Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Jimmy the Bot: Difference between revisions

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Jimmy the Bot

Operator: Jim Carter - Public (talk · contribs · SUL · edit count · logs · page moves · block log · rights log · ANI search), Jim Cartar (talk · contribs · SUL · edit count · logs · page moves · block log · rights log · ANI search)

Time filed: 17:42, Wednesday August 20, 2014 (UTC)

Automatic, Supervised, or Manual: Automatic

Programming language(s): AWB

Source code available: WP:AWB

Function overview: Add {{Orphan}}, remove {{Orphan}}, Add {{Dead end}}, remove {{Dead end}}, add {{Multiple issues}}, add {{Persondata}}, will do general fixes.

Links to relevant discussions (where appropriate):

Edit period(s): Continuous

Estimated number of pages affected:

Exclusion compliant (Yes/No):

Already has a bot flag (Yes/No):

Function details: The following tasks will be performed by the bot:

Will do WP:AWB/GF.
Will add {{Orphan}} tags to articles less than two incoming links.
Will remove {{Orphan}} tags from articles with more than two incoming links. Will run against the monthly subcategories of Category:Orphaned articles.
Will add {{Dead end}} tags to articles with no wikilinks.
Will remove {{dead end}} tags from articles with at least one wikilink. Run against articles in Category:All dead-end pages.
Add multiple issues template to articles with more than one improvement tags.
Add {{Persondata}} tags to biographical articles.

Note: The bot will only perform edits to article namespace.

Discussion

For articles that you are planning on tagging, what are you going to use to seed your target list? (e.g. articles less than two incoming links). — xaosflux ^Talk 18:38, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Xaosflux: this bot will make a (AWB) list of random articles if it encounter any article with less than the required incoming links it will tag {{Orphan}} by tagger. The functions will be same as done by Yobot of Magioladitis. (Note: addbot is no more active). Jim Carter 10:36, 21 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Part 1 is obviously the part done in addition to the other parts.

Part 2-5 are done by Yobot operated by myself.

Part 6 is done by BattyBot operated by GoingBatty.

Part 7 is done by Rjwilmsi and their bot.

Do you really think we need another do for this tasks? Searching for pages to tag with a random way won't bring much. The tracking categories I think are well-covered right now. I need some time to think if we need an additional bot. Waiting for opinions too! -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:19, 21 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Magioladitis I have already discussed it on Xaosflux's talk page. I may also apply for approval of additional tasks after the bot start working. And another bot will do no harm instead it will help the project. Jim Carter 13:52, 21 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My comment is that no large tasks need to be dependent on only one specific bot, so long as they can operate in harmony. Concerns here are related to the selection method of automation tied with random page editing. — xaosflux ^Talk 15:10, 21 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Xaosflux: Then I have some more options like running the bot against the category of Biography periodically every month?? It will add {{Orphan}} tags to articles that doesn't meet the required incoming tags. Or it may also run against the list of New pages. I need some suggestions, since Yobot already do this job so I will ask Magioladitis to suggest the category used by Yobot. Thanks, Jim Carter 16:45, 21 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Magioladitis: Some clarification on BattyBot:

I try to run Part 5 on a daily basis - BattyBot task 3
I try to run Part 3 on a daily basis for the current month & last month (since those tags are visible), and prior months occaisionally - BattyBot task 2
BattyBot does NOT perform Part 6 as a primary task

@Jim Cartar: Like Xaosflux, I would like to see some details from you showing how you will make your lists in AWB. For example, how will you generate the lists of articles to process to see which don't have the required incoming tags so AWB can add {{Orphan}}? If you use the list of New pages, I'm concerned that some people will think that the bot is adding the tags too early in the article's life - which is why BattyBot does not add maintenance tags as a primary task. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 17:28, 21 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Some other remarks:

AWB does not provide any nice way to get random articles because it's a very expensive query and mediawiki programmers said we should avoid it. Maximum of pages loaded this way is 20.
I created a list of 500 random articles and ran Yobot to check how many are fixed this way. The result was 3. Very very few.
Orphan tagging via AWB allows: Tagging if page has 0 incoming links and untagging if page has 3 incoming links. AWB does not provide any built-in function for untagging pages with 1 or 2 incoming links.
Dead end pages has not serious backlog. Less than 500 pages there and usually the editors who add the links remove the tag too. -- Magioladitis (talk) 17:33, 21 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Xaosflux, Magioladitis, and GoingBatty:, tagging {{Orphan}} and {{Dead end}} will not going to be the primary task. It will add tags only if it encounter any article that doesn't have any Wikilinks or have 0 incoming links. The primary tasks are:

Removing {{Orphan}}, the same way Battybot does.
Removing {{Dead end}}, the same way Yobot does.
Adding {{Persondata}} to biographical articles.
Doing general fixings.
Adding {{Multiple issues}} to articles in the new page list.

Very simple but helpful tasks. I hope this will clarify the concerns. Thanks, Jim Carter 16:38, 22 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim Cartar: Will these tasks run all together or separately? What logic will you use to skip articles when these specific changes are not made? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 21:03, 22 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Xaosflux: It may or may not run separately. For example: It will run against Category:Orphaned articles and Category:All dead-end pages separately but while de-orphaning an article if it encounter an article which doesn't have any wikilink, it will add {{Dead end}} tag. Will perform skip if no changes were made, page doesn't exist, only cosmetic changes were made and only casing changes. It will perform general fixings when ever it encounters. Jim Carter 04:35, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim Cartar: there is an option "Skip if no auto tag changes" which suits the task better. -- Magioladitis (talk) 05:57, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thanks Magioladitis I missed that one. Jim Carter (from public cyber) 07:19, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Xaosflux and GoingBatty:, So, as far as I understand is that there will be no special settings loaded nor script, no F&R rules. In fact the proposal is that the bot will run general fixes on lists with some skip options activated. In general, this is not a bad idea since we are already doing it by other bots. My concerns are the following:

From the discussion I am not convinced that Jim Cartar is experienced enough to perform this task (yet). Me or someone else could provide of course the correct skip options to run the task and fix the request above. For instance, AWB's autotagger does not provide must flexibility and Persondata is not part of autotagger. So at first glance, the tasks should be changed to:

Adding/removing tags via AWB
Additionally, doing general fixings including Persondata/Multiple issues addition

There is still the problem in which categories the bot will run.

But I an not satisfied with the fact that Jim Cartar does not seem to have used AWB a lot.

The tagging tasks at this level are not that backloged. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:31, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim Cartar: do you have a compiler and can compile your own AWB versions? -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:31, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Magioladitis: I have used AWB alot with more than 100 edits/day and have more than 1200 edits. Please don't doubt my experience, I can operate the bot without blowing up anything. I can assure you that the bot will do no harm. Since this is my first request for Bot approval, I'm a bit confused. As Magioladitis already mentioned the tasks so I'm not going to say it again. The tasks mentioned by him is what the bot will do. No, I don't have a compiler but I have a de-compiler. And I will also ask for approval of additional tasks once I start operating a bot who does simple tasks. Jim Carter (from public cyber) 15:30, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim Carter - Public: My main concern is that you set up AWB so that it does not make insignificant or inconsequential edits. For your task to add {{Persondata}}, could you please explain how you will make your lists and how you will skip the edit when {{Persondata}} is not added? Could you please do the same for adding {{multiple issues}}? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 00:10, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@GoingBatty:, I will create a list of new pages. It will add {{multiple issues}} to articles that has already been tagged by two or more improvement tags. Jim Carter (from public cyber) 03:01, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim Carter - Public: How will you skip pages that already have {{multiple issues}}? How will you skip pages where {{multiple issues}} was not added? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 03:04, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@GoingBatty: Skip if no changes were made, Skip if no auto tag is placed. Along with adding {{Persondata}} to biographical articles it will also add parameters and short descriptions by running against Category:Persondata templates without name parameter and Category:Persondata templates without short description parameter. Jim Carter (from public cyber) 03:16, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim Carter - Public: How exactly are you going to add short descriptions to Persondata? AWB does not do that as general fixes. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:47, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim Carter - Public: you did not reply GoingBatty's question. AWB's built-in skip options won;t help in skipping a page if it already has a Multiple issues tag. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:43, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Magioladitis: Short descriptions will be added semi-automatically. If a page already has multiple issues tag then the bot will perform other general fixings if no changes were made it will skip. Jim Carter (from public cyber) 09:26, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim Carter - Public: how are you going to choose what description to add in Persondata? Manually? You do not need a bot for that then. -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:32, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Notes mainly for myself; For Orphan: There is also Category:All orphaned articles. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:33, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, manually. But it is a task that will be done once a month after I see enough backlog. Btw I know about that category. I have been a former member of WP:ORPHAN. See WT:ORPHAN, I along with Kvng have also organised a de-orphange BLD few months ago. Jim Carter (from public cyber) 15:20, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim Carter - Public: so for this task you do not need a bot account. Better do it from your main or alternative account. Many other editors do it. You can of course use AWB but better not hide this edits under b flag. What about the multiple issues one? Is this going to be done manually too? -- Magioladitis (talk) 15:32, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No, Multiple issues tag will be done automatically. I addressed it above. Jim Carter (from public cyber) 16:01, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim Carter - Public: GoingBatty asked you how you are going to skip the page if it already has a multiple issues tag since AWB does not provide this option in its built-in skip options. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:17, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim Carter - Public: It's very challenging for me to try to follow your thought process on these different bot tasks. I suggest you narrow this request to one task, and update the function details with how you will make the list and how you will set the skip options. Other tasks could be requested as Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Jimmy the Bot 2, Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Jimmy the Bot 3, etc. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 16:19, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 115: / Line 115: @@
 ::::No, Multiple issues tag will be done automatically. I addressed it above.  '''[[User talk:Jim Carter - Public|<span style="color:#000000">Jim</span> <span style="color:#FF0000">Carter</span> <span style="color:#FFCC00">(''from public cyber'')</span>]]''' 16:01, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
 :::::{{ping|Jim Carter - Public}} [[User:GoingBatty|GoingBatty]] asked you how you are going to skip the page if it already has a multiple issues tag since AWB does not provide this option in its built-in skip options. -- [[User:Magioladitis|Magioladitis]] ([[User talk:Magioladitis|talk]]) 16:17, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
+{{outdent}}{{ping|Jim Carter - Public}} It's very challenging for me to try to follow your thought process on these different bot tasks.  I suggest you narrow this request to '''one''' task, and update the function details with how you will make the list and how you will set the skip options.  Other tasks could be requested as [[Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Jimmy the Bot 2]], [[Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Jimmy the Bot 3]], etc.  Thanks!  [[User:GoingBatty|GoingBatty]] ([[User talk:GoingBatty|talk]]) 16:19, 24 August 2014 (UTC)