Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Emblem of Jerusalem

Emblem of Jerusalem

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Emblem of Jerusalem (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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There are little to no sources standing up either the basic subject here or the specific phraseology of "emblem of Jerusalem", which appears in a range of scholarly sources to describe other things, but not this winning graphic from a design competition. Of the two sources provided, one is dead and one has no page number or extract. Notability is not clearly established for this graphic as a subject in its own right. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:41, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Israel and Palestine. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:41, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
• Merge Into Flag of Jerusalem. I don't think this deserves a standalone article as per WP:NOTINHERITED. GoldMiner24 ^Talk 08:28, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

  @GoldMiner24: NB: The emblem seems to have preceded the flag as a design (no confirming sources on the flag article either). The main problem here is that we simply have no sources with which to establish encyclopedic notability or clarify basic details about either putative subject in question. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:18, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

  If merging into the flag doesn't make sense, I do believe that the emblem on its own fails WP:GNG. Deleting also makes sense to me. GoldMiner24 ^Talk 17:59, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

• Merge to the flag of Jersualem seems like a good alternative to me too. Fad Ariff (talk) 13:05, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
• Delete Keep Merge to Jerusalem Municipality. I have fixed the dead link with an archive link and supplied another link from Eliyahu Koren page but the problem is neither of these links speak about any design competition, they simply say that the "seal" (is this something else altogether?) was designed by him. Therefore both sentences about the design contest and presentation by him are effectively unsourced (unless it says something in the People of the Book source that I have no access to).17:56, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

EDIT: I have obtained the People of the Book + translation https://yaronimus.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/israel_biliophiles_no6.pdf Hard to read will comment later.Selfstudier (talk) 18:10, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

EDIT OK, I have written up what that source says on the article talk page, it doesn't match the article text but taken together with the other two sources, it seems reasonable to suppose that the municipality symbol is Koren's (having won a competition arranged by himself :) so I change my vote to keep.Selfstudier (talk) 18:46, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

EDIT Sigh. Reflecting again, I don't think this is really worth an article, so change !vote once more to Merge. Selfstudier (talk) 11:10, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Flag_of_Jerusalem#Flag_of_Jerusalem

• Keep. Very similar to the emblem entry. Impulsive people, who lack any stress and live in a world where only education, or indoctrination, matters -- rather than reality or state of public opinion in countries that read English Wikipedia -- think they can change reality by re-writing history and deleting pages. Won't help IMO. Truth usually wins.Archway (talk) 16:32, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

  I don't understand this response. First, this is the emblem entry. Second, are only editors who are stressed, uneducated, not impulsive and not indoctrinated able to !vote?? Third, what has reality to do with this? I agree that WP:TRUTH matters. As does notability. Selfstudier (talk) 21:34, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

• Delete - fails WP:N, and that doesnt mean it cant be covered elsewhere, but doesnt need an article. nableezy - 16:52, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
• Keep. Exists in like fourteen different Wikipedias. Hanging all over the city of Jerusalem. Lots of sources in Hebrew available. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss 20:34, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

  What's the best sources you have for this in Hebrew? There are just three weak sources in the Hebrew Wikipedia version. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:11, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Just a note to those advocating a Merge to Flag of Jerusalem, that article is also up for AFD discussion so is not a promising Merge target if it gets deleted.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:34, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

• Keep. Regular city emblem with plenty of sources. No case for deletion was made. gidonb (talk) 13:38, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

  @Gidonb: Where are you counting this "plenty of sources"? What's the best example of a source with non-trivial coverage? Iskandar323 (talk) 14:53, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Sources are listed on Hewiki. This article should never have been nominated. gidonb (talk) 15:05, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Sources on some other wiki are no use, bring here + translation the sources you wish to be considered. When this was nominated there were literally no source and no-one looking for any till I looked myself, so the nomination was fine. There is still a notability problem. Selfstudier (talk) 15:11, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

It's not how nominations should work. gidonb (talk) 01:24, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

• Delete - nothing significant about it. Fails both WP:N and WP:GNG. Haueirlan (talk) 14:59, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
• Delete per nableezy. starship.paint (exalt) 02:43, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
• Keep, Haaretz has coverage as does this 28 page booklet by historians Olive branches, stones and a rampant lion : the design process of Jerusalem's municipal emblem.. PrisonerB (talk) 11:03, 6 October 2022 (UTC)