Talk:Seabird

removed some families

Gaviiformes (North America, Eurasia; 4 species)

• Gaviidae loons or divers

Podicipediformes (Worldwide; 20 species)

• Podicipedidae grebes

• Chionididae Sheathbills
• Anhingidae Anhinga

I have removed these from the list of seabird families. In research today the loons and grebes are treated as waterbirds, not seabirds, and the anhinga is only marine over a tiny portion of its range. The sheathbill is usually treated as a wader/shorebird. I am using the Schreiber & Burger 2002 as a guide in this respect, and if anyone feels strongly about this then let me know. Sabine's Sunbird 00:22, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Good Article

This is a really good article. I think that it is FA-quality already.Some P. Erson 18:49, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Protect this page from edits (today alone)

I've seen a lot of vandalism today on this page as it's featured on the Main Page. Why don't we protect this page from anonymous edits? Mugunth 04:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

• Generally front page articles are not protected - they should attract, hopefully, edits that drawpeople into the project. Sabine's Sunbird talk 07:46, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Great article

This is a great article and should be protected from vandalism, anonymous edits, etc.

Semantics

The first line of this article reads "Seabirds are birds that have adapted to life in the marine environment." Clicking on the "marine" link, I find the first line there: "Marine biology is the scientific study of the plants, animals and other organisms that live in the ocean." So is there another word that can be used in the seabirds article? Or is someone suggesting that seabirds "live in the ocean"? Applejuicefool 14:05, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

+ I agree. It should say " adapted to exploit the marine environment. In fact, I'll change it now. I'm no scientist, but I would say that it mkes sense. Tourskin.

• • 'sigh' This is why I study biology, not English. Really, the senetence was fine as it was. They are part of the marine ecosystem, and their biology and evolution was driven by the challanges posed by the ocean. In what sense are they not marine? That they don't fit exactly wikipedia's first line defentition of marine means nothing (and scroll further down and you see that the article on Marine Biology does have birds included) - this is biology, exceptions are the rule. So why change a cleare senetence into a convoluted unclear one? Sabine's Sunbird talk 20:43, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I do study English, but I don't know a whole lot about the scope of the word "marine" in a technical sense. I was just pointing out the discrepancy. I do notice further down in the seabird article that many of these birds do swim and dive, but even that doesn't seem to constitute living in the ocean. Perhaps seabird isn't the article that needs changing but marine biology. Or perhaps a simple "Seabirds are birds that have adapted to life in or near marine environments" would suffice, given penguins and auks.Applejuicefool 21:38, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

If you were to use the word sea you would say that they were adapted to a life at sea, rather than in it. But in the context of the marine environment, with regards to birds, you wouldn't say that they aren't marine because some travel over it, anymore than you would describe a hawk as not being in the praire because it flies over it. With regards to birds, the ocean environment refers not only to the water but the air above it. You may as well question calling seals and sea lions marine mammals because they haul out on land to breed and sunbathe. Sabine's Sunbird talk 22:24, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Counter - editting

Note, they do NOT live in a marine environment. They merely exploit the ecosystem of a marine environment.Tourskin.

I would say that some birds (penguins, auks) actually live in marine environments (although they don't spend all their time there). Others, like gulls, etc., exploit the marine environment as you point out. Applejuicefool 21:42, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're wrong - Penguins like all sea birds only go to the sea to hunt. They don't live there as a human lives in a house, or a bird lives in the trees. Pardon the bluntness. So I'm changing it back because no sea bird lives in the sea. A large amount of time is spent by Penguin chickc and parents waiting for their partners / parents to bring in food. Tourskin.

First off, the line did not say they live in the sea, it said they are adapted to the marine environment. So to say that the line is wrong for reasons that it doesn't actually say is fatuous to put it mildly.

Second, seabirds are also evolved for the arial environment, and to a lesser degree terrestrial environments, however what separates them from most other birds is their adaptions to life at sea. What makes them seabirds is, in essence, their ability to spend long periods of time in and over the sea. Most species can spend days, weeks or even years at sea. Only gannets and cormoranst have to return to land to roost. The rest live on the sea. They have adaptions to life at sea.

Third, the line originally read Seabirds are birds that have adapted to life in the marine environment not in a marine environment

Fourth - your statement Penguins like all sea birds only go to the sea to hunt. They don't live there as a human lives in a house, or a bird lives in the trees. Penguins only come to land to breed, rather than going to sea only to hunt. Birds do not live in trees the same way that humans live in houses, in fact, to describe seabirds or any other bird as 'living' somewhere in the same way as you describe humans doing so is flat out wrong. Seabirds don't live anywhere, they breed in colonies and feed at sea.

The statement Seabirds are birds that have adapted to life in the marine environment. is accurate. They have adaptions to feeding at sea (either on top of it or in it). It does not claim they live there excusilvely, in fact a few lines down it makes it explicitly clear that they breed on colonies, like seals and sea lions do. Sabine's Sunbird talk 01:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

They have not adapted to life in the sea. AT the sea, is a good arguement. Besides, the fact that birds don't live any where (which is not the point) proves that they don't live in the sea. Tourskin.

edit this and that

Well I think the time has come - I think we should get people to start voting as to whether the first sentence should be "adapted to life in a marine environment" or "adapted to exploit a marine environment". So can someone initiate this? Tourskin 00:43, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it was OK as it was, and "adapted to exploit" is redundant. (Does adaptation ever not "exploit"?) –Outriggr § 02:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I give up. This is certainly not worth the arguement. I just thought it was inaccurate. Tourskin