Talk:Germans

Choices for the infobox

Those are some weird choices in the infobox. Eduard Lasker, Emma Ihrer, Christine Teusch, Walter Ulbricht, Christa Wolf and Nena? Not to say those aren't somehow important but there would be much more notable people to pick for this. Kant, Siemens, Gutenberg, Planck, Röntgen, Mozart, Adenauer, Marx just to name a few that would fit a lot better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.204.153.64 (talk) 15:28, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

restore original images - clearly no consensus for change - see talk archive. --IIIraute (talk) 16:54, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

There were barely any women in that montage, and the montage is not easily editable should such certain images within that montage be deleted. German identity has become more and more ambiguous over the years, especially with post-WWII Austrians not identifying as ethnic Germans. Did Marx identify as a German? He became a British citizen, did he assimilate into British culture? Sigh, just wait until the anti-Semitic and anti-German chauvinist bigots arrive here to discuss this, then we will have to hear all the barely-restrained murderous-mindset rages by such chauvinist bigots about Germans and Jews all over again.--R-41 (talk) 18:29, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

I thought we had consensus to include assimilated Jews? I don't think anyone would really argue that Marx was British? He is known as a German philosopher, economist, sociologist, etc.. Same goes for Einstein - he received the Nobel Prize in Physics, being a German laureate. Both were born, raised and educated in Germany - both are of converted, assimilated (German)-Jewish background - and both of them did write all their major works in German. So either we do include assimilated Jews - or we don't. Mozart did describe himself as being German - was born in Salzburg, which until after his death did not become part of Austria. The city was founded by the Bavarians and had always been part of Bavaria. His father was from Augsburg, Bavaria - his mother also from Salzburg. Please have a look at a map - some parts of the city of Salzburg are basically still within the modern boundaries of Germany. We are not talking about Vienna. Maybe we could add Merkel, Steffi Graf or Hildegard von Bingen to have more women? --IIIraute (talk) 01:37, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

If they are significant historical examples of German women, then that is acceptable. Due to the constant mentioning and accusations of POV for his exclusion, I think Hitler will need to be added to the infobox. Hitler is a very well-known ethnic German, exclusion based on arguments of political correctness will only encourage the matter to come up again and again - I say put the picture in, and let the issue die down. Inclusion of controversial historically significant people has been done on other infoboxes. The Georgians infobox for instance includes Stalin in it.--R-41 (talk) 03:14, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Although I can't see the need to alter the picture gallery, nor can I find any recent edit requests to add Hitler (a serious non-IP request), I have no problem with adding him to the gallery. If you feel one has to add Hitler, do it - but please do not remove the current file! You could exchange Brandt for Hitler, or otherwise add another five pictures below the existing file, for example: Angela Merkel, Hermann Hesse, Hildegard von Bingen, Adolf Hitler, Steffi Graf.--IIIraute (talk) 01:20, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Deep ancestry and genetics

should interesting information like this not be in the article?

http://www.scs.illinois.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf

Pipo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.109.203.72 (talk) 15:16, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

This page couldn't be anymore bias & Anglocentric. I like how under ethnicity there is absolutely no mention of Angles or Saxons (they DID NOT all leave Germany). No mention of Vikings either despite Germany sharing a border with a Scandinavian country. Despite Germany having more Haplogroup I1 than England does. Despite the North of Germany looking more Germanic on average than ALL of England. Yet on England's page, whats the first thing they mention? Vikings. When the reality is the majority of Brits are Celts, and don't look Germanic at all.

The page goes even further to try an insinuate that Germans are more mixed than they are. Even going as far as to name Jews....Seriously? Both France & England have had higher populations of Jews than Germany. Infact France has more immigrants in their country than the whole of Europe (half their football team is black), and if you go to Paris, there is nothing but people from the 3rd world. No mention of this on France's page? yet they mention "Gauls" as if the french are anything similar to Gauls today.

Jews should not have even been listed anywhere on a topic about German ethnicity, they have remained a small number, and they generally have entirely different Haplogroups, and genetic markers than ethnic Germans and Europeans for the matter. They have nothing to do with modern German genetic make up. If you want to link Jews to someone in Europe, try Sicilians, thats who they cluster with, not Germans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4EA:CA0:FDE4:FA3E:2BE4:137F (talk) 15:28, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Why exactly do you take so much offense to the idea that most Jews are of German ancestry and that likewise there are likely Germans who had ancestors in the Jewish faith? I find it strange you seem to mention things like purity, "Germanicness" (protip- finland is blonder and more blue eyed than any "Germanic" country except Sweden)and Jews.96.231.17.247 (talk) 15:52, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

I also find very weird the comments by the former user. Just for the record, since he mentions it, according to the Genetic Map above, England does have a higher Haplogroup I ratio than Germany. Besides, Germany, from a Haplogroup or "genetic lines" point of view, is quite diverse, as the Haplogroup map above shows. The Myth of Germanic "purity" is, as we know, linked to National Socialist propaganda, and modern genetic science kicks it in the ass. Actually, if we want to speak about "purity" from the point of view of genetic lines or "genetic families", we have to look at Eskimos, Amerindians or some African groups as examples, but certainly not at Europeans, let alone at Germans. Pipo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.109.203.72 (talk) 04:44, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Karl Marx and Albert Einstein are not Germans

They are Jews. They were Germans by nationality, but due to the fact the article is about Germans as an ethnic group, please take out those two people from the info box. Jews are an ethnoreligious group, which means ethnicity formed around a religion, and Marx and Einstein were of Jewish ethnicity.

I understand you Germans have some guilt feelings for the holocaust and you try to show how you are good in integrating Jews now (70 years too late), but please remember the article is about an ethnic group and Marx and Einstein were not of German ethnicity. Guitar hero on the roof (talk) 12:59, 3 January 2013 (UTC)