Wikipedia:Featured article review/Pope Pius XII/archive2

Pope Pius XII

Pope Pius XII (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured article candidates/Pope Pius XII

• Featured article review/Pope Pius XII
• Featured article review/Pope Pius XII/archive1
• Featured article review/Pope Pius XII/archive2

Notified:WikiProject Catholicism

Review comments

I am nominating this featured article for review because it was promoted and reviewed last time 10 years ago. In the meanwhile the literature on Pius XII has developed quite a bit with important new work by authors such as David Kertzer (his recent Pulitzer awarded book on Pius XI includes much relevant material on Pius XII, especially his period as Nuncio and Camerlengo), Susan Zuccotti and Robert Ventresca, which has provided new critical perspectives on his relations with Mussolini and views on and actions regarding the Jews. The lack of integration of these new prominent pespectives made me placea NPOV tag on the article more than a year ago. No one has contested this criticism, and another editor arrived and expressed agreement that the article is currently not neutral but lacks engagement with relevant criticism. Hence I nominate the article to have its status as FA reviewed. I think that it currently fails both the requirements 1b, 1c and 1d - as well as probably having some MOS related issues (criterion 2c specifically) that should also be fixed for the status to be retained. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 10:59, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

It's also rather...large...@Maunus: if you could highlight material that could be relagated to a daughter article that'd be great...Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:00, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

It is 102kb readable prose, but size is not in fact among my concerns and I am much more interested in the article accurately and neutrally summarizing the differing viewpoints on Pius XII's relations to fascism, nazism and anti-semitism before and during WW2. Since this is a very controversial topic there are many different views to be summarized, this can be done in different ways - for example by spinning out more comprehensive daughter articles and summarizing them. Nonetheless I dont think shortening the article is in itself a solution to the content related problems, which need to be addressed regardless of what length the article ends up having. The work involved in fixing these problems is quite substantial, more than I am willing and able to take on at this point, otherwise I would have done some of this work myself before nominating for FAR.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 13:26, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

FARC comments

Concerns raised in the review section included comprehensiveness, neutrality, and style. DrKay (talk) 14:03, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Comments

I think there are two issues. One is the problems raised by Maunus. The problem there is that it is very unlikely that there is any other FAC reviewer who has the specialist knowledge required to judge the validity of the complaints. The other is how it reads to a reviewer with no specialised knowledge. It is in many respects a first class article, but there is no question that if it was nominated for FAC now it would fail. One section has been tagged for disputed neutrality for over a year, some comments are unreferenced, and some are POV. I therefore support delisting. Dudley Miles (talk) 20:23, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, have to say these are clear cut grounds for delisting. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:38, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

• Closing note: This removal candidate has been delisted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please leave the {{featured article review}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.