Talk:Disney Vault

History

I watched a lot of the making of featurettes on the Australian Diamond Edition of Snow White recently. I have reason to believe the idea of the vault was born when Disney made the decision to have Snow White theatrically rereleased during the second world war. Seven years after the initial release. I'd love to draft a paragraph for the entry but I was unsure how to reference a DVD featurette. Naturally they never used the word 'vault', but they did reiterate the concept of 'exposing a new generation of children to the magic of Disney' (to paraphrase).

Also, I work for JB Hi-Fi. It was announced in our DVD magazine that the next vault release in Australia will be Beauty and the Beast, in October. Anyone else got similar stories across the ocean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.111.7.12 (talk) 12:38, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

(updated June 18 2010)

List

Could we have a list of known Disney movies currently in the vault, and when they are planned or estimated to be released? --QQQ (4-19-08)

Since this information isn't the same for people in every country, is somewhat trivial, would be difficult to find reputable sources for (it would have to be debated whether UltimateDisney.com is a reputable source), and finally would result in an unwieldy list (it'd be easier to list what _isn't_ on moratorium), there's no point in doing so. As such, I removed the poorly written list that was previously here from the article. --209.16.115.62 (talk) 21:23, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

DAMN THE DISNEY VAULT!!! I NEED SLEEPING BEAUTY AND BEAUTY AND THE BEAST!!! DAMN THEM!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.238.152.3 (talk) 12:50, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Piracy

Shouldn't there be more in this article about how the Disney Vault has led to an increase in piracy for the movies that are currently unavailable? Just take a look at eBay or the torrent trackers. To me, this is a very archaic business model. If I'm a parent, and I want my kids to see a movie that I grew up with, I'm not going to wait around for the movie to come out of the vault, I'm going to want them to see it while they're still kids. My old VHS tapes are worn, and I don't even have a VHS player anymore. What it comes down to is, the best way to get many of these movies without paying an outrageous price is to pirate them.

The attitude toward media in the 21st century is basically, "if it's not available for me to buy legally, then I'm going to get it another way." The market can't really be controlled anymore. Disney is not exempt from this. It's no wonder that the bootleggers love this as much as the collectors, but it's a shame for parents and children, the people these movies were supposedly made for. You could argue that many of these Disney movies were the last great examples of wholesome entertainment. If I could buy them legally, then I would, but obviously Disney doesn't need or want my money. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.65.88.145 (talk) 14:53, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

That attitude isn't unique to the 21st century. Only the technology that makes it so quick, easy and free is. You make valid points though. If you can find some articles about this phenomenon, then by all means cite them and add a section to the article about piracy. It makes sense and we all know it's true, but citing primary sources such as torrent trackers constitutes original research and is thus inappropriate for a wikipedia article.24.47.154.230 (talk) 15:40, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Copyright Expiration

Some mention of the fact (?) that by re-releasing, they are renewing their copyright claims, should probably be made. Or at least a mention of U.S. copyright laws as they pertain to disney. 99.236.161.126 (talk) 07:15, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Though this is an old edit, I don't think that's true. Expiration of copyright depends on the date of first publication. A new copyright term is only established if a new or altered work is published, and in the case of an altered work, only the alterations are covered by the more recent copyright term. Knight of Truth (talk) 00:23, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Copyright Expiration

It seems that Tron (1982) is out of print.. does this count as a disney vaulting? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnruble (talk • contribs) 22:01, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Aladdin

Aladdin and it's sequels are part of the Disney Vault rotation as Aladdin returned to to the vault and is not being re-released as part of the Diamond Editions. User talk:RickyBryant45324 11:12, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Please include a source. Please also note regional variations - for example, Aladdin, Fantasia and Pocahontas are readily available in the UK. --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:23, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

And? I live in the US and I know it went back into the vault. But if you demanding a source here. Second look this page Walt Disney Platinum and Diamond Editions. Look into things before you revert someone's edits. That's not showing good faith. User talk:RickyBryant45324 11:01, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Just because something is out of print, it does not mean that it is "subject to the rules of the Disney Vault" as per the article. Okay, yes, so it may not currently be available, but that does not mean that it won't be. If you're going to add Aladdin, please ensure you find a source to show that it is subject to these rules. The source you provide isn't particularly reliable, as it lists every discontinued DVD, not just the ones "in the vault". Please note that this article isn't just a list of what is and isn't currently available. --Rob Sinden (talk) 11:40, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

GRRRRRRR! Read the top part it clearly states "The following is a complete list of all Disney DVD movies 'in the vault' on moratorium." Thank you please do not revert this again. User talk:RickyBryant45324 19:53, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I really don't like that dvddizzy reference - it isn't reliable and includes films that are not subject to the rules of the vault and not even out of print, just re-released (The Sword in the Stone for example), but the official Disney one looks good. I'd still like to see something definitive showing "This is a list of films that are subject to the rules of the Disney Vault" or similar (like the UK and Germany ones), but good enough for now I guess. Have restructured a bit to allow for regional variations in the main list - i.e. Aladdin isn't in the vault in UK or Germany. Hope you're happy with this compromise. --Rob Sinden (talk) 20:19, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

That works for me. :) And I'm sorry but Disney irritates me a lot with their "vaulting" things and me and my lover have currently started getting the Disney films on DVD but we can't get Aladdin because it got "vaulted". Disney's dumb for doing that. They really are. I don't blame people for pirating them and Disney losing money cause of it. They didn't do this and keep them available people wouldn't do it as much. But they'll have to figure it out on their own I guess. But I like the compromise. I doubt Disney will ever give a full official list of what they "vault". User talk:RickyBryant45324 20:29, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Avoiding North American bias and what to include in the list of films affected

There do seem to be regional differences as to what is included in the "Disney Vault", although editors seem to want to remove references to this in the list, thus forcing a North American bias. No reference seems to be definitive, and the goalpoasts do seem to change periodically. How should we move forward in showing which films are in the "vault" in different regions and which are currently available? Maybe a table format? Or should we remove the list altogether, discussing the "vault" as a concept only? --Rob Sinden (talk) 10:05, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

No response to this, yet editors still keep removing the references to the regional differences. --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:00, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

In North America

I do believe in North America all Disney films, or at least the first 36 Disney animated theatrical releases, are moratorium. I have noticed several released but none stay out of the "vault" for long, the only one I do not think is ever moratorium is Hercules as that DVD stayed out of the vault longer then any of the others. 184.58.22.86 (talk) 18:55, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Feel free to add this if you have a source. Trivialist (talk) 18:58, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Already working on it. Disney.go.com shows a lot of DVD releases that were moratorium, example, the 2-disc special edition of Mulan or The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, Funnily Hercules, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and some others are still available on DVD and probably will be until Disney has decided if they are going to be Blu-ray. 184.58.22.86 (talk) 19:19, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Mulan and The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh

Now I know the sources state no longer available but that is not because they are out of print. They were moratorium as they follow the same cycle as all that get vaulted they end up with another release later down the line, Mulan is set for another vault release this March according to interior booklets inside Peter Pan Diamond Edition and Amazon.com. The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh is also following the same idea as well, the DVD was moratorium as Disney has advertised for a Blu-ray release of the film set to be released this year as well in their sneak peaks on the Peter Pan Diamond Edition Blu-ray/DVD. 184.58.22.86 (talk) 20:09, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

I would also like to add that an advertisement on the Peter Pan Diamond Edition for Mulan shows the Disney Vault at the beginning clarifying that it is to be released from the vault for it's Blu-ray release. 184.58.22.86 (talk) 20:22, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm sceptical about Mulan - do you have any further source? It's available for streaming at Amazon, so I don't think we can consider it to be in the vault, just currently not available awaiting the re-issue. --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:22, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Unreliable additions

An IP editor keeps adding selective titles from the following source entitled "Disney Opens the Vault to Roll Out 30 New Blu-ray Releases", however, the article does not draw a direct connection between the "vault" that it talks about in the intro, and the list of films that are being released, and which ones may or may not be subject to the rules of the vault. Therefore it cannot be taken as a reliable source and does not back up the additions. And I'd like to know what criteria the IP is using to base their judgement on which of these titles to include. Why not add all 30? You cannot make assumptions based on a lazy piece of journalism. Please find additional sources if you want to include, especially seeing as this article is not recent. --Rob Sinden (talk) 08:53, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

User above is showing a high case of WP:IDONTLIKEIT and WP:Bad faith as MSN.com is a reliable source and is used on several pages and the user above needs to be stopped and needs to stop removing sourced information. Thanks. 174.238.160.63 (talk) 09:21, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I know it's recursive, but that assumption you make there is bad faith. Why not address the issue regarding the selective nature of your edits? You clearly don't trust the source yourself otherwise you'd have added all 30. I've been trying to look for reliable sources regarding the titles you have added though, and I found a couple of things for Aristocats at examiner.com but apparently that site is blocked by Wikipedia. Nothing reliable for the other additions. --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:26, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

The user above also does not use common sense otherwise would note that the IP that added the source was only looking for the first 36 animated releases was not looking to source the others this obviously shows that Robsinden is not paying attention to the talk page nor does he pay attention to the source title which clearly states Disney Opens the Vault, which by common sense shows the films added were indeed vaulted and follow as the page claims. Second he talks of biased add one when in reality almost all of Disney's releases are vaulted at some point in time only those in the Platinum and Diamond Edition Lines were were on the list when every film released in the Walt Disney Masterpiece Collection that was released prior to the 90s were all vaulted and advertised as being released from the vault. Robsiden has done nothing but shown bad faith and IDONTLIKEIT qualities and has had biased and unfair claims without looking into all the facts. Not a person who should be an editor on WP if you ask me, as my personal opinion but others will not see his faults. 174.238.160.63 (talk) 09:39, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Whoah! WP:NPA. --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:44, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Stating what you are doing wrong is not a personal attack. You cannot see your mistakes or notice what you do wrong if someone does not point it out and a personal opinion is to show that you are going too far. Sorry if you do not like that but that whoah! and direction to the page was unnecessary so striking. 174.238.160.63 (talk) 09:53, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Firstly, do not edit other users comments, per WP:TPO: "Striking text constitutes a change in meaning, and should only be done by the user who wrote it or someone acting at their explicit request". Also, per WP:NPA: "Comment on content, not on the contributor". --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:59, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Contributor cannot learn if comment not made. Sorry but not going to hear that if you are not going to admit to your mistake. You made a big mistake and someone needs to point it out sorry. 174.238.160.63 (talk) 10:02, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

BTW check WP:THREAT is my direction to you cause I feel like you just threatened me by going into a lot of unnecessary WPs. 174.238.160.63 (talk) 10:06, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

• I believe Rob is correct in this case. The article lists many titles including those from its subsidiaries that are presumably not in the vault. If the article lists films that are not in the vault, then you need another source to explicitly state which of the titles are in the vault. Betty Logan (talk) 10:08, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Actually he is wrong. Pretty much here is where it is drawn Rob should not remove sourced information the IP 184.58.22.86 was only interested in adding the first 36 animated theater released films and instead of removing them Rob should have added the rest mention instead of edit warring. 174.238.160.63 (talk) 10:13, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Eg of how Rob is wrong, Mary Poppins is well known as a Disney film that ends up vaulted but it was never on there only the ones in the Diamond and Platinum list. All Disney films mainly those released in the Walt Disney Masterpiece Collection are well known as films that get vaulted particularly those prior to 1989. 174.238.160.63 (talk) 10:23, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Please could you provide a reliable source for this. --Rob Sinden (talk) 10:28, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Agree - the IP needs to supply reliable sources per WP:BURDEN. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 10:41, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

If I may interject something here I'd like to point out that Disney vaults everything they do. I remember growing up during the Walt Disney Masterpiece Collection and how they advertised all the old Disney films like The Aristocats, Oliver and Company and many others being "released" from the vault for the first time. A lot of obviousness that Disney Vaults their stuff is when example The Aristocats was released on April 24, 1996 to VHS during the Masterpiece Collection, it was vaulted and then later released on April 4, 2000, to the Gold Collection DVD/VHSs that was vaulted for the second DVD was released on February 5, 2008 as a Special Edition it got vaulted and The Aristocats was released for a fourth time on August 21, 2012. Note that the page says: Each Disney film is available for purchase for a limited time, after which it is put "in the vault" and not made available in stores for several years until it is once again released. All Disney films do this they are released for a limited time then vaulted until the next generation, until new things are unarchived, or a new source of technology is available, eg. VHS, DVD, BluRay. Hmmm so I think that is pretty much clear and hard to argue. 184.58.22.86 (talk) 10:44, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Again, a source would be nice. I mentioned a few months ago my concerns about the list, as it seems someone else did so a few years ago. We're still experiencing the same issues. As there is no definitive source for the North American vault (like there is for UK and Germany, etc.), maybe now is the time to scrap the list altogether, avoiding these problems, and discussing the "vault" as a concept only, perhaps making reference to "in particular the Diamond and Platinum editions" or something? --Rob Sinden (talk) 10:53, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I agree with scrapping the list all together but I think the See Also section should only have the Platinum and Diamond Editions page. In fact, I'll edit it now. 184.58.22.86 (talk) 11:05, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Also if anyone would thoroughly read the MSN Source at the bottom it says "For more information about The Walt Disney Studios upcoming Blu-ray release offerings, please visit www.DisneyBluray.com​. What films will you be picking up? [Disney, via /Film]" meaning their information came from www.DisneyBluray.com making it reliable. 184.58.22.86 (talk) 10:51, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

That's a massive leap of faith! This just means that the journalist just got the list of Blu-ray releases from that site, and not which were or were not subject to the rules of the "vault"! In fact, the slashfilm article seems to imply that every Disney movie ever made is subject to the "vault". --Rob Sinden (talk) 10:53, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Rob I think it is best you not comment anymore you are not seeing what should be seen only trying to push what you clearly have no idea of on others. I believe that IP 184.58.22.86 has given enough evidence to support their additions now it is time to stop beating a dead horse and move on. They have given you proper and indisputable evidence and it is time to accept it and move on. 174.238.160.63 (talk) 11:01, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Hear, hear! 184.58.22.86 (talk) 11:02, 1 March 2013 (UTC)