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While improvements from 4 to 3 (there 1 is the best and 7 is the worst) are significant, especially for the country in the midst of the war, labeling it as "great" is misleading. The ratings are still lower than in 2009. Also [[Freedom House]] is a respected authority in human rights but not an absolute judge. I have attributed and expanded the info so to make it more neutral. [[User:Alex Bakharev|Alex Bakharev]] ([[User talk:Alex Bakharev|talk]]) 01:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
While improvements from 4 to 3 (there 1 is the best and 7 is the worst) are significant, especially for the country in the midst of the war, labeling it as "great" is misleading. The ratings are still lower than in 2009. Also [[Freedom House]] is a respected authority in human rights but not an absolute judge. I have attributed and expanded the info so to make it more neutral. [[User:Alex Bakharev|Alex Bakharev]] ([[User talk:Alex Bakharev|talk]]) 01:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
::I agree, this is good fix. [[User:My very best wishes|My very best wishes]] ([[User talk:My very best wishes|talk]]) 02:13, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
::I agree, this is good fix. [[User:My very best wishes|My very best wishes]] ([[User talk:My very best wishes|talk]]) 02:13, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

== Torture and conditions in detention ==

It is stated in the above mentioned section that "Reports of torture and ill-treatment by police persisted during the tenure of ousted president [[Viktor Yanukovych]]" Two sources are cited:IHF REPORT 2007 and UNHR. 2007. Since Viktor Yanukovych was elected president in 2010, one is left to wonder whether these venerable institutions are endowed with the gift of [[Precognition]]. [[User:Γνῶθι σεαυτόν|Γνῶθι σεαυτόν]] ([[User talk:Γνῶθι σεαυτόν|talk]]) 01:11, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 01:11, 28 November 2015

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Avril 2010 Amnesty International report

New (Avril 2010) Amnesty International report about Ukraine can be found here. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 09:29, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Newspaper put on presure?

Some news of could be presure on newspaper. Not sure if it is important (yet). — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 12:44, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It never was listed as 'Free' by Freedom House

As I explained here Ukraine was never was listed as 'Free' by Freedom House. The people of Freedom House don't read there past report it seems... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:39, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My bad, is was listed down not as Freedom of the press in Ukraine but in it's total freedom... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:52, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why the f### do we need to speak about Russia in the lead of this article?

Ukraine is not a part of Russia... Get used to it! — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:53, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure where this belongs..........

but the Ukrainian parliament has adopted a new law on public organizations. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:49, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

mention Law No. 3879

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/01/17/ukraine-stifles-freedom-of-speech-peaceful-protest-with-new-law/ <-- reference on Law No. 3879, I believe it falls under the freedom of expression section. 104.34.250.89 (talk) 08:37, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Poroshenko's decree banning western journalists

Volunteer Marek, Lute88, stop stalking me. You magically appear on every article I happen to edit and revert me without discussion. Like on this one, which you had never edited before. I have added relevant and well sourced mention of Poroshenko's decree banning BBC journalists, and others, from Ukraine. This is a notable event which has provoked an international outcry. It is also perfectly relevant to the section 'media freedom and freedom of information'. If you disagree, please discuss your reasons here instead of simply reverting. Againstdisinformation (talk) 16:24, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yawn. FOREIGN JOURNALIST blacklisting is not a NUMAN RIGHT violation. Goodbye.Lute88 (talk) 16:26, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
By the same reasoning you could as well blank the whole section. Freedom of the press is a human right. Againstdisinformation (talk) 16:31, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Freedom of the DOMESTIC press. The forein reporters in question crossed the border illegally as well.`Lute88 (talk) 16:52, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
irrelevant discussion collapsed
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Lute88, just out of curiosity, do you support the banning of foreign journalists? Againstdisinformation (talk) 20:00, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Our personal opinions are irrelevant here, and they are easily overridden by Common Sense.--Lute88 (talk) 14:56, 21 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This is a very strange conception of press freedom that I have never seen defended (apart by VM and you). Moreover, you subsequently made a number of clearly biased and unsourced edits to the article like "Human rights situation greatly improved in the aftermath of the Euromaidan revolution in 2014.". You will have noted that I refrained from reverting you, even though there is clear POV pushing and lack of sources. I am waiting for your explanations. Againstdisinformation (talk) 17:17, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
For you, "In april 2015 two opposition journalists, Oles Buzina And Sergey Sukhobok were murdered in Kiev. The United Nations Human Rights Commission described this murder and others as disturbing and demanded quick and decisive investigation" is an insinuation that Poroshenko is to blame, while you find "The assassination of Boris Nemtsov, a Russian statesman and politician opposed to the government of Vladimir Putin" perfectly alright. This is mind-boggling. Since the history of your edits sufficiently shows how neutral they are, I won't elaborate on the subject. Let's say it is the logic of your argumentation that I fail to grasp. Anyway, could you please refrain from reverting without a prior proper discussion on the talk page? This would be at once more polite and more in keeping with WP policies. Againstdisinformation (talk) 19:54, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Who are you talking to? Yourself?  Volunteer Marek  19:59, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Volunteer Marek: Haha --Reaganomics88 (talk) 18:12, 21 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with everything Againstdisinformation says. This article has serious pro-Kiev bias and I've noticed that it doesn't talk about the human rights situation in Donetsk or Luhansk at all.
P.S. Volunteer Marek, Reaganomics88, this isn't a YouTube comments section. Let's keep it mature. Charles Essie (talk) 21:01, 30 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
irrelevant discussion collapsed
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
No it doesn't. You, and AD are complaining about the fact that it LACKS bias. If you want to shit on a country you don't like or for political reasons, find another place to do it on the internet. Please articulate any specific instances where this article fails POV. Whining about how you WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT is not sufficient to either change the article to your POV or to disrupt it with spurious tags. Volunteer Marek  22:30, 30 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And please refrain from trying to lecture me. It's obnoxious and a passive aggressive incivility. Volunteer Marek  22:31, 30 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Lute88, since you seem to be a yawning expert on human rights, this question is for you. Has the statement "Our children will go to schools and kindergartens, while theirs will be holed up in basements!" really been made by Poroshenko, or is it a forgery?[1] If it is real, how does it fit with your statement on the article that "The human rights situation greatly improved in the aftermath of the Euromaidan revolution in 2014"? Againstdisinformation (talk) 21:37, 30 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop trying to derail the discussion. Volunteer Marek  22:31, 30 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I am not derailing anything, I am right on point, we are discussing human rights in Ukraine and my question is quite relevant. I would like an answer before adding a link on the article. Againstdisinformation (talk) 22:59, 30 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes you are. What does this question have to do with anything? And nice to see you using a crazy conspiracy website for your sources (and one which has been accused of making antisemitic attacks at that too). Volunteer Marek  00:14, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The source is irrelvant, I just want you to tell me, as specialists, whether the statement is authentic or not. After that we can discuss the sources. Don't worry if you don't like the one I provided, there are others which are crystal clean and say exactly the same thing. Please respond on content. Againstdisinformation (talk) 02:49, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ "Crimes against Humanity: Ukraine President Poroshenko Keeps his Word: "We've Bombed the Schools", Donbass Children Don't go to School". GlobalSearch. Retrieved 30 September 2015.
  1. This article is in a poor condition, but not outright "pro-Kiev". For example it tells: "The ongoing crisis in Ukraine has resulted in a major threat to press freedom in recent months. A May 2014 report from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) found approximately 300 instances of violent attacks on the media in Ukraine since November 2013."
  2. The situation on the rebel-occupied territory is terrible, but it is not controlled by Kiev and de facto does not belong to Ukraine. Therefore, it probably does not belong here.
  3. I think the info about killed Ukrainian journalists should be included.
  4. The list by Poroshenko should probably be noted, and it is highly controversial, but not necessarily a human right violation. This is because of the ongoing warfare and the fact that at least some of the Russian "journalists" are simply not journalists, but should rather be described as PSYOP agents or political propagandists. My very best wishes (talk) 03:12, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Agree
  2. We need an info on the separatist-contorlled territories and on Crimea. Most probably in separate articles and a brief summary here. WP:SOFIXIT
  3. The murdered journalists are certainly notable and deserve their own articles on enwiki. As far as we do not have reliable sources directly linking killing of the journalists and the Ukrainian Government the info of their murder do not belongs here. E.g. Murder of Boris Nemtsov is not included in Human rights in Russia.
  4. Banning of some foreign nationals in Ukraine is probably notable but not for this article. There is no recognized right for foreign nationals to enter any country, being the nationals journalists or not. Alex Bakharev (talk) 03:41, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not exactly. Murders, deportations, and even denying visa must be included if they are directly connected by RS to the human rights situation in a certain country. It is another matter that such connection by sources has not been demonstrated in the edits by Againstdisinformation such as here. Much worse, his edit misrepresented the quoted source [1] because it does not tell anything about the United Nations Human Rights Commission. Therefore, his edit has been correctly reverted by VM and Lute88. P.S. We have already pages about these journalists and situation with human rights in Donbass. My very best wishes (talk) 14:48, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Agree.
  2. Disagree. The Donetsk and Louhansk Republics are not internationally recognized and must therefore be considered part of Ukraine.
  3. Agree. I strongly disagree with “As far as we do not have reliable sources directly linking killing of the journalists and the Ukrainian Government the info of their murder do not belongs here. E.g. Murder of Boris Nemtsov is not included in Human rights in Russia." In the Press freedom section of Human rights in Russia, attacks on journalists, including murder, are amply documented. Boris Nemtsov was not a journalist. The point is that, irrespective of the authorities involvement, any obstacle to freedom of expression must be reported in an article on human rights.
  4. Strongly disagree. Poroshenko’s decree is highly relevant to the attitude of the authorities towards press freedom. It is not a simple anecdote.[1] Where is the source stating that journalists banned “should rather be described as PSYOP agents or political propagandists”?
  5. Last point by My very best wishes is a personal attack and, as such, needs not be addressed. Againstdisinformation (talk) 23:06, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Personal attack? How come? This is your edit. It tells: The United Nations Human Rights Commission described this murder and others as disturbing and demanded quick and decisive investigation [ref]. I am looking at the actual quoted source and do not see anything about "United Nations Human Rights Commission". This looks to me as a straight up misinterpretation. Where am I wrong? My very best wishes (talk) 04:07, 4 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The source for the quote, word for word, is in German "Die Vereinten Nationen forderten eine schnelle Aufklärung der Attentate. Die Verbrechen seien beunruhigend, sagte eine Sprecherin des UN-Hochkommissars für Menschenrechte, Seid Raad al-Hussein. Nötig seien eine "schnelle, unabhängige und glaubwürdige Untersuchung" sowie die Bestrafung der Verantwortlichen."[2] Die Zeit is, as far as I know, a reliable source. Againstdisinformation (talk) 21:32, 4 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No, as clear from the diff above [2], you included the following text which did not use Die Zeit as as source:

In april 2015 two opposition journalists, Oles Buzina And Sergey Sukhobok were murdered in Kiev. The United Nations Human Rights Commission described this murder and others as disturbing and demanded quick and decisive investigation. [3] [ref to ibitimes.com]

My very best wishes (talk) 22:47, 4 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I may have forgotten to provide a link to Die Zeit, I don't have time to check right now, but anyway, it shouldn't be hard to fix. Againstdisinformation (talk) 03:19, 5 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Greatly improved" in the lead

I think that the fragment:

The human rights situation greatly improved in the aftermath of the Euromaidan revolution in 2014.[4]
  1. ^ "Ukraine: Dozens of Journalists Banned". Human Rights Watch. Retrieved 3 October 2015.
  2. ^ http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2015-04/ukraine-morde-busina-upa
  3. ^ "Who Are Oles Buzina And Sergey Sukhobok? 2 Pro-Russian Ukrainian Journalists Killed In Kiev". International Business Time. Retrieved 17 September 2015.
  4. ^ https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2015/ukraine

misrepresents the source:

Ukraine’s political rights rating rose from 4 to 3 due to improvements in political pluralism, parliamentary elections, and government transparency following the departure of President Viktor Yanukovych.

While improvements from 4 to 3 (there 1 is the best and 7 is the worst) are significant, especially for the country in the midst of the war, labeling it as "great" is misleading. The ratings are still lower than in 2009. Also Freedom House is a respected authority in human rights but not an absolute judge. I have attributed and expanded the info so to make it more neutral. Alex Bakharev (talk) 01:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, this is good fix. My very best wishes (talk) 02:13, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Torture and conditions in detention

It is stated in the above mentioned section that "Reports of torture and ill-treatment by police persisted during the tenure of ousted president Viktor Yanukovych" Two sources are cited:IHF REPORT 2007 and UNHR. 2007. Since Viktor Yanukovych was elected president in 2010, one is left to wonder whether these venerable institutions are endowed with the gift of Precognition. Γνῶθι σεαυτόν (talk) 01:11, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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