User talk:SilentResident

Women in Red World Contest

Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!

2020 coronavirus pandemic in Turkey

I will be drafting an addition to that page, as discussion of refugees is long overdue there. If you have other useful sources like the Die Welt one, I'd greatly appreciate. --Calthinus (talk) 02:08, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Fairly alarming situation

Hi, we've never met before, but I've often respected your editing. I'm not sure who else to raise this with, but I feel that this needs to be raised with someone. If you look at this Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/United_Macedonian_Diaspora_(2nd_nomination), I think the situation is quite alarming. I'm not sure if I am allowed to say why it's alarming, because I'm not sure what Wikipedia's exact policies are. But it's quite alarming for a number of reasons in my opinion anyway -- first of all, the very obvious fact that policy blatantly suggests the article should be deleted, yet supposedly this is contentious. But beyond this, I'm not really talking about any specific AFD or article. I think that this AFD hints at the beginning of things to come, it shows the start of a failed attempt, but that things could get much worse in this regard in the future. The details are all in that AFD if you read it. I'm not from the Balkans so I don't have the same focus on this topic that other people do, but I do still often edit Balkans pages. Apples&Manzanas (talk) 18:00, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

@Apples&Manzanas: There have been some notorious cases linked to the UMD and its head, Metodija Koloski. Specifically, Koloski's racist comments against Albanians, Bulgarians and Greeks, as well as lobbying efforts in various countries (often jointly with Turkey's diaspora organization TCA), and (unverified?) accussations of bribery and corruption by the Turkish government, I am not sure I would support deletion of UMD's article. It is a fact that they gained some limited attention by reliable sources. Wikipedia already has articles about diaspora organizations of other ethnicities, so why not this as well? --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 11:57, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Actually, I wasn't trying to get you to comment for or against deletion, but I responded to your point at the AFD. I guess you may have missed all of the other comments on the AFD -- I was talking about a deeper issue, not related to the specifics of whether that article should or shouldn't be deleted. Look at some of the comments from people on that AFD, about how a member of that precise organization is on the record as trying to stack Wikipedia with their members to fight for their particular agendas, about how a member of the organization laments their own organization's article being deleted and "now [they] have to start from scratch", about how that organization plans on starting a Wikipedia task force. etc. As I said on the AFD "I think it's an unusual coincidence that (A) A member of this organization has led a campaign to recruit people to fight for a POV on Wikipedia. (B) This exact organization's wikipedia page gets nominated for deletion. (C) A bunch of Wikipedia editors, with extremely few edits, and edit histories which all largely relate to Macedonian nationalism come to defend this organization within hours of it being nominated for deletion. This is of course, an unusual coincidence. I'm not casting specific doubts on any individual, only talking about statistical likelihoods in the aggregate." Apples&Manzanas (talk) 14:06, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

No adhesive article about Erdogan & AKP policies in the region?

@Dr.K., Calthinus, Khirurg, Future Perfect at Sunrise, and Alexikoua: I am not sure where to open this discussion so, if it was wrong to ping you, then my apologies in advance - the reason I pinged you all is due to your contributions to Turkey-related articles in the past.

As you probably know already by now, there is a lot happening in the region of Eastern Mediterranean lately, with the common denominator being the Erdogan-led AKP government of Turkey. The sheer ammount of information that is fact-checked and added to Wikipedia about AKP's policies in the region is underwhelming. Dozens of articles were created/updated about AKP-related developments, however I have noticed something missing: an adhesive article which can connect together all the other articles about the AKP policies in the region which otherwise are too many and messy to look at, as a list: (i,e 2019 Turkish offensive into north-eastern Syria, Syrian–Turkish border clashes during the Syrian Civil War, Northern al-Bab offensive (September 2016), Operation Olive Branch, Operation Spring Shield, Turkish military intervention in the Second Libyan Civil War, Libya–Turkey maritime deal, Aegean dispute, Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War, Russo-Turkish confrontation in Syria and Libya, Turkish invasion of Cyprus, 2008 Turkish incursion into northern Iraq, Kurdish–Turkish conflict (2015–present), Kurdish–Turkish conflict (1978–present), Cyprus–Turkey maritime zones dispute, Cyprus dispute, 2018 Cyprus gas dispute, Gaza flotilla raid, Muslim Brotherhood, 2016 Turkish coup d'état attempt, 2016–present purges in Turkey, Turkey's media purge after the failed July 2016 coup d'état, Block of Wikipedia in Turkey, List of media outlets shut down in the 2016 Turkish purges, List of educational institutions closed in the 2016 Turkish purges, Human rights in Turkey, LGBT rights in Turkey, Gezi Park protests, Media censorship and disinformation during the Gezi Park protests, Neo-Ottomanism, Turkish nationalism, Erdoğanism, Qatar diplomatic crisis, Armenian Genocide denial, Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, Greece–Turkey border, European Migrant Crisis, 2017 Turkish constitutional referendum, Turkish currency and debt crisis, 2018, Turkish Cooperation and Coordination Agency, Hagia Sophia and more.)

I admit I have never seen such a sheer ammount of info related to the strategies/policies of a certain leader and his political party, being too spread out across that many articles, yet, with no single adhesive article to make it easier for the readers to get a more comprehesive and complete picture about the the particular person and his party in the region. Both the articles Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and Justice and Development Party (Turkey), which are dedicated to the leader and the party, aren't suitable for this.

Any ideas? --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 13:17, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Foreign policy of Recep Tayyip Erdogan. --Calthinus (talk) 16:55, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for your response, Calthinus. Actually, the foreign policy of the AKP government, is driven/influenced by domestic realities and political agendas inside the country. Foreign relations cannot be understood properly if we ignore the domestic developments and the political situation in the country. Perhaps a more inclusive title? --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 19:35, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

The motivations of said foreign policy can be covered in such an article. Unfortunately, if you were going to make a page about "Turkish nationalism and neo-Ottomanism and micro-imperialism" or whatnot, it would never be cohesive, because there are too many competing ideologies in Turkey on that matter (Turkish nationalism vs. Soft Islamism vs. Hard Islamism vs. Secular neo-Ottomanism vs. not-so-secular neo-Ottomanism vs. non-nationalist denialism that just arises from the domestic media/educational situation vs. stable border-ism vs. Anatolianism vs. ... you get the idea). The policies of an administration are concrete though. It's not really our job to synthesize information to make points to readers anyways, and they will figure it out on their own.--Calthinus (talk) 19:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Not synthesize, but cover the key points of AKP's long rule in a chronological order, as well as being able to add information that extends beyond the topic of a single article. For example the Gaza flotilla incident isn't unrelated to AKP's pro-Muslim Brotherhood policies. Likewise, the Turkish intervention of Libya isn't done for good samaritan purposes, but for the control of Lybian oil, and it isn't unrelated to the Aegean Dispute for the control of natural gas. Also the mercenaries Erdogan has sent to Libya are Syrian mercenaries who fought in the Syrian Civil War. Also the Kurdish issue inside Turkey isn't unrelated to the military operations in Syria and Iraq. The issue of strong popular support to nationalist parties in Turkey isn't unrelated to the polarization and tension the Kurdish problem has caused to the Turkish society, which is one of the main causes for the poor human rights records in the country. These are just some examples of how much we are missing if everthing is divided into separate articles without mentioning about AKP and Erdogan's policies in the region as whole. The connection between articles is some sort of a web; sources exist proving the connection between various incidents and the policies AKP is following. According to the sources, always. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 20:14, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

(re your later addition of Nagorno-Karabakh -- really, this has very little to do with Neo-Ottomanism or Erdogan really. The conflict predates it and support for the Azeri side may or may not be based on whatever ideology, Azerbaijan is kind of Turkey's Cyprus you see...) --Calthinus (talk) 01:17, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Actually there is. Turkey is along with Russia one of Azerbaijan's main arms suppliers and one of the most staunt supporters of the country in its military conflict with Armenia. Neo-Ottomanism or Erdogan after all aren't just about political support or shared ideologies but also about geostrategic cooperation and arms trade with like-minded organizations or regimes. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 14:57, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Russia is more on Armenia's side though yes Russia likes to arm both sides and watch the little gladiator match with popcorn. As is Iran a covert supporter of Armenia because it fears Azeri irredentism. You know who is almost as staunch a supporter of Azerbaijan as Turkey? Israel. There are many, many reasons to support Azerbaijan or to support Armenia. As Shiites, the Azeris are unlikely beneficiaries from a Sunni-centric ideology as Neo-Ottomanism. --Calthinus (talk) 16:06, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

The escalation of tensions in Nagorno-Karabakh happens at a time where there is a dramatic boost in Turkish assistance to Azerbaijan and increase in nationalist remarks by the ruling elite of AKP and its partner party, the MHP, that the Armenian threat "should be dealt" with and that Turkey is ready to send soldiers to fight ("to get martyred" [sic]) at Azerbaijan's side against Armenia. Its inclusion to Wikipedia should be the least of our concerns; in the event it is ever added, it should be done per sources and even so, it would hardly get more than a sentence on its own. Just it depends on the context. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 19:19, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Okay that's fair and all. I'm just warning you, if you want to make a new article, you have to be seriously worried about scope creep. --Calthinus (talk) 19:24, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

About the revert on Greek-Turkish relations

@Khirurg:, I don't want to break three revert rule, so I just want to know why my edits reverted. If there's a problem with sources, I can find better sources - but I think the sources are enough.Ahmetlii (talk) 08:30, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Nope, you are using unreliable and dubious sources by newspapers influenced by the Turkish government. You have either to find independent and reliable sources, or not add it at all if you can't find them. Erdogan's propaganda has no place in Wikipedia. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 12:28, 13 August 2020 (UTC)