Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Duffield Memorial/archive1

Duffield Memorial

Duffield Memorial (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

• Featured article candidates/Duffield Memorial/archive1

Nominator(s): Usernameunique (talk) 06:09, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Relatively inconspicuous, somewhat overgrown, and more than a hundred years old, the Duffield Memorial sits in the yard of a church nearly a millennium older. Overshadowed as it is, however, the memorial tells an interesting story. An early work by Herbert Maryon, it commemorates members of a prominent local family. At the time, it was considered "quite unique, at any rate in this neighbourhood", and even now, it is an "unusual example of Art Nouveau design in metal work".

This article gives a thorough overview of the memorial and the surrounding context. It was thoroughly reviewed in March by KJP1; since then, TheShinji69 was able to take photos, and I've given the article another review. The article is at, or close to, the best possible version of itself, and so is ready to be nominated here. --Usernameunique (talk) 06:09, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt

• "roles as director and chairman of a range of businesses, including the Reliance Life Assurance Company, the London Board of the Norwich Union, the Chelmsford and Braintree Gas Companies, and the Chelmsford and Blackwater Navigation Company" He was director AND chairman of each of this, or should it be "or"?

• Both, except for the second position where the source notes him as chairman but doesn't mention director. I've reworded it accordingly. --Usernameunique (talk) 21:07, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

• 1918[footnotes]) Don't footnotes usually follow punctuation except in the case of a long dash?

• Normally yes. In sentences like this, however, with parenthetical about individual people, I tend to keep the citations in each parenthetical, so it is clear which are about whom. --Usernameunique (talk) 21:02, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

• Where is William Bartleet Duffield buried? France? Here? Do we know who ordered the monument and also had the second plaque affixed? Someone presumably paid. Do we know how much?
• Is there anything that can be said about the drive to list the memorial?

Interesting.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:48, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Comments by RoySmith

Lead section

• William Ward Duffield is a red link to W. W. Duffield, but other members of the family who are mentioned are left unlinked. Is there some reason to believe William Ward in particular is notable enough that he might merit an article in the future?

• The memorial covers the grave. Is this a single grave in which Marianne, William Ward, and William Bartleet are all buried?

• Starting with The memorial covers the grave... There's three sentences in a row of the form "fact 1 and fact 2", which sounds stilted. Maybe something like "The Art Nouveau memorial, comprised of edging and a vertical cross, covers the grave. The edging consists of riveted sections of copper alloy sheet metal which follow the rectangular perimeter of the plot, connected by short pillars at each corner. The cross is of the celtic wheel variety, decorated in relief with a leaflike motif." Well, you get the idea. Longer sentences will flow better, and try not to repeat the same sentence structure over and over. Also try to avoid repeated words, such as in "The cross is a Celtic wheel cross".

• Works of Herbert Maryon says the memorial is "Bronze", this article says it's a copper alloy. Bronze is indeed a copper alloy, but why not just call it bronze here?

Just to clarify, I see that the source used calls it "copper alloy", but it's worth exploring why Works of Herbert Maryon calls it "bronze" and reconcile the differences.

• Newspapers at the time termed the memorial "very fine" and "quite unique" for the area,[1][2] and in 2022 it was designated a Grade II listed building. this is an odd juxtaposition of things that happened 100 years ago and something that happened recently. For the lead, I'd mention the Grade II listing and leave out the minor newspaper quotes.

• The article is quite short (DYK check says 5979 readable prose). MOS:LEADLENGTH suggests one or two paragraphs for under 15k. and this is 1/3 of that, so I'd say trim the lead to about half its current length, covering the most important facts from the main body. For example, I'd note that it's Grade II listed, but leave all the details for later.

The Duffields

• William Ward Duffield was born on 25 November 1820 to James Duffield, I assume James had the assistance of his wife in this. Do we know her name or anything about her?

• He went on to become a successful solicitor, who is "He"? William Ward or James?

• including as clerk Drop the "as".

• His private positions included a number of roles, drop the "a number of roles", just tell us what they were. As before, in and as chairman, no need for "as". You can "Be X" or "Serve as X", but don't mix the idioms.

• Duffield married Marianne Bartleet, there's a lot of Duffields being discussed; be explicit about which one you're talking about in this sentence.

• three surviving children: William Bartleet Duffield (1861–1918[8][9][10]), Arthur Stewart Duffield (1867–1930[11][12]), and Florence Marion Duffield No need to keep saying "Duffield". I'd write this as "three surviving children: William Bartleet (1861–1918[8][9][10]), Arthur Stewart (1867–1930[11][12]), and Florence Marion". I suppose we can infer gender from their first names, but that can sometimes be tricky, so perhaps " sons William Bartleet (...) and Arthur Stewart (...), and daughter Florence Marion"?

Herbert Maryon

• It's good to give some explanation of who this guy is beyond "he designed the thing", but this level of detail into Maryon's resume seems excessive. Are there some parts of his prior experience which would be particularly relevant to gaining the skills needed for this design?

Description

• 75 metres (246 ft) per MOS:UNCERTAINTY, you can't convert a measurement with two significant figures into one with three. It should be "75 metres (250 ft). I believe {{convert}} has a parameter to control that.

• As above, saying "bronze" rather than "copper alloy" would seem to make more sense, unless there's some good reason not to do so. In which case, maybe Works of Herbert Maryon needs fixing :-)

• The cross ... features a Celtic wheel cross avoid repetition of "cross".

• a medallion, now removed... Do we know why or when it was removed?

• Two copper plaques are riveted ... The west-facing plaque Avoid repeating "plaque". Perhaps "... the west-facing one"?

History

• The organisation cited historic interest, architectural interest avoid repetition of "interest".

• Historic England termed the memorial "an unusual example of churchyard memorial design that is also memorial to prominent local citizen William Ward Duffield and his son you can't do anything about HE's repetition of "memorial", but at least don't compound it with another one of your own :-)

Gallery

I'm not sure this section adds anything. The first image ("Plaque on the front of the Duffield Memorial's pedestal") could be incorporated into the main body, and "St. Mary's churchyard (Duffield Memorial not visible)" doesn't add anything to the reader's understanding of the memorial, since it's not visible in the photo.

General organization

I'm a little concerned that as much space is given to peripheral topics (the entire Background section) as is to the main topic. In particular (as I noted above), I think the Herbert Maryon section could be trimmed considerably. I'd also move the Description section up closer to the top of the article, since that's the main topic.

GWL

Interesting article. I'll take a look at what I see so far, then take other editors' comments for consideration after my comments are resolved. I've put invisible comments to divide my comments based on sections. GeraldWL 08:56, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

• Would be great if infobox img caption states when the img is taken "(pictured XXXX)"
• Is there any way in which the gallery imgs are placable at the body?
• Images need alt text. Per W3C, "Note that it does not necessarily describe the visual characteristics of the image itself but must convey the same meaning as the image."
• Are there no columns for the Times ref?
• Would be great if all Newspaper.com refs have a "via Newspapers.com" using the via parameter

• Link to whatever edging means here, it could mean several things
• If sheet metal is linked here, should be too in infobox
• "The cross is a Celtic wheel cross"-- repetition of cross --> "The cross is in the Celtic wheel style"
• Why not paraphrase the third para? If it's too short then it can be merged with para 2.

• "Chelmsford-based", "London-based"
• "included [...], including [...], including"-- repetition. first "including" could be changed to "such as", second "including" to "like"
• Why are some names redlinked, some not?
• Link Reading, Berkshire
• Dup link for Uni of Reading
• "After the Second World War"-- comma
• "Sutton Hoo ship-burial led to his appointment"-- WP:SEAOFBLUE

• Link Church of St Mary
• Duplicate refs of [1][2][3]
• Would love to have a footnote for LUX PERPETUA LUCEAT EIS (translation), and link AIX LES BAINS
• Dup refs of [3] in paras 2, 3, 4

• Dup refs [1][2]
• I would love for a brief descriptor of what a Grade II listed building means.
• Dup refs [3]
• In the listed building article, Grade II is given asterisk but why not here?