Talk:Ezhava

Polyandry Among Ezhavas

Polyandry was widespread among the Ezhava community till the mid of twentieth century. Brothers sharing a wife was a norm in the community. Almost all history books states this fact, but it is missing in the article.

Puthukkudy1 (talk) 18:21, 29 November 2021 (UTC) 18:24, 29 November 2021 (UTC)Puthukkudy1 (talk)

Puthukkudy1 (talk) 18:37, 29 November 2021 (UTC) Puthukkudy1 (talk) 18:39, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

 Done SSSB (talk) 09:32, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

References

White Thiyyas

Relation between Thiyyas of Malabar and colonial powers was such strong that it cannot be ignored in the article. No report of Thiyyas are complete without the reference of 'White Thiyyas'. White Thiyyas are the Thiyyas born out of the temporary union of Thiyya women with European men. All foreign travellers visiting Malabar and all historians have stated this, and it is an important fact which cannot be ignored in any article regarding Ezhava/Thiyya.

Robin Jeffrey, in his book 'Politics, Women and Well-Being: How Kerala became a Model', pg no.50, states that:

'Tiyyas in north Malabar fared better than in south Malabar, perhaps because land was more readily available. They were matrilineal before the British East India company estalished forts at Telicherry and Cannanore in the early eighteenth century, and some Tiyya families permitted their women to form liaisons with Europeans. A small community — the so-called ‘white Tiyyas’ — resulted, and though the suggestion of concubinage with Europeans became a great embarrassment in the twentieth century, such arrangements brought considerable advantage in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Tiyyas in north Malabar, even if not members of ‘white Tiyya’ families, developed a smoother relationship with the European rulers than Hindus elsewhere in Kerala. The British, unlike Kerala's princes readily employed Tiyyas, and Tiyya factotum became a constant companion of some British officials.'

Puthukkudy1 (talk) 11:58, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

@Puthukkudy1: Isn't it common for colonial powers and the (for want of a better word) "locals" to mix like this? I would suggest that it's only worth mentioning if there is evidence such relationships were forced or otherwise contraversial. Additionally, I am not sure how you to implement this in the article. Could you please re-work this request in the form of Please add the following to section x: "..." Thanks, SSSB (talk) 15:04, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

@SSSB and SSSB:It was never common for locals to mix with foreigners. Caste Hindus considered it a grave mistake to mix with lower castes or foreigners. In Kerala, caste Hindus or Hindus of lower castes than Ezhava/Thiyya never had such a custom. Thiyyas made such union with white men for financial and social gains. From Barbosa travelling to Kerala in sixteenth century to Robin Jeffrey travelling Kerala in twentieth century, all have explicitly noted this. White relation of Tiyyas was a norm, not an exception, and it lasted for five centuries. Thiyya mix with Europeans and the resulting White Thiyya section are an integral part of Thiyya/Ezhava history, and I dont find any reason not to include it in the article. You may include it as a subsection under 'Customs'.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Puthukkudy1 (talk • contribs) 16:28, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

@Puthukkudy1: Not done for now: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide reliable in-line sources. Then I will be happy to implement. Thanks, SSSB (talk) 10:20, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@SSSB and SSSB: Please add the subsection 'Thiyya relation with Europeans' under the 'Custom' section.

Robin Jeffrey, in his book 'Politics, Women and Well-Being: How Kerala became a Model', pg no.50, states that:

'Tiyyas in north Malabar fared better than in south Malabar, perhaps because land was more readily available. They were matrilineal before the British East India company estalished forts at Telicherry and Cannanore in the early eighteenth century, and some Tiyya families permitted their women to form liaisons with Europeans. A small community — the so-called ‘white Tiyyas’ — resulted, and though the suggestion of concubinage with Europeans became a great embarrassment in the twentieth century, such arrangements brought considerable advantage in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Tiyyas in north Malabar, even if not members of ‘white Tiyya’ families, developed a smoother relationship with the European rulers than Hindus elsewhere in Kerala. The British, unlike Kerala's princes readily employed Tiyyas, and Tiyya factotum became a constant companion of some British officials.' Puthukkudy1 (talk) 11:00, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Puthukkudy1: I've put that quote in my own words and added the relevant bits to the article, as well as the citation for that quote. I haven't quoted the other sources, as I haven't used them (you didn't specify any information you wanted to use from them). As I only added the one reletively short paragrapgh, I didn't add the header. Thanks, SSSB (talk) 11:53, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@SSSB and SSSB: Thiyya women never married Europeans. It was temporary union or concubinage. You may please correct that. All references I provided states the relation as concubinage, not marriage. Because the European men would have wives back at their homes. You may also add the below statement:

'Ezhavas now commonly remember their past as one in which their women were sometimes prostitutes to Nair men, yet Ezhavas often boast that their women in Tallassery are famous for their beauty, which - given that female beauty is largely assimilated to pallor of skin tone - appears to refer to the results of past liaisons with Europeans'

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Puthukkudy1 (talk • contribs) 14:45, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Puthukkudy1: I corrected my Marriage error. Could you please clarify where you would like me to add that statement. Thanks, SSSB (talk) 17:01, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

@SSSB and SSSB: You may add it along with the White Thiyya reference under customs.

@SSSB: It would be better to include Sitush here in the talk page discussion. R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 16:42, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Then I'll ping him:@Sitush:. But I'm not going to actively seek him out. If this is an area of interest, it is his responsibility to check on the article. SSSB (talk) 10:20, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

References

Absence of 'Marriage Customs' subsection

Almost all wikipedia pages on different communities have a 'Marrriage Customs' subsection. But it is missing in this article. Marriage rituals and customs like Thaliketttu Kalyanam, Polyadndry, abolishment of Marumakkathayam and the adoption of patriliny definitely deserves special mentions under a separate subsection in the article. It cannot be avoided, as these systems were followed for centuries in the community. Puthukkudy1 (talk) 14:49, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

If you give me what text you'd like this section to include (with sources) I'll be more than happy to add it.... Unless I'm misunderstanding you, and all this information is already in the article, and you'd just like it grouped together? SSSB (talk) 16:26, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2021

Please mention the following in the spiritual and social movements section.

Between the Travancore census of 1875 and 1891, the literacy of Ezhava men had been increased from 3.15 percent to 12.1 percent. The 1891 census showed that there were at least 25000 educated Ezhavas in Travancore [1]. Dr. Palpu had support from Parameswaran Pillai who was editing the Madras Standard. He raised the issue of the rights of Ezhavas in a speech at the National Conference in Pune 1985, which was also editorialized in the Madras Standard. Pillai and Dr. Palpu also raised their questions regarding Ezhavas in the House of Commons in England in 1897. Dr. Palpu met with Swamy Vivekanda in Mysore and discussed the conditions of Ezhavas. Vivekanda has advised him to unite the Ezhava community under the leadership of a spiritual leader. He embraced this advice and associated with Sree Narayana Guru and formed the Sree Narayana Dharma Paripalana Yogam (S.N.D.P), registered in March 1903 [2]. By MID 1904, the emerging S.N.D.P Yogam, operating a few schools, temples, and a monthly magazine announced that it would hold an industrial exhibition with its second annual general meeting in Quilon in January 1901. The exhibition was skillful and successful and a sign of the awakening Ezhava community [3].

Reference

1. Jeffrey, Robin. (1994). Cash, Caste and Customs. The Decline of Nair Dominance: Society and Politics in Travancore 1847-1908. Manohar Classics. p.98.

2. Jeffrey, Robin. (1994). The Brahmin-Nair Official Elite and its competitors. The Decline of Nair Dominance: Society and Politics in Travancore 1847-1908.Manohar Classics. p.187-190.

3. Jeffrey, Robin. (1994). "Social Civil War". The Decline of Nair Dominance: Society and Politics in Travancore 1847-1908.Manohar Classics. p.187-190 Malayalee0121 (talk) 09:19, 8 December 2021 (UTC) I oppose this. The content is wrong. Malayalee0121 is adithya kiran chekavar sock.CoachEzhupunna (talk) 13:19, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

The picture claiming to be an Ezhava couple

This picture is not properly cited. It might be a part of vandalism. Please remove it. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malayalee0121 (talk • contribs) 10:40, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

This needs to be followed up at the file's page on commons. The course of action you want to take, with accompying instructions can be found at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_policy#Reasons_for_deletion. Thank you, SSSB (talk) 11:09, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Table format on the right side of the article page

Could you please make a table format for this page on the right side like other Keralite communities?

Ezhava

[[

Ezhava Temple

|thumb]]

An ancient Ezhava temple in 19th Century near Trivandrum

Total population 23% of the Kerala Population [1]

Regions with significant populations Kerala[1]

Languages Malayalam

Religion Hinduism

Reference 1.Radhakrishnan, M. G. (5 September 2012). "Caste-based organisations NSS, SNDP form Hindu Grand Alliance in Kerala". India Today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malayalee0121 (talk • contribs) 12:31, 8 December 2021 (UTC)