User talk:Tar-Elenion

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R.E - Croats image

Yes I do like the image you have created, but I do feel that Tomislav should be added to it, to represent the past, and Eric Bana should be tehre to represent the diaspora outside of Europe. —KingIvan 07:01, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Well Jelačić is IMO there to represent the past as are all other persons in that image. The main problem as I see it with the painting of King Tomislav is that it is a fictional painting. As for Eric Bana and diaspora I don't think we need someone to represent diaspora. And besides you could say Ivan Meštrović represents it just fine since he immigrated, lived and died in United States. Tar-Elenion 07:11, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but I think most Croats would think that their first king would deserve a place in the main image. As for Eric Bana, I really do think he belongs their to represent the modern diaspora - especially since he is an Australian Croat, and Croats are a significant group in Australia. Anyway, I have added Tomislav and Bana to the image you created, and I'm in the process of uploading it now. —KingIvan 07:15, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, that's fine. :)

I just hope you used the image (King Tomislav) of better quality I posted at Talk:Croats. Tar-Elenion 07:17, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I used the better quality image of him. I'm glad this image issue is cleared up. Thanks for your input and help. —KingIvan 07:38, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Your edits

I mostly agree with your edits, I just did some small correction. I agree that old Raguseans were Italian AND Croat, and not Italian AND Croat. We can continue in this way. Greetings. About the Ragusan names, it can be ok to list them according to the articles, but they are not always correct. I'd prefer a more neutral criteria. It shold be important in the article to point old Raguseans were a meeting point between two civilation. In the present time, people perefere to demonstrat that they were Italian or Croat (or Serbs). Greetings--Giovanni Giove 18:23, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry

Sorry with my gramatic mistake, i´m a spanish spoken! Ragusino

Central South Slavic diasystem

This term is in use now, the term "Serbo-Croatian" is abandoned in scientifical literature in 1990's, because of its negative political and cultural conotations.
Source:"Hrvatski leksikon", 1995. I'll post you the details of the book later. Kubura 14:11, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Tar.
Let's go to the point.
Tar, read the articles on en.wiki regarding former Yugoslavia and languages of peoples in former Yugoslavia.
The official languages of SR Serbia, SR Montenegro and SR Bosnia and Herzegovina was called "Serbocroat language" (srpskohrvatski) or "Serb or Croat" language (srpski ili hrvatski).
In SR Croatia, official name was "Croat or Serb language" (hrvatski ili srpski jezik).
Factually, "Croat or Serb language" differed from todays Croat language mostly in purism/in imposed internacionalisms, "equalizing with Serb language" (derogatively among some academists called: "jednačenje po srpskosti") etc.. Regarding this, I'll post you some links later. I've read so many books and magazines (scientific), that I've forgot where have I read all those stuff.
Second, leave a remark about "Torlakian" as dialect. You'll make users from those parts of Serbia angry because of that. If you don't want to remove that, OK, as you wish, but than you're on your own to deal with them.
Regarding the diasystem and the term, if you're familiar with some Croatian linguistic names, Radoslav Katičić ("milder" author), proposed that term as mostly neutral. He also wrote in "Hrvatski leksikon 1 A-K", p.545, Naklada leksikon d.o.o., 1996, that: "...term Serbocroatian was heavily "burdened" with language policy that was being implemented; the same policy had aim to push out and "crumble" Croat standard language, so that Serb language can take over the place of Croat language among Croats".
There some other authors and works that deal with this topic, but this is the first thing that I had in my handreach. There are also authors, that deny that diasystem.
However, they all agree that term Serbo-Croatian is heavily compromised.
Greetings, Kubura 20:44, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

We can always make a redirect. Still, I'll try to inform you about the new details, post the links etc..
Regarding other diasystems, I won't do anything, I don't know any other "common" names.
It's important that I haven't made this name up.
I won't do anything on the article, I don't want to make edit wars.
But, it's still really hard to see the term "Serbo-Croatian" on the list. It's a reminder on the language-submission policy, and it's offending to Croats.
BTW, where does your interest for Croatian topics comes from? Kubura 08:19, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Tar.
Regarding the name of "Central S.Slavic", I think that it'd be much easier with users from former YU, than with scientists and students of Slavistics, "Serbocroatistics" from the outer world.
Those from former country 'll understand this, I can put my money on that. Still, there's a procedure for renaming of article (when there are opponents). And I have to prepare some text to add.
Regarding Serbocroatian language, we have to be careful. There was a language that was official under that name in some former YU socialist republics (Serbia, Montenegro, B&H). We shouldn't mix it with the official language in SR Croatia (described in upper text).
The one in Serbia was in fact, completely Serb language (ekavian base), the one in B&H had ijekavian base, and lexic nigh-on-to that in Serbia; Montenegro had some specialties (besides ijekavian base).
About other diasystems, I don't dare to do anything.
Sincerely, Kubura 08:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Note

You cannot delete a source and the fact that it sources and ask for sources in the edit summary at the same time.

This is from the ol' Encyclopedia Britannica:

After Gyorgyich the Serbian literature of Ragusa and Dalmatia during the 18th century has no great name to show, except that of the mathematician, Ruggiero Boshkovich (see Boscovic). His two brothers and his sister Anitsa Boshkovich were known in their time as poets. But on the whole Serbian literature on the Adriatic coast showed little originality...

Also note that Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. To my personal opinion (according to modern-day interpretations), if you really have to attach ethnicity to non-national cosmopolitans like Rodger Joseph Boshkovich, that would be Croatian - but the immense importance (obviously) to the Serbian Astronomy and ever-repeating claims (mostly through the long past history and most recent) are enough to qualify for an entrance into his article on Wikipedia. Such is a thing amongst many of the disputed characters here [a compromise]. --PaxEquilibrium 15:47, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

3RR warning on Slavica Ecclestone

Warning

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly, as you are doing in Slavica Ecclestone. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. -- tariqabjotu 16:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I am aware of the 3RR and that I may have violated it. The problem with the article in question is that it is an issue of revert-war for quite some time. I have tried to step in and stop it pointed people to talk things through before they revert it but I have now, sadly, become part of it. I have requested it's full protection. Perhaps you could do something about? Again I apologize. Tar-Elenion 16:32, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

As you may or may not have noticed, I declined your request for protection. You are not doing anything to stop the edit war; on the contrary, you are continuing it. If it were not for your edits, there would not have been an edit war in the first place. If you really want to do something good for the article, take the initiative of starting a discussion on the article talk page. -- tariqabjotu 16:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Reply

I took it directly from the Encyclopedia Britannica 1911. See it for yourself. That is not a quotation from Britannica Enc. 1911. Currently, this can be found online. That is the modern Britannica Enc. It is interesting that all of Britannica up to the most recent four editions (post-1990) considered him a Serb, but deleted it and then finally (at the modern) wrote "his father was a Croat".

And, yes; that is why Nikola Tesla is present on the List of Croats article; that is why him being proud of "Croatdom" is at his own article and that's why 50% of the time anons from Croatia put that he's Croat and months of edit wars and conflicts are fought at the talk page whether he could be considered a Serb at all. Also, remember what I wrote about verifiability and truth. --PaxEquilibrium 16:17, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

So in other words you can not verify this. Let's go back at the Wikipedia verifiability policiy, shall we? Please remain calm & civil. I don't understand what you mean - I just did verify it. Talking about Wikipedia's policy, it is you who asked for sources and deleted them at the same time. So are you simply saying that all those sources are POV, just because they claim something which yo do not? Don't get offended, but that looks as if you don't like them just because you don't like what they claim. --PaxEquilibrium 16:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Talking 'bout connections to Serbia, his father was connected to Serbia. :) But that's another subject. --PaxEquilibrium 16:48, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

He was traveling Old Serbia (Kosovo, Sandzak, Montenegro, Herzegovina) and wrote works about Serbian Orthodox Monasteries of old (allegedly "researching his roots"; one of his last actions before conversion to Catholicism). --PaxEquilibrium 17:18, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes... so? --PaxEquilibrium 17:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

What? How on earth does that connect him to Serbia? --PaxEquilibrium 18:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

You asked me what on earth connected a certain man by the name of Nikola Boskovic to Serbia. I replied. I don't understand why you talk like an Indian (Native American) Chief. :) --PaxEquilibrium 19:52, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Slavica Ecclestone again

I would just like to point out to you that despite your warning[1] to Paulcicero he again reverted the page[2] continuing the revert-war. Tar-Elenion 17:01, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed and I blocked him for twenty-four hours. -- tariqabjotu 17:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

??

Why do you keep changing peoples ethnicity when you have no sources? Please stop reverting my edits and stop using sockpuppets to make me brake the 3RR rule. Paulcicero 16:39, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

About Paulcicero

He has just accused me of have a sockpuppet?! -> [3] I wasn't even on Wikipedia at the time, I am not sure but isn't this kind of prohibited to accuse someone without any evidence? Also please note that he is also constantly revert-warring. Can you do something about all this? Tar-Elenion 20:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Before I take care of the edit-warring situation with him, I would like to ask you whether you are truly sticking by your story. Are you truly standing by the position that 58.165.122.36 (talk · contribs) and 58.165.90.202 (talk · contribs) are not you? -- tariqabjotu 20:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

You have been blocked for revert-warring with the assistance of 58.165.122.36 (talk · contribs) and 58.165.90.202 (talk · contribs) for a period of twenty-seven hours. To contest this block, please reply here on your talk page by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} along with the reason you believe the block is unjustified, or email the blocking administrator or any administrator from this list. -- tariqabjotu 21:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe you, and even if these IPs in the end are not you, you have caused enough disruption revert-warring to warrant this twenty-seven-hour break. I'll be filing a request for checkuser soon to confirm whether these are really you. -- tariqabjotu 21:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. I wasn't even here, also if you look at the special contributions by the supposed IP's they don't even coincide with my contributions recently so no there is no chance in hell that I was revert-warring. Furthermore it was me who reported this all to you and you block me?! Tar-Elenion 21:15, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

To the admin considering unblocking, see Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Tar-Elenion and the evidence therein. -- tariqabjotu 21:31, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

To Tariqabjotu

I just read what you said on "requests for checkuser" page [4]. Your statement "Note also this 3RR violation notice added by one of these two IPs, followed by Tar's acknowledgment of Paulcicero's response to it. I find it highly-suspicious that just happened to see that." Well if you look closer you will see that Paulcicero notified me on my talk page that "I stop reverting his changes". Of course surprised since I wasn't even here I followed his contributions and see that he has a curent revert-war with above mentioned anons, I then proceed to report it to you and to reply to Paulcicero, hoping that you will warn him not to throw such ridiculous accusations and of course pointing out that he is again revert-warring. And you come to such ridiculous concnlusions?! I can't believe you will sooner believe someone like Paulcicero and accuse me of such things. I have nothing to do with 58.xxx whatever IP's, It is not my fault this person (or persons) are making the same revert's to the article List of Serbs. You may have noticed I gave up from that article, yes I did a couple of reverts there but realized this article is crap anyway so if they want to add the "Queen of England" they can. Tar-Elenion 22:01, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I brought the matter up for review at WP:ANI. -- tariqabjotu 23:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

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hej

Afrika, druže, ponova su ti VelikoSrbi za petama. Velikosrpska propaganda će ipak pobijediti.

Ne daj se. Neretvani su Hrvati. Bog.