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{{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Su fei-erh}}Adding [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Su fei-erh]]<!-- Please do not remove or change this AfD message until the discussion has been closed. -->
{{Article for deletion/dated|page=Su fei-erh|timestamp=20221225213603|year=2022|month=December|day=25|substed=yes}}
{{Article for deletion/dated|page=Su fei-erh|timestamp=20221225213603|year=2022|month=December|day=25|substed=yes}}
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Revision as of 22:01, 25 December 2022

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Randykitty (talk) 17:16, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Su fei-erh

Su fei-erh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
(Error: Please do not use this template in articles.)

I don't know who created this entry, but this entry is full of mistakes! First, you can't find any information about Su-Fei-Erh or 苏菲尔 on Chinese Internet, whether on simplified Chinese or traditional Chinese Internet. So I tried to search from the official history book of Song Dynasty called History of Song which was compiled under the direction of First Minister Toqto'a and Prime Minister Alutu. Guess what I have found? NOT ANY INFORMATION ABOUT SO CALLED SU FEI-ERH IS RECORDED IN THIS BOOK! Therefore , I continued to read this entry, tried to find more information. And I've found that more mistakes than I've expected!

  1. First, the article says:"Template:Tq is only for quoting in talk and project pages. Do not use it in actual articles."
    Don't you know that Song Dynasty never regained The Sixteen Prefectures, which contained nowadays Beijing and nearby areas? All these areas we're filled by Liao Dynasty that times.
  2. Secondly, "Template:Tq is only for quoting in talk and project pages. Do not use it in actual articles."
    Well well well, Song dynasty was ended in 1279 BCE. And nowadays Yunnan was an independent country called Dali, not rulled by Song dynasty, nowaday's Shannxi Province was belonged to Yongxingjun Circuit, Qinfeng Circuit and Jingxinan Circuit. Also Emporer Gaozong never had a commender-in-chief called Kamal al-Din(Who want to be a commender-in-chief under Emporer Gaozong?).

All the articles this page has cited have no relation with so called Su Fei-Erh. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Axel Shen (talk • contribs) 21:51, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

  • Keep - I looked at the first reference in the article, a book entitled Islam in China by James Frankel. It mentions Su fei-erh under the romanisation Su Fei'er (蘇菲爾); the same source also refers to him by the name Sayyid Safar and describes him as a "Bukharan nobleman" which fits with the article's lead which describes him as a "Muslim Bukharan Emir". I don't have access to the whole book, but the snippet preview on Google Books mentions "5,300 Arabs from the Central Asian city of Bukhara", which lines up with what is written at the start of the "Life" section of the article. (Although "Muslim men" may need to be amended to "Arabs"; the article uses a different reference for that line, so perhaps not.)
I also took a quick look at Islam in China: Religion, Ethnicity, Culture, and Politics by Raphael Israeli, the third reference in the article. It mentions him as "Amir Sayyid So-fei-er of Bukhara". It likewise seems to follow what's in the article, and the references actually quote this source.
The sixth reference, First encyclopaedia of Islam, also quotes its source, and if that quote is correct then the book mentions him as Su fei-erh, which is the romanisation used in the article title.
I suspect any factual errors can be amended by verifying the references given and amending the text according to what is written therein. It's fairly evident that the proposed deletion is mistaken, and that references discussing this subject do in-fact exist and are used in the article. Deletion is almost certainly excessive. (I doubt this is a case of WP:TNT.) – Scyrme (talk) 22:40, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
  • I've amended the text of the article following the reference given (following the quoted text) in order to clarify that Yanjing (Yenching) was not Song territory, thereby addressing the first dispute raised by Axel Shen. – Scyrme (talk) 18:06, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
  • I've moved my further findings to Talk:Su fei-erh § Factual accuracy and sources to avoid clogging up discussion here. These findings include information regarding Chinese-language sources. (If anyone finding this is fluent in Chinese and are interested in amending the article, I'd appreciate if they would take a look.) – Scyrme (talk) 00:01, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
• Keep per Scyrme's comments. On the text on James Frankel's book I can provide relevant excerpts. Page 42 says "In 1070, during the reign of Emperor Shenzong, (r. 1067-85), a group of 5,300 Arabs from the Central Asian city of Bukhara came to the imperial court at Kaifeng. Their leader was the Bukaharan nobleman Sayyid Safar (known in Chinese as Su Fei'er (蘇菲爾)..." It goes on to mention that Safar arrived during a period of conflict between the Song and the Liao. Shenzong allowed Safar and his group to settle near the border of Liao and Song to act as a pro-Song buffer zone. The text also says "The emperor appointed Safar Marquis of Yining 伊寧 (in present-day Xinjiang)."
As for Safar's descendants, page 43 elaborates that "Safar's descendants rose to prominence in the twelfth century and continued to grow in power and prestige in all the way through the nineteenth century." The text mentions some notable personalities by stating "One of Safar's sons was made governor of Shandong province. His grandson, Shams Shāh, was given the title of 'Protector of the Tatars' while his great grandson, Kamāl al-Dīn, was appointed commander-in-chief of the Chinese army under the tenth Song emperor, Gaozong (r. 1127-62). Kamāl al-Dīn's son, Mahmūd, served as governor of Yunnan and later Shaanxi province. His sons and grandsons were also honoured with influential positions in the Song state."
This article is definitely worth keeping and much of the content is reliably sourced but double-checking would be a great idea. SlackingViceroy (talk) 19:36, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  • Keep, the sources are sufficient to pass WP:GNG. Suonii180 (talk) 01:58, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Adding Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Su fei-erh

Su fei-erh (蘇菲爾) was a Muslim Bukharan Emir who was invited into China by the Song dynasty Emperor and given a title of Prince by the Chinese Emperor. He played a critical role in forming the Muslim Hui people in China and giving the Islamic religion its current name in Chinese.

Name

Su fei-erh was his name in Chinese, So-fei-er is another variant of the spelling. It has been guessed that his name in his original language was Safar,[1] Sufair or Zubair.

Life

The Song Dynasty hired Muslim warriors from Bukhara to fight against Khitan nomads. 5,300 Muslim men from Bukhara were encouraged and invited to move to China in 1070 by the Song emperor Shenzong to help battle the Liao empire in the northeast and repopulate areas ravaged by fighting.[2] The emperor hired these men as mercenaries in his campaign against the Liao empire. Later on these men were settled between the Sung capital of Kaifeng and Yenching (modern day Beijing). China's northern and northeastern provinces were settled by Muslims in 1080 when 10,000 more Muslims were invited into China.[3][2] They were led by the Amir of Bukhara, Sayyid "So-fei-er" in Chinese. He is called the "Father" of Chinese Islam. Islam was named by the Tang and Song Chinese as the "law of the Arabs" (Dàshí fǎ 大食法; Dàshí derived from the Chinese rendering of Tazi — the name the Persian people used for the Arabs).[4] Su fei-erh gave Islam the new name of "the religion of the Huihui" (Huíhuí-jiào 回回教).[5]

Descendants

Many of Su fei-erh's descendants have wielded political power and prestige from the 12th century to the 19th century. One of the sons of Su fei-erh was appointed governor of Shandong while a grandson called Shams Shah was given the title of "Protector of the Tatars". Kamal al-Din, a great grandson, was made commander-in-chief of the army under Emperor Gaozong. In turn, Kamal's son Mahmud served as governor of Yunnan and Shaanxi. Further descendants were also appointed into high positions within the Song dynasty.[1]

Su fei-erh is alleged by the Fa-hsiang to be the ancestor of Sayyid Ajjal Shams al-Din Omar (who was descended from the Prophet Muhammad), however, some were skeptical of this claim and think it was a forgery to mask Sayyid Ajjal's arrival to China with the Mongols.[6]

See also

References

  1. ^ a b Frankel, James (2021). Islam in China. Bloomsbury Academic. pp. 42–43. ISBN 978-1-78453-980-1.
  2. ^ a b H., Hagras (2019-06-01). "Xi'an Daxuexi Alley Mosque: Historical and Architectural Study". Egyptian Journal of Archaeological and Restoration Studies. 9 (1): 97–113. doi:10.21608/ejars.2019.38462. ISSN 2090-4940.
  3. ^ Raphael Israeli (2002). Islam in China: religion, ethnicity, culture, and politics. Lexington Books. p. 283. ISBN 0-7391-0375-X. Retrieved December 20, 2011. During the Sung (Song) period (Northern Sung, 960-1127, Southern Sung, 1127-1279) we again hear in the Chinese annals of Muslim mercenaries. In 1070, the Song emperor, Shen-tsung (Shenzong), invited a group of 5,300 young Arabs, under the leadership of Amir Sayyid So-fei-er (this name being mentioned in the Chinese source) of Bukhara, to settle in China. This group had helped the emperor in his war with the newly established Liao Empire (Khitan) in northeastern China. Shen-zong gave the prince an honorary title, and his men were encouraged to settle in the war-devastated (sic) areas in northeastern China between Kaifeng, the capital of the Sung, and Yenching (Yanjing) (today's Peking or Beijing) in order to create a buffer zone between the weaker Chinese and the aggressive Liao. In 1080, another group of more than 10,000 Arab men and women on horseback are said to have arrived in China to join So-fei-er. These people settled in all the provinces of the north and northeast, mainly in Shan-tung (Shandong), Ho-nan (Hunan), An-hui (Anhui), Hu-pei (Hubei), Shan-hsi (Shanxi), and Shen-hsi (Shaanxi). . .So-fei-er was not only the leader of the Muslims in his province, but he acquired the reputation also of being the founder and "father" of the Muslim community in China. Sayyid So-fei-er discovered that Arabia and Islam were
  4. ^ Israeli 2002, p. 283
  5. ^ Raphael Israeli (2002). Islam in China: religion, ethnicity, culture, and politics. Lexington Books. p. 284. ISBN 0-7391-0375-X. Retrieved December 20, 2011. misnamed by the Tang and Song Chinese as Ta-shi kuo (Dashi guo) ("the land of the Arabs") or as Ta-shi fa (Dashi fa) ("the religion, or law, of Islam"). This was derived from the ancient Chinese name for Arabia, Ta-shi (Dashi), which remained unchanged even after the great developments in Islamic history since that time. He then introduced Hui Hui Jiao (the Religion of Double Return, which meant to submit and return to Allah), to substitute for Dashi fa, and then replaced Dashi Guo with Hui Hui Guo (the Islamic state). This in Chinese Hui Hui Jiao was universally accepted and adopted for Islam by the Chinese, Khiran, Mongols, and Turks of the Chinese border lands before the end of the eleventh century.
  6. ^ M. Th Houtsma (1993). First encyclopaedia of Islam: 1913-1936. BRILL. p. 847. ISBN 90-04-09796-1. Retrieved December 20, 2011. Cingiz Khan took as one of his officers a man who was said to come from Bukhara and claimed to be a descendant of the Prophet, namely Shams al-Din 'Omar, known as Saiyid-i Adjall. . . with notices of his sons Nasir al-Din, the Nescradin of Marco Polo, and Husain. . . According to Fa-Hsiang, Saiyid-i Adjall was the fifth descendant of a certain Su fei-erh (Sufair?) and 26th in line from the Prophet. . . appointed him governor of Yunnan to restore order there. He was afterwards also given the honorary title "Prince of Hsien Yang". He left five sons and nineteen grandsons. Lepage rightly doubts the authenticity of the genealogical table in Fa-Hsiang. . . According to the usual statements Saiyid-i Adjall came originally from Bukhara and governed Yunnan from 1273 till his death in 1279; he was buried in Wo-erh-to near his capital. His tomb here with its inscriptions was first discovered by the d'Ollone expedition and aroused great interest particularly as there was a second tomb, also with inscription, in Singan-fu. It has now been ascertained that the second grave in Shensi is a cenotaph which only contained the court-dress of the dead governor. . . Among the further descendants may be mentioned Ma Chu (c. 1630-1710) (in the fourteenth generation) who was a learned scholar and published his famous work "The Magnetic Needle of Islam" in 1685; he supervised the renovation of the tomb and temple of his ancestor Saiyid-i Adjall; one of the inscriptions on the tomb is by him. The present head of the family is Na Wa-Ch'ing, Imam of a mosque in the province (d'Ollone, p. 182)
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