Talk:Vichy France

Well, no pb with the standard Vichy, France compared to Vichy France

But I must admit it looks very weird to me to see an article named Vichy France to talk about the Vichy goverment. Is this standard practice to refer to a governement by adding the name of the country behind ?

Why not rather Vichy governement (we French call it Governement de Vichy, that would be sort of equivalent) or Vichy WWII or something equivalent ?

The name of the page would be more obvious as regards the content and would prevent readers to be surprised.

But well, how is that government referred to in english (by the british or american people for example) ? Vichy France ?

User:Anthere

I have usually heard it referred to as the Vichy Regime. Adam Bishop 21:12 4 Jul 2003 (UTC)

"Vicy France" is how I've always heard it. RickK 22:12 4 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Same here. Except spelt "Vichy France" ;-) --mav 05:26 11 Jul 2003 (UTC)

well, that is interesting :-) veny, vidy, vicy. anthere

In contemporary French usage, this government is always called régime de Vichy, or merely Vichy if there is no ambiguity. I do not think I have ever seen gouvernement de Vichy. In English usage, I've always seen it called Vichy France. David.Monniaux 17:42, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Labor (labour) or Work?

The article mentions "the French national motto, was replaced by Travail, Famille, Patrie (Labour, Family and Country)" and I would translate "travail" into the common American english word "work" rather than "labor." Perhaps that would be more understandable to a US audience. "Labour," is read by me to mean a British political party.

Just nit-picking. Great encyclopedia.

Ian MacFarlane

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Anthem

La Marseillaise was forbidden in Vichy France. What did the Vichissoise sing as a national anthem?

Maréchal, nous voilà was effectively used as the anthem, though I don't think it was officially designated as such. Hedgehog 09:14, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I don't think this was an official anthem. I know that after the war De Gaulle provisory governement has not confiscated the song rights that mean if you broadcast the song on radio for documentary purpose you have to pay to the SACEM.... Ericd 20:42, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

According to some web site (in French) La Marseillaise was "forbidden by the Germans" but never officialy abolished. Ericd 20:51, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Revert

It is not necessary to explain that France declared war on Germany - this smacks of apologetics. What if I added "After France declared war on Germany following Germany's invasion of Poland?" I won't revert if you just change "with the Nazis" to "with Germany". john 06:22, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

Revert

I can not see how it "smacks of apologetics" to explain an historical fact which is important to understand the context. It's historical falsification to leave the impression that it was Germany who made war on France. You may consider the historical context "utterly irrelevant", but, hey, this is an encyclopedia. / Elizabeth

It doesn't leave that impression. Why on earth is it important to explain Vichy to explain who declared war on whom nine months before the establishment of the Vichy regime? What's important is that France was occupied by the Germans. At any rate, I will only except "after France declared war on Germany" as not being an attempt at pro-Nazi apologetics if you include the fact that France declared war in order to fulfill its obligations to Poland, which Germany had invaded. john 15:56, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

Why don't you add something like "France declared war on Germany following the invasion of their ally Poland."? CorranH96

Real Power

"Despite the cooperation of the Vichy government the German forces took control of southern France in November 1942 and the real power came into the hands of Laval." Well... the real power was in the hand of Adolf Hitler. Can someone find a better sentence ? Ericd 21:01, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

German occupied France

While Vichy was the name for the puppet-state, was there any name (formal or otherwise) for the parts of France that Germany outright occupied? Oberiko 00:30, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Vichy was not the official name; the official name was État Français. It was often referred to as the "free zone", while the German-occupied zone was the "occupied zone". In addition Germany had fully annexed Alsace and Lorraine, and there was a special zone in the northeast of the country. This map should explain the situation better. David.Monniaux 08:18, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Of course the name "free zone" is somewhat of a misnomer, because the so-called "free zone" was controlled by an authoritarian, undemocratic government which, despite being supposedly neutral, favored collaboration with Germany.

It should also be noted that the government in Vichy still had some authority over the civil administration in the north. john k 19:49, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Need for historians

I'd be much happier if we could get help from historians knowledgeable about that period. There are lots of complex issues. There is also a lot to say about who staffed Vichy... It apparently was a mix of die-hard reactionaries (i.e. those that wanted to roll back the French Revolution, and liked regimes such as Franco's), straight nazis, and young technocrats, who saw Vichy as the opportunity to push reforms that were blocked by the French Third Republic. David.Monniaux 07:32, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

We do not profess to be experts of any kind on the politics of France. WW II, or the U.S. during this time. However, the references to Churchill and FDR certainly are out of context as is the "recognition" of De Gaulle's position. As David.Monniaux said above, this is an article, an important one, that needs expert NPOV input and expansion. JillandJack 16:47, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)