Talk:Russian Black Pied cattle

Requested moves

• Russian Black Pied → Russian Black Pied cattle
• German black pied (cattle) → German Black Pied cattle
• German Red Pied → German Red Pied cattle
• Chinese black pied → Chinese Black Pied cattle

– Consistency with Ennstal Mountain Pied cattle and Black Pied Dairy cattle, Siberian Black Pied pig, plus numerous similar names like Small Black pig, Northern European short-tailed sheep, etc. Note that the added species common name at the end ("cattle") is not capitalized, because it's not part of the formal name of the breed; the species is capitalized only in the few cases when it is invariably part of the name, as in American Quarter Horse, Norwegian Forest Cat, Bernese Mountain Dog. The "(cattle)" parenthetical disambiguation in one case is contraindicated by WP:NATURAL, and inconsitent with almost all other cattle article names. Disambiguation is non-parenthetic, per WP:NATURAL policy, and per the vast majority of animal breed article names.(I'm going on the assumption that we want to capitalize breed names at all, as we're mostly presently doing, thus a few capitalization fixes in these renames. If some object to this practice generally, I would suggest that this RM is not the place for that discussion, so please don't cloud the RM by injecting arguments relating to that other topic.)  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  13:45, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

• SMcCandlish ☺ what do you think on a universal move to xxx (cattle)? I definitely agree that some change is needed. Gregkaye ✍♪ 16:35, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

• Gregkaye, I'm strongly opposed to parenthetical disambiguation in these cases; it's been on the decline in these articles for a long time (and other places where it's not needed), since WP:NATURAL policy tells us not to use it unless we have to, and we certainly don't have to here. I'm strongly in favor of "Breedname cattle" format, not "Breedname (cattle)", in any case like these where there's any potential for confusion. I think Dicklyon prefers to use them across-the-board, for consistency. Regardless, only a small minority of articles on breeds still use parenthetical disambiguation. I'm not sure I'm wild about it in cases like Adaptaur and Brangus (made up names that won't conflict with anything) or Cinta Senese and Wessex Saddleback (where the word combination is odd enough it's not likely to conflict, either, and doesn't raise major ambiguity issues). I'm not 100% opposed to using Adaptaur cattle, just maybe 75%. It is, of course, the natural-language way we all disambiguate breed names in real life anyway, but those ones don't seem to need it. The others I listed today sure do; Asturian Mountain is a terrible article title for an animal breed. PS: I'm not limiting this to cattle; Manx cat is preferable to Manx (cat). The reliable sources support this, too; there's probably no breed on the planet for which one cannot readily find piles of "Breedname species" format references in RS, e.g. "State of Russian Black Pied cattle breeding in Vologda region"[1], etc., etc.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  17:46, 15 September 2014 (UTC)