Talk:Rolling block

Suggesting merge into Action (firearms)

This is a topic for Action (firearms) and should be merged into it.Digitallymade (talk) 12:19, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

• Strong oppose, it requires a summary section at Action (firearms) but rates its own article.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 17:21, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. Deserves a standalone article. Nothing wrong with having a summary at (Action firearms) that points to here. Miguel Escopeta (talk) 21:19, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Case and hyphen

A snip from a book about the Remington rolling-black action being named the "Remington System"

A rolling block is a generic action description, which is why the article title doesn't have it capped. And when it's used as a compound modifier, e.g before rifle or action or design, it would typically be hyphenated, to clue the user to read it as a unit (i..e. not the default non-hyphenated parse of rolling block rifle as a block rifle that is rolling). But when I made such fixes, I got reverted by an IP whose expertise is deep, I'm sure, in antique firearms, but perhaps not so deep in grammar and style. Per MOS:CAPS and MOS:HYPHEN, we should really be fixing these. Other ideas? Dicklyon (talk) 02:41, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Apparently Remington named this the "Remington System"; by 1956, Hatch says it "came to be known as the Remington Rolling Block Rifle", which I'd say is a historian capitalizing what's important to him (per WP:SSF), not evidence of proper name status. If there are retrospective model names (not that generic term for a bunch of models) that cap it, that's OK, but most uses, like in this article, are generic. Dicklyon (talk) 17:18, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

On his talk page, the IP offered a bunch of URLs as evidence for why he needed to revert my fixes. So I looked at them an annotated them to make it clear that we should look to their sentence usage, which is mostly lowercase, not just their titles. These:

1. [1] – A forum (not a WP:RS). Yes, has "Remington Rolling Block Rifle" and "Remington Rolling Block rifle" and "Remington Rolling Block military rifle" and "Klamath Indian Reservation Rolling Block" in sentences.
2. [2] – Magazine article, yes, with "Remington Model No. 5/1902 Rolling Block rifles" and "Remington Rolling Blocks" and "ammo for the Rolling Block" in sentences.
3. [3] – Editorial with "the Remington rolling block was just as popular" and "The 'rolling block' nomenclature was never officially used but became a popular nickname" and "U.S. Army shunned the Remington rolling block". Not proper name.
4. [4] – NRA article with "Remington Model 1871 Rolling Block pistols". Capped in the context of a specific model designation. Probably there's more to this article that I can't see, as a non-member. this other article there has an example of "rolling block" used generically and also "Remington Rolling Block rifle". So, mixed.
5. [5] – I can't see the article. "the Remington Rolling Block Action Rifle" in the one-sentence teaser (copied from the title-case title?). Clearly over-capitalized.
6. [6] – I can't see the article. "Remington's Rolling Block" in the one-sentence teaser.
7. [7] – No sentences available to check, but lowercase "rolling block" in the table.
8. [8] – NRA Museum. "Remington's No. 1 Rolling Block action rifles were available in many calibers. The rolling block action consisted..." and "Remington Single Action Army revolvers, rolling block rifles and pistols...". So maybe the first is a specific model name, but clearly they support lowercase generic.
9. [9] – NY History site, gallery label. "Remington rolling blocks were among the breech-loading rifles and carbines that..." Lowercase only.
10. [10] – Grand Rapids Museum. No use in sentences, so no evidence either way.
11. [11] – Royal Museum Greenwich. "Remington rolling block pistol. The pistol is half-stocked with a flared butt (no cap) secured by steel strips back and front. The lock is a Remington rolling block in two parts." Just lowercase.
12. [12] – Maine memory network. No sentences, but description "Remington rolling block rifle, 1864" and keyword "rolling block". Just lowercase.
13. [13] – Museum of Technology. "The Remington Rolling Block rifle produced... The rolling block is one of the strongest actions... Rolling block rifles were made for smokeless powder cartridges. A rolling block is a form of firearm action..." Capped only in the context of "Remington Rolling Block", lowercase otherwise.

And there are also tons of sources that hyphenate. Just not these. Dicklyon (talk) 21:58, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

With hyphenated "rolling-block" as adjective before system, breech, action, design, mechanism, invention, etc., here are a few in books: [14], [15], [16], [17], (p.136), [18], [19], [20], [21]. Dicklyon (talk) 22:11, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Dicklyon: Thank you for inviting me. I looked through your notes and although I disagree with it, I nonetheless respect your decision as you clearly have much more knowledge of the fine, minute details of the English language along with the rules and regulations of Wikipedia. I've already gone ahead and made some of the adjustments based on your recommendations. Anything not relating to the company and model "Remington Rolling Block" has been lowercased along with a hyphen "rolling-block". Feel free to look over my work and make anymore corrections you may deem appropriate. [22] [23] [24] [25] 2600:1000:B05E:E107:F113:E420:D98:9394 (talk) 23:07, 30 May 2021 (UTC)