Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2022 November 4

4 November 2022

BJ Dichter

BJ Dichter (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

Consensus was that BLP1E applied in March. Since then there has been coverage about his role in the ongoing public enquiry, therefore another event. There was many previous events he was notable for, such as running for office, but consensus seems that those more minor events did not get enough coverage. I think the new burst of coverage does illustrate notability. Examples:

1. https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1929974/commission-rouleau-cedu-enquete-publique-etat-urgence-audiences-jour-16-convoi-camionneurs
2. https://ottawa.citynews.ca/national-news/freedom-politics-control-and-money-the-many-motivations-of-the-freedom-convoy-6048169
3. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-benjamin-dichter-helped-promote-a-cryptocurrency-fundraiser-for-convoy/
4. Also from June https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-freedom-convoy-renegade-jew-benjamin-dichter

Note that news sources tended to call him BJ Dichter earlier this year and all seem to use his full name Benjamin dichter now.CT55555 (talk) 16:32, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Dictator of Belarus

Dictator of Belarus (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

Change keep to delete per the precedent established at so-called "Azerbaijan dictator" page Madame Necker (talk) 14:00, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

• The time to make that argument was during the RFD. Since the Belarus discussion was more recent, and since Wikipedia generally doesn't operate on a basis of precedent but instead on the idea that consensus can change, there's a stronger argument to be made that Azerbaijan dictator should be restored instead. (Not, you understand, that it's going to be me making that argument.) —Cryptic 14:42, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
• @Madame Necker: thanks for the ping. Can you describe the precedent you are seeing that is established? Jay 💬 15:19, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

  First, there is consensus that any BLP issues/concerns have been addressed per WP:RNEUTRAL, as Ilham Aliyev is described in multiple reliable sources as a dictator.

  However, there is another issue: there are multiple people who could be considered as an "Azerbaijan dictator", as Ovinus argued, which is a strong reason for deletion. Disambiguation was suggested as an alternative, however multiple people explicitly opposed disambiguation at the current title, noting that "Azerbaijan leader" would be a better disambiguation page (there was no opposition to that proposal if someone wishes to create that, though no one explicitly supported it). Legoktm (talk) 04:15, 19 October 2022 (UTC) Madame Necker (talk) 15:20, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

  Sorry, but you have just copied and pasted Legoktm's close. I am asking for the precedent that you think there is established now. Jay 💬 16:37, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

  That's the precedent. Madame Necker (talk) 16:41, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

  Ok, this conversation isn't happening. With no input, I won't be able to comment on this deletion review. Jay 💬 17:35, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

• Endorse per User:Cryptic and a clear conseneus to keep in the RFD. This appears to be an attempt by User:Madame Necker to relitigate the RFD because she did not agree with consensus. Frank Anchor 17:39, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
• Endorse While the subject might be controversial, the closure of this RFD discussion seems very straight-forward. Is there a reason you didn't participate in it, Madame Necker? As Cryptic states, that was the appropriate place to put forward your argument that this redirect was inappropriate, not here. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:44, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

  @Liz My sister had a car accident last week and I had to take care of her, and it was also a busy week at my workplace. Madame Necker (talk) 20:40, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

• Endorse (involved, recommended keep) - the close was a correct reading of the discussion. Even if the Azerbaijan discussion created a precedent (which it didn't) that Wikipedia is bound to follow (it isn't) it still would not be relevant because "Azerbaijan dictator" is potentially ambiguous but "Belarus dictator" is not, neither Azerbaijani leader (to my knowledge) described themselves as a dictator but the Belorussian leader has done. Thryduulf (talk) 21:48, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

  @Thryduulf It was in this video where he was calling himself a 'dictator' in an ironic remark. I don't understand why some users here want to treat someone's self-identified humor as an indication of supposed neutrality or reliability. Madame Necker (talk) 21:57, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

  Firstly that is irrelevant here as this is not a forum for relitigating the discussion, but even if we were it doesn't matter, because it is a plausible search term for three other reasons - (1) he used the term to describe himself, so that makes it a plausible search term regardless of how he used it; (2) multiple other people have used it to describe him; (3) the term is discussed in the article. The WP:RNEUTRAL policy explains that non-neutral redirects are permitted in some situations, and the discussion concluded (correctly imo) that this is one such. TLDR: redirects do not have to be reliable or neutral (that is the job of articles), they just have to be plausible search terms that have an appropriate target. Thryduulf (talk) 22:32, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

  @Thryduulf The precedent established says it is irrelevant whether it is neutral or not because there could be multiple people -wrongly or accurately- identified as "dictator of Belarus". Madame Necker (talk) 23:02, 4 November 2022 (UTC)