a form of personal attacking, and altough I can appreciate your warning on Dariush4444`s talk page, but you too need to adhere to these rules as well please, since there are no double standards in Wikipedia; just be aware of that please. Thank youZmmz 00:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Note: Lukas on the assumption of good faith, and after being pointed out to me by other users that it may be inappropriate to use the word biased--I have now erased it, and in the intrest of sounding fair; I do actually apologize. But, again, please do not spam my talk page too much, and certainly refrain from scolding me. Thanks and good luck to you.Zmmz 01:33, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

RfC

Hi, Lukas. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Aucaman has, as of late, become a problematic editor who is unwilling to compromise and who has also engaged me in ludicrous revert wars for no reason. He wants the complete removal of the term "Aryan" from all Iran and Iran-related articles and accuses anyone of using the term, even in the Iranian context, of being an anti-Semite. I don't agree with all the other editors involved with the RfC, but certainly everyone agrees that Aucaman needs to calm down and be willing to compromise and recognize that his recent behavior is totally unacceptable. I also did not appreciate his appreciate his insinuations against me. And I must certainly and quite emphatically disagree with you that the RfC is simply "nationalist mud-slinging." I have no idea about the politics of most of the other editors, but Khoikhoi and Paul Barlow are two editors who definitely, absolutely cannot be accused by anyone of "nationalism." At any rate, I haven't been online very much lately so I haven't been keeping track of things but as far as I'm concerned this matter is a non-issue and Aucaman has no grounds in constantly removing the term "Aryan" from Iran-related articles. This is my only interest in the matter. SouthernComfort 15:07, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, quite frankly, I don't think this RfC will accomplish anything since as you have noticed, it has grown unwieldy. Personally, I'm hoping that this problem will just go away since I am very quickly growing tired of this nonsense on WP, since as you have noticed, editors often become divided into two extremes where there is little communication and a breakdown in civility and assumption of good faith. This is typical throughout WP, no matter the subject matter. If things on WP continue this way, I cannot imagine any sane, reasonable person with a life wanting to get involved in this project. At any rate, what are your thoughts on this matter? That is, do you have any ideas for a solution? SouthernComfort 15:26, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, the situation with the noticeboard is due entirely to the constant POV "attacks" and sneaky vandalism against certain Iranian articles on the part of editors harboring anti-Iranian or anti-Persian sentiments. Such extremes will always ultimately attract other extremes. It's a reaction to prejudice, perceived or otherwise. Up to now Zmmz, ManiF, and Kash, though I have not had much in the way of interaction with them, seem to be willing to compromise. And so far they have been very communicative with neutral editors such as Khoikhoi. So, we'll just have to see how things work out. SouthernComfort 16:08, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Reasonable?

I have a different POV on Southern Comfort's "reasonableness". His edits seem ultra-nationalist to me, and his attitude is often less than affable. For example:

You are simply the most ignorant user I have ever come across on Wikipedia. It's absurd. I'm tired of responding to your racist ignorance, but I won't let you continue vandalising these pages. Go read the history books for yourself and stop relying on the racist propaganda of pan-Arabist websites. You make a lot of noise Zora, but in the end you cannot back up your claims or prove your revisionist history. SouthernComfort 11:19, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

I could add numerous additional cites but ... I won't. I can't find the one where he called me a Bengali and told me to stay away from Iranian articles. I enjoyed that one -- it's on my user page, in my list of "names people have called me" :) Zora 23:41, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Zora, just be forewarned please, if you are going to make allegations like that, you need to provide proof. Otherwise, it may be used against you. It doesn`t do any good that you constantly label others as "nationalist" or "chauvinist" either. ThanksZmmz 00:51, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I see that Zora is again stalking me. She is, in fact, an anti-Persian, anti-Iranian racist and she has consistently harassed both myself as well as Zereshk for the past year. BTW, I never called her a "Bengali" or any such names (I challenge her to find the diff [6]) - unlike her, I do not make personal attacks such as lambasting others as "nationalist" or "chauvinist" again and again ad nauseum for over a year. See her comment here (last sentence) [7]. Her hatred of Iranians is unbelievable, and in my entire life, I have never come across someone as prejudiced. And on WP. Go figure. SouthernComfort 23:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

BTW, as to the first comment she provided, she was quite prone to massive deletions of information from articles and injection of her own personal opinions and blatant errors - as you yourself could see on History of Khuzestan, which I thoroughly cleaned up. My opinion is that her conduct, particularly her constant stalking behavior, is intended to drive me away from WP and/or to get a rise out of me. It won't work. SouthernComfort 23:55, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry to have confused you with Zereshk re that incident, SC. I apologize for the error. The rest of it ... well, QED. But I'll stop here, since I think I'm getting too caught up in this. Zora 07:17, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry Lukas. I strongly disagree with you as well. Of all the anti-Iranian editors, Zora has theee longest history and record. You will not find EVEN ONE full time Iranian WP editor that has not clashed with her on an Iranian article. And there are at least 20 active Iranian editors currently on WP. If there were to be a vote against Zora's edits regarding the Iranian articles, I am willing to bet there would be a unanimous vote by them against Zora. Not only that, I guarantee a similar outcome by the Shia editors. I challenge anyone to find even one Shia editor that will defend Zora.

The only reason I respect Zora is that she stops short of direct personal attacks (excluding the "nationalist" labelings). At least not in the same way that users such as User:Ahwaz and User:Mansour have attacked me. And that is probably the only reason we have kept our peace with her (or try to). And besides, we have had many non-Iranian editors helping us out as well.

I'm sorry Lukas. Our experience with Zora it seems, is entirely different from yours.--Zereshk 10:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I second the comment above --Kash 10:55, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

What do you think?

"Now, go and get lost. Death praiser. You illiterate mental. Your Cyrus the Great was nothing but an illiterate and murderer. But still he is long gone and forgoten. What is your excuse for being one.....? Your dad is a mercenary".

This is the translation of a comment User:Aucaman left here

For your information, Cyrus was the founder of then Persia, now Iran.

Do you think he is fit to 'contribute' to Iranian articles when he has a strong anti POV against Persians/Iranians?

Me and others have asked him to comment on this however he repeatedly archieved his talk page! --Kash 10:55, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Yawn. This incident has been discussed to death, I've commented on it earlier myself, he's himself done all the explaining it needed. It wasn't okay, but he was severely provoked and he then retracted it. Now stop it. You guys have been carrying this quote around in front of you long enough. Stop spamming people's talk pages with this. Lukas ^(T.|@) 11:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Eh? This single quote shows how racist he is toward Iranians yet you "yawn"???? If you were neutral in this dispute you would not simply OK his behaviour just because he was 'provoked', racism can not be justified. You from all should know this --MysticRum 17:12, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Communalism on Wikipedia

Sir, it has come to my attention that a group of people are mobilising on communalist lines against those they regard as "anti-Iranian" and "anti-Persian". See this Wikipedia notice board: [8] I have no problem with people coming together to exchange opinions and on a range of articles and, in a subject as vast as Iran, it could make sense. But this is not what this notice board is about. It explicitly says the notice board is for "Iranians", not a broader range of people with an interest in Iran. See [9] which says "This is solely for awareness of other Iranian Wikipedians to join discussions on controversial topics."

Then there is a section entitled "Users to keep a watch on" [10], which lists those "users who are widely known to systematically, methodically, and deliberately be involved with dismantling, attacking, debasing, and injecting misinformation into Iranian related articles." It accuses them variously of being anti-Iranian and even "terrorising". It lists their ethnicity, as if no Turkic, Azeri or Kurdish editor can be classified as Iranian. On this page, I have been accused of "spreading anti-Persian propaganda" simply for debating the issue of the Arab population of Khuzestan. Nothing I said in the talk page or on the main article page was "anti-Persian" at all.

I and other editors have been the target of racist abuse and we have been warned for reacting to it - I was punished by being blocked for 24 hours, even though I deleted the comments I made soon after making them. Yet, it seems that Wikipedia takes no action over this and even allows people to mobilise on communalist lines and target individuals! It goes beyond the necessary requirement to organise people to contribute to Iran-related articles and into a vindictive campaign to force people out of Wikipedia. Is this the "civility" you and others were telling me to abide by?--Ahwaz 11:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

It looks like User:ManiF has done the right thing and deleted the section "Users to keep a watch on". However, I am still concerned that such personalised attacks will just switch to the talk page. The "controversial topics" section is also still personalised with "attacked by ...". I know that I have not been warned or blocked for vandalising any article, although I was warned over reverting the Arabs of Khuzestan article that was being vandalised by an anon who refused to engage in discussion. It seems that disagreement with their strand of thinking is regarded as some kind of attack and heightens the air of hostility.--Ahwaz 12:17, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Intervention at Talk:Greeks#Editors: Cheated?

Sorry for backing you up, I know you're a big boy and you can handle your own businesses. I just did so, in order to bring things a little closer with you and User:Politis, because I think that he is a user with great potential, but too little experience. :-) NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 11:52, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, thank you for your solidarity. It's true I've become rather impatient with Politis after a few rather outrageous edits he made recently, and after his attacks on Macrakis, whom I value as a friend and great contributor. Maybe I was a bit harsh. Wikistress showing through, perhaps. :-) Lukas ^(T.|@) 12:16, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

It was an automatic reflex. Feel free to revert. --Rory096 16:13, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

You've got mail. :-) NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 16:29, 17 March 2006 (UTC)