Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Halo

IMPORTANT: People are not responding to questions, messages and other things. People ask important questions and they don't get answers. In the current first section, AfD: Vehicles, I asked five days ago if I was right in saying that the page was deleted. No one answered. We don't even know if people voted to keep it. You need to say stuff like that here, and you should have this page on watch. Come on guys, we need to get our act together and start acting like a real WikiProject.

Also plz note: this thing needs an archive. I've got no idea how to make one, if someone could please do that it would be great. -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion

You might consider linking prominently to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction), which all editors of Halo articles should keep in mind. The Halo article that I've browsed seem to be very good about presenting Halo information from an "out-of-universe" perspective, but enthusiastic new editors might not realize how things ought to be done. Good luck!--ragesoss 22:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

A way to keep track of progress

Since there aren't hundreds and hundreds of articles about Halo, one way to keep track of progress on all of them is to leverage Wikipedia 1.0's Mathbot. See Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Index of subjects and Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Machinima articles by quality for how WikiProject Machinima does it. — TKD::Talk 15:11, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Halo Template Question

On the Halo Template there is a link to a Dead or Alive character called "Nicole". Now while she is a SPARTAN, should she be considered part of the Halo universe? -007bond 23:31, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

She would be considered non-canon, considering DOA is not a Halo game.--Zxcvbnm 17:37, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

So do we remove her? -007bond 00:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

She's still Bungie intellectual property. ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 11:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I say leave it, as Bungie specifically created the character and it comes from the Halo canon, though now divorced from it. David Fuchs 21:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Halo Template Question 2

I have discovered after visiting the Halo 2 page, that some characters from that game have there own page, while on the Halo Template, they are listed as being under the Halo characters page. Some characters on the Halo 2 page aren't even on the Halo Template. Should this be remedied? -007bond 00:06, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, all minor characters should be merged into the Halo characters page.--Zxcvbnm 16:20, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

So what's the plan of action and who's going to do it? -007bond 00:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

No answer. I don't have the time to do something like this. Someone else needs to step in. Come on guys. -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Halo WikiProject Template

I have taken the liberty of creating a template for the wikiproject. I modelled it off the Scouting one, but did not have a picture to add to it. If someone would like to add it to the main page (I don't know how or where to put it), they can, but it probably requires further editing before being placed on the project page. -007bond

I just added an image off the Halo article, it can be changed with any image that seems fit, I'm going to add it to the project page now. GWatson • ^TALK 16:09, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Problem with that image is that it's fair-use, which isn't justified on talk pages. It may not be easy to find a suitable freely licensed image. — TKD::Talk 16:13, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if I'm sounding like a lawyer (I'm not one), but I really want to see us do this right. I don't think that using Bungie's stylized Halo text is kosher, as normally such an image would be covered under {{logo}}. Adding extra stuff around it doesn't change the fact that it's still Bungie's copyright and trademark. — TKD::Talk 17:33, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Fixed, but the template still needs a little editing GWatson • ^TALK 11:20, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Has anyone been through the list of articles on the project page and put it on every talk page? -007bond 00:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I have been to every page on the list on the project page and put the template there. What someone needs to do now is to go back to every article and talk page and see which ones need copy editing or cleanup and post that on the to-do list on the project page. I saw quite a lot of articles that did need it. -007bond 01:24, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I changed the logo again, anyone can revert it, i just thought the current one clashed a little too much with the template box. I don't see why using the Halo font (which I have) is particularly evil in this case, but I didn't use it to avoid argument until we can reach a consensus. David Fuchs 23:40, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

By all accounts, the Halo font was designed by Bungie specifically for the Halo logo. To use it would not be fair use because we'd be going beyond the realm of merely identifying Bungie's product (an acceptable use of trademarked logos) and using it to identify material for something else. Just because something's free of charge to obtain doesn't mean that it's legally usable in the sense that Wikipedia requires (modification, redistribution, etc.) for what it calls "free" images. — TKD::Talk 02:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

List of Halo articles in the WikiProject

Why are there three articles designated to two albums? Each volume of the Halo 2 soundtrack has it's own article, but there's another article for both volumes. Should we remedy this? -007bond 04:43, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

We should decide which is better two articles or one. I think the easiest solution is to merge all information into one then redirect the other two articles, but thats just my suggestion. GWatson • ^TALK 16:12, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I concur.--Zxcvbnm 17:38, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Same here. Who's going to do it? I'm no expert at this sort of thing, but I'm sure someone here is. -007bond 00:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Once again, I don't have the time to do it. Someone else needs to. -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Halo 2 Multiplayer Levels Page

anetdote pointed out that the "Battle Tips" on this page are Original Research. Are we going to remove them or not? I personally think that it is suited to that sort of page, but this is an encyclopedia and personal opinions don't matter. Thoughts? -007bond 00:47, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Personal opinions do matter, it's just that they should be kept behind the scenes :) Having a "Battle Tips" section for each map is akin to declaring the map list as some sort of game guide, rather than a brief factual review of Halo 2's contents. Wait a couple of months and the battle tips sections will become infested with various poorly phrased and downright stupid suggestions from self-professed "leet halo masters". Sometimes an article is improved by considering what you can leave out rather than how much more you can shove in. ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 11:33, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Agree with Anetode here. Wikipedia isn't a how-to guide. — TKD::Talk 02:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

::OK, I'll take care of this right away. -007bond 08:34, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

This is now done -007bond 08:54, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Unless a map has actual easter-eggs or truly hidden rooms (not ledges), its Secrets section will be removed. Many of the "secrets" on that page are just battle tips as well. -Cryptic C62 13:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

halomap and halo2map templates

TKD created the halomap and halo2map templates. These need to be added to the project page, but how would we add it properly? -007bond 00:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Add these to the talk page of each page in question at least. I don't know if it needs to be on the front. David Fuchs 23:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

They're more "utility" templates than anything else. When I was working on the Red vs Blue pages, I got tired of typing [[List of multiplayer maps in Halo 2#Zanzibar|Zanzibar]] and what-not, so I created those as shortcuts. I'll put them on the main project page because I think that they're useful, and I'll put a note referring readers to the template talk page for usage information. — TKD::Talk 02:01, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

WTF?

I just found an article titled List of weapons in the Halo universe. It's a disambiguation page, but is it really necessary? We need to decide what to do here, and copy our decision across to the vehicles. -007bond 01:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

That used to be the page for all weapons until they were split into two articles. Should we merge with Halo 2 weapons (since they duplicate across games) or keep it like it is?--Zxcvbnm 02:29, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Keep different, since I suppose as different games they deserve it. Or merge them, with two distinct headers. Either way, your call. David Fuchs 23:42, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I would say to split the articles by game, since Halo 3 is on the horizon, and a single article for all three games might become rather unwieldly. — TKD::Talk 02:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

There's a lot of information duplicated accross the two articles, merging them would actually cut down on the clutter. Each weapon would have its own general description and Halo, Halo 2, & (eventually) Halo 3 specific notes. Both lists are a mess right now. ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 02:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I think we do what anetdote said, simply because that's what was done with the vehicles. -007bond 08:58, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok. Anyone gonna get on this? David Fuchs 12:47, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd love to give it a shot. ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 13:08, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Was this taken care of? -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Other templates

We need a stub template for halo articles and a halo portal. -007bond 01:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Are there that many stubs so as to justify a stub template? From experience, if there aren't about 30 stub articles, then the stub sorters will probably list it at stub types for deletion. — TKD::Talk 05:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've got no experience there. I guess if there is a halo stub then we just mark it with a general stub marker? -007bond 09:02, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

{{cvg-stub}} would do. Plus, if we call {{HaloWikiProject|class=Stub}} on the talk page, then Mathbot will cadd it to its chart at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Halo articles by quality. — TKD::Talk 09:09, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Ummm, could you explain that in English? -007bond 09:21, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry. For now, just tag any Halo stub articles with {{cvg-stub}} (or whatever's most appropriate) and then add the "class=Stub" parameter to the {{HaloWikiProject}} template on the talk page. Mathbot comes by once a day and updates Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Halo articles by quality with this information (right now, that page is empty since I only just now put everything into Category:Unassessed Halo articles). That'll be our method for tracking stubs, since we only have about 35 articles total. — TKD::Talk 09:25, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Much easier, thanks. I'll be sure to do that. -007bond 09:56, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Multiplayer Medals

I think we should add a list of the medals earnable in Halo 2 multiplayer to either a totally new page or the Halo 2 page. Thoughts? -007bond 10:40, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

You mean like this?--Zxcvbnm 12:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

It might be something similar. You know, the things you get for carjacking and double kills. The game nor the booklet never tells you what they are for, I think it would be a good idea to have that list on here. -007bond 21:04, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Arghh......what I meant to show you was a page like what you are suggesting that got deleted. It probably won't survive long (WP:NOT Gamefaqs). Don't waste the effort, put it in Wikibooks/Strategywiki instead.--Zxcvbnm 23:50, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Mister Chief

I recently joined the project, being an avid Halo 2 player and reguler (somewhat) updater of the Halo 3 article. The thing that suprised is that there is no article on Mister Chief! Is it not notable, as not a whole lot of people would care? schyler 00:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure. I personally think that he's not worth an article because he's just a picture in the weekly update on Bungie.net. What else do we know about him? Nothing. There'd be nothing to fill the article with. -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

banners

Please leave the WP:CVG banner on the talk pages. They automatically classify an article for the Wikipedia 1.0 project. If you could put {{cvgproj|class=|importance=}} back on any pages that they have been removed from, that would be appreciated. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 07:08, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Unofficial Websites

Woot! This is my first time working on a WikiProject (though I've been on WikiPedia for a while), so hopefully I can make some good contributions.

I've added the WikiProject: Halo tag to the High Impact Halo talk page, and added HIH to the list of related articles. Is this correct? It's an unofficial website, but seeing as there's already an article on it, and it's one of the more popular Halo tricking websites, I feel it makes sense to have it included.

If we do keep it, it certainly needs some major reconstruction, as I've mentioned on the talk page. Cryptic C62 16:08, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

So are we keeping it, and if so, who's going to take care of the major recontruction? -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Skulls

We need a page on the Halo 2 skulls. The only (brief) mention of them is in the campaign section of the Halo 2 article. Even here, the skulls are mentioned improperly, citing Mythic as a fifth difficulty level. Given my intimate familiarity with the skulls, I nominate my handsome self to start the page. Cryptic C62 16:48, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Be careful, though. Wikipedia is not a game guide, so I'm not sure that a separate page on them is really warranted. — TKD::Talk 17:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Halo 2 Skulls is up, and I feel it is worthy of being an article. It doesn't act as a guide, it acts as a reference.Cryptic C62 17:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I think something like that would fit in better at Strategywiki, where they are recommending we merge all the game-guide-ish articles.--Zxcvbnm 16:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I firmly believe this is not a game guide page. If it were a game guide, it would include the exact locations of the skulls, tips on how to get them, tips on how to play with various skulls activated. That's not what it's for. It just lists the level and effects of each skull. --Cryptic C62 14:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I gotta agree with Cryptic C62 here. -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

List of Vehicles (Featured Collab.)

Just wanted to say that the List of Vehicles definitely needs a rehab. I'm going to model it after the Weapons list, adding vital stats to the top so we can cut down on more useless stuff. Anyone hates it, say here or rv... David Fuchs 21:12, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I looked over the featured list criteria and they say you need to be "informative" and give links to everything you're listing. However, none of the vehicles have their own pages. There was an entire article on the Warthog, but it was full of unencyclopedic language and sounded like an advertisement for the Warthog in a magazine. What say you about individual articles?--Zxcvbnm 16:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Much of the stuff I know comes from the Official Halo 2 Stategy Guide, that counts as a source, right? David Fuchs 22:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

That book is where I got a lot of info for the List of multiplayer maps in Halo 2 article. -007bond 08:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Guess this is too late now huh? -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Spartan and Mjolnir capitalization standard

It appears to me that the SPARTAN (or SPARTAN-II) project and MJOLNIR are always all-caps, while 'a Spartan' and Spartan-117 are capitalized. Is this correct, and can it be made a known standard and applied to the articles? --DevastatorIIC 15:34, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, what you've noted is correct. -007bond 23:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, "SPARTAN" and "MJOLNIR" are the names of the projects (and I suppose the armour), while the soldiers are "Spartans". Bronzey 02:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

New Articles

I put this at the top because I believe it's important. I just went through and added about 20 new articles to the list that were previously unknown about to us. It looks like this wikiproject is a lot bigger then we thought. -007bond 00:40, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Zxcvbnm, is there a reason why you removed the grunt rebellion and hunter taming articles from the list? -007bond 01:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I was rushing and forgot to put an edit summary, I merged those two articles to The Covenant because of their lack of info and overall cruftiness. They are in the "history" section.--Zxcvbnm 13:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, cool. -007bond 08:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Ultimate Halo Map Maker

I merged the article into Halo CE. But on the bottom it says the project was cancelled. Does anyone know if this is still going?--Zxcvbnm 22:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Try googling it. I'd do it but I don't have the time. Actually, you might want to try www.halomaps.com. They're probably the best site on the net for anything to do with Halo, Halo PC & CE and Halo 2 mapmaking and modding. -007bond 04:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't find it on Google. I'm going to delete it because it was shut down before finishing.--Zxcvbnm 21:50, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Did you ask around halomaps? -007bond 02:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Well? Did you ask around halomaps? -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Infobox

Huh, I didn't even know you guys existed.

Well, anyway, I switched all the Halo character articles over to the standard computer/video game infobox template, {{General CVG character}}. Just thought you might want to know. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:57, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler tags

Hi everyone. I'm not a member of this WikiProject, but given that it -- along with all the other video game WikiProjects -- is technically a subsidiary of the overall Computer and Video Games WikiProject, I thought I'd bring to your attention this proposal for the deletion of spoiler tags from all computer and video game articles. An in-depth explanation of the reasoning behind this can be found on the discussion page I've linked to (and a lot of additional discussion on the matter can be found in the places linked to from there, such as the spoiler warning talk page and this archive from it, in which a motion to contest the spoiler warning's Guideline status was successfully put forth), but to briefly summarize the reasoning behind this:

"In no way do [spoiler tags] actually contribute to the encyclopedia's purpose of being informative about subjects on a comprehensive level, and, in actuality, they're redundant of the fact that this is an encyclopedia. An encyclopedia is defined as a comprehensive source of information on a variety of subjects. This is...not a fansite or blog. Also, given that Wikipedia is not censored -- and, again, given that it is an encyclopedia -- what encyclopedic purpose are spoiler tags serving? The answer is 'not a single one.' We already have a spoiler warning accessible from the bottom of every page of this encyclopedia. Wikipedia need not constantly reiterate that it is an encyclopedia."

If all of you could drop by and weigh in on this, we'd all appreciate it. We really feel like we're working toward the betterment of video game articles on Wikipedia -- and the betterment of Wikipedia as a whole -- by pushing for the removal of this unencyclopedic content. Thanks for your time. Ryu Kaze 22:11, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd have to agree with you here. It'll take some time to go around to each article and see if it has that tag, but I believe if that's the general consensus then it has to be done. I'd be happy to do it.

Does this also apply to the Red vs Blue articles? -007bond 06:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, at the moment the focus is on computer and video game articles, but we intend to include television, film and books eventually. Given that Red vs Blue is part of the Machinama WikiProject, it might be best to wait until television and/or film and/or anime has been addressed. Ryu Kaze 13:57, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

So has anyone been around and fixed this?

Canon/fancruft

Hola, WikiProject Halo folks. I just want to let you guys know that all of us wanting to keep the Halo articles neat and accurate should keep an eye out for fancruft and non-canonical information. Some users have been lately adding a lot of bullshit and inaccurate information to the articles, especially the Covenant and UNSC ones. Be vigilant; there's plenty of Halo fans who want to add their bits of fanon to these articles. Peptuck 05:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Your recent edit summary on the The Covenant tickeled me quite a bit. [1] -Randall Brackett 14:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, who says you can't have fun while keeping everything neat and accurate? :P Though I will admit, I've been getting awfully protective of the UNSC/Covenant articles.... Peptuck 08:39, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Then adopt them on the project page. seriously. -007bond 21:49, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Articles for Deletion: Vehicles

Just a heads up that List of vehicles in the Halo universe is up for deletion... I think many of his arguments about being uncited and unsourced are valid, however if we apply their rationale to all of this project, that means basically all lists (weapons, characters, etc) are useless because "we already know it". I suggest we try and save it, and fix what needs fixing. David Fuchs 17:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, we need to keep it. Or all my work on the List of multiplayer maps in Halo 2 is useless as well. -007bond 21:49, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Would I be correct in saying that we lost the vote and the page is gone? -007bond 21:10, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it would be good if someone could answer me? -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

List of Halo 2 Weapons

This is currently on AFD if anyone wants to put their opinions in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of weapons in Halo 2. --208.40.58.179 13:02, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

This thing doesn't stand a chance now that the vehicles page is gone. But I voted to keep it. -007bond 21:08, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Did this page make it? -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

The Halo books

There's Barely any information about the halo books, just a short intro about what they are about, I haven't read any of theam an thus I just have basic knowledge about them, anyone is thinking about taking care of that? --Juan 14:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I think considering how short they are that merging them all into one article might be a good idea. -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Edit Wars

There's been a bit of trouble over at the United Nations Space Command page, a user named User:Tonster keeps constantly adding irrelevant data such as fictional Marine units and saying the UN HQ in Halo is in New York City, among other pieces of fanon and inaccurate information. I'm getting tired of constantly changing his edits.... Peptuck 17:49, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Can't you report him somewhere? -007bond 21:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I reported him.--Zxcvbnm 21:42, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Erg. Its started again, this time in the ODST article. Can we get some third-party mediation here? I don't want this to break down into a petty two-person edit war.... Peptuck 22:10, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Can't help you I'm afraid. If it gets serious contact an admin. -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

A thought on the multiplayer articles

Since "gamecruft" lists have been deleted lately, my thought on saving the List of multiplayer gametypes in Halo 2 and List of multiplayer maps in Halo 2 articles is to merge them together into Multiplayer in Halo 2 and treat each individual component in less detail (since that minutiae is what makes the lists encyclopedic). I think that the broader article would be easier to get to WP:FA than trying to get the lists to WP:FL, especially since some would just as soon have the lists fdeleted. One thing to bear in mind is that the merged article needs to have some prose as well: Information on reception, development, etc. — TKD::Talk 15:22, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd have to agree here. Our articles are under attack and we need to do something to ensure their survival. But like I've said above, I just don't have the time. Someone else needs to take care of this. -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Gravemind article

After some consideration, should we move the Gravemind to his own article? Or perhaps to the Flood article? I would definitly rate it as a "major character" at the very least. Peptuck 21:22, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Considering that the Halo 3 trailer has come into play, yes I believe he should now be considered a major character and given his own article. It will be stub unfortunately but hopefully the actualy game or an upcoming trailers or press releases by Bungie might shed some more light on the subject. -007bond 11:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay. I moved Gravemind into "Major characters" on the template; I'll work on an actual Gravemind article later. Peptuck 06:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Archival

I don't think that this page needs to be archived yet; the material is only about six weeks old. I'll archive when it gets to about 30KB. Also, I moved the sections back into chronological order by start date; it makes it easier when the time to archive does come, and makes scanning the history of discussion by chronological order easier. :) — TKD::Talk 01:48, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Excessive Deletion?

Hi, I'm a long time wikipedian but just got an account recently. Anyways, I've noticed all the pages on Weapons and Vehicles have been deleted. A week ago I found a rough rebirth of the Vehicles article, but it was up for deletion too! There was no talk page to discuss the matter (honestly, it was redlinked), and the notice had been up for about a month, so i decided to save the article since there was pretty much no given reason for its deletion. A couple hours later i get a note (this was before i got my own account) saying that i shouldn't have done that and that it was back up for deletion, and if i wanted to dispute it i could go to the talk page...which was still nonexistant. That just annoyed me so I decided to forget about it.

Basically, what I'd like to know is why it seems somebody has it out for all the Halo-related articles. I just think it's a little suspicious that the two list articles were deleted, and other similar articles are up for deletion (like this and this). Also, I think that both List of Weapons and List of Vehicles were excellently written, very clean looking, well structured, and most of all, informative. Therefore I'm simply dumbfounded as to why they were deleted. Sure, maybe they didn't cite all their sources or something, but deletion should be a last resort, should it not?

Anyways, I just thought this was something of concern, and also, I'd like to know if it's alright if I can join your project. Mk623SC20K 22:36, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

The problem is 1) there are people who see everything they aren't interested in as cruft, 2) people would rather delete the articles (some years old) than revise them to fit WP's standards, and 3) They are killing most of WP:H. For instance, on the talk page of the deletion of Changes from Halo to Halo 2, or whatever, they said it could be diseminated into other articles. However, seeing as they removed all the lists where that info could have been put (List of Weapons, which was well written, or List of Vehicles, which was not), they make the point moot. This has been happening I think as a result of the Artile Grading for Videogames. A lot of info has been deleted. David Fuchs 23:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

If I had a dollar for every time I saw the word 'cruft' on the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of weapons in Halo 2 page...well, we wouldn't be in this problem.

The most annoying thing is that despite what is said there, you can not find the same information on gamefaqs or anywhere else (and even if you can, that's not the point). Whoever wrote those articles would have had to dig pretty deep to find out that the M90 uses 8-gauge shells, or that the 12.7 mm ammo in the pistol was High Explosive in the first game and dummy slugs in the second. That kind of information is not 'cruft', it's based on real-world stuff. I could go to a gunsmith and pay a whole lot of money to have working replicas of (most of) the human guns. And as for the Covenant weapons, plasma exists in the real world and could be used that way some day.

I'm going to try and rebuild the Weapons article over the next couple of weeks, and I'll definitely make sure nobody finds reason for its deletion. Any help would be appreciated because I'm not great with formatting in WP.

Mk623SC20K 00:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Out of curiousity, was there one single sentence sourced to something other than the games, game guides, or fansites in any of the deleted articles? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

It's a *game*, Man In Black. Do you think there is going to be some government report about Halo? No. All the info comes from Bungie or Bungie-authorized sources, who else can you trust besides the creators? David Fuchs 15:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Once upon a time, Atlas Shrugged was described in detail. (If you're not familiar with it, it's a rather famous novel by a controversial author, and one of the foundations of a philosphical movement.) We had chapter by chapter analysis, commentary on every character major or minor, and similar lavish detail.

Then, everyone realized that this is an encyclopedia, and that highly-specialized detailed analysis can be left to more-specialized sites, while Wikipedia can offer an overview sourced to those other resources offering highly-specialized detailed analysis.

If we didn't need detailed analysis of a controversial, well-known novel that forms the basis of a philosophical movement, why do we need detailed analysis of a video game? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 17:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Then I ask you, at what point is knowledge ever useless? David Fuchs 18:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not, and cannot, include every single fact, and we have a long-standing policy outlining what Wikipedia doesn't do. These articles often include advice, trivia of limited potential interest, and original research, and what little is left can often just go into the game articles themselves.

This isn't some grudge against Halo. (I love Halo, and I've been a Bungie fan since Marathon.) I've just realized that you can't have two-dozen encyclopedic articles about two games. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 18:25, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it depends on the approach to how the article is written. I'm guessing that a lot of the Atlas articles were in-universe lists? For one, I would not be opposed to a well-written article on any fictional character/vehicle/object/location, provided that the article is of a decent length and devotes the majority of its time to out-of-universe, sourced analysis — design rationales from the creators, critical reception, influence on other fiction, etc. — whether it's Atlas Shrugged, Halo 2, or The Simpsons. If there's enough of that non-plot information available, then an article could potentially be justified. — TKD::Talk 20:44, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

David, look at AMIB's contributions; he does a lot of work with video game articles. With some digging, I bet that you could find some reputable reviews. Another idea that I suggested in one AfD was to explore how these assets are used in machinima; the Warthog itself was the catalyst for at least Warthog Jump and Red vs Blue. (Yes, I know that WJ was AfD'ed and merged as a result. I intend to research and re-create a better article explaining its impact in terms of machinima, if no one else gets to it first.) There's even a peer-reviewed paper that touches on the role of usability testing in designing Halo's weapons and in particular the targeting reticule.[2] — TKD::Talk 20:44, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with you all. Some one or some group of people has it out for video games on this site, and it has to stop. That information was unique. We need to save what we can to our hard disks quickly before we lose it all. I know I'll be doing it for my adopted articles. -007bond 10:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

A note for anyone wishing to re-create any of the deleted articles: There's probably some potental for encyclopedic content, given that Halo is one of the more popular franchises out there, but you need to ensure that there's more than just in-game information there. Look for reviews dealing with the specific objects that you want to discuss. Look for Bungie interviews to provide production details. I think Halo.Bungie.Org has a very old Halo trailer where the designers look back at the early stages of the game's development. I think it's certainly possible to have these articles and to have them stick, but they have to be done right. And, please, make sure that you have enough out-of-universe information before you create the article, or it might be grounds for speedy deletion as re-created material. — TKD::Talk 20:44, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

• Halo: Combat Evolved
• Halo 2
• Halo series
• Marathon Trilogy
• Marathon (computer game)
• Marathon 2: Durandal
• Marathon Infinity

Why is so much time being spent on sub-articles when these articles need your love so badly? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:09, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Halo/Multiplayer in Halo: Combat Evolved

Well, the multiplayer-in-Halo article went to AFD, and not a single user offered more than a "weak keep" to keep it as a standalone article. Not a stirring endorsement to keep it, especially since there were no sources and it had so many different things crammed into one article.

As such, I've moved it to project space here. If someone wants to totally rewrite this, including sources, that would be fine; better would be to take what can be sourced, source it, and merge it into Halo: Combat Evolved.

Whatever you do, I will just delete it as a repost of deleted material (WP:CSD G4) if it shows up in article space in this kind of shape again.

Look at this as a reprieve; if this article can be made into an actual encyclopedia article, it will go a long way to defending similar articles from AFDs in the future. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 09:57, 29 July 2006 (UTC)