Talk:Convoy ON 92

Sabaton

Regarding the deletion of my edit; www.Sabaton.net is the official Sabaton website and not a fan one. ScruffyFox (talk) 07:56, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, but the info on the what the song means is fan-generated content. It is in the disclaimer at the end of the paragraph. This means that even though someone associated with the website published this info, it does not come from the band itself, just a fan's interpretation and therefore, not reliable info. Llammakey (talk) 11:33, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Spencer, not Ingham

When this article article was first posted in 2013 it stated the USCG cutter present was Spencer, per Arnold Hague’s convoyweb page (and supported by Blair and Edwards, now added). This was changed without explanation to Ingham in 2016, presumably by a Sabaton fan. I’ve changed it back, and left an edit note, to try and stop this crap recurring. Xyl 54 (talk) 17:49, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Is there any tangible evidence of Spencer being there for the engagement? Because it’s common practice to exchange ships after battle engagements Oakland95 (talk) 14:54, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

More to the point, is there any tangible evidence that the sources used here are wrong? Xyl 54 (talk) 20:37, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Ironically yes. The Main U-Boat site, which I've noticed every other source that claims Spencer, is full of Discrepancies. The most notable and very concerning being a Claim they had Sunk the USS Ranger (CV-4). I would not be very surprised if they had gotten this incorrect as well. Now the biggest issue with this entire argument, and can put all our demons to rest, the Coast Guard Cutter Ingham is a Museum ship in Key West, Florida. I am Nearly positive they have surviving Crew and/or documents claiming wether it was there or not in person. Now i don't know what your beef is with this band may be, but looking into them, they study and research a topic before or during song writing and have shown numerous sources through their site and videos that take a behind the scenes look. If you would like to take a look, I'll happily send it to you over discord, cherrycolaboi Oakland95 (talk) 20:53, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

@Xyl 54 https://uboat.net/ops/convoys/convoys.php?convoy=ONS-92 Jonnylego109 (talk) 15:43, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Sabaton, again

I notice the Popular Culture section containing the information about the Sabaton track has returned, despite the discussion above. In fact it has been added and deleted about half-a-dozen times since the article was written, and I reckon that’s likely to continue. So I suggest it stays, with the caveat (now added) that the song is wildly inaccurate; if there is a source that actually says this event inspired the song so much the better (I’ve requested a better source than the one that’s there at present - a youtube video by some Third Reich fan site, AFAICT, and which doesn’t mention ON 92 until 8 minutes in!). Xyl 54 (talk) 18:05, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

PS: Just to clarify some of the inaccuracies:[1]

• Of only three ships mentioned, one was wrong (see above)
• The ships in the convoy were not, in the main, tankers (the more valuable target), they were mostly freighters in ballast
• The rescue ship, Bury, was not 'left in flames', it wasn’t even fired on
• The U-boats did not leave 'half the convoy sunk or disabled', they sank seven out of 42 ships (one in six)
• The convoy didn’t 'run back to shore', the majority of the ships reached their destinations
• As for the wolfpack 'lurking, waiting', this one was regarded as a bit of failure by U-boat Command, as ON 92 was the only one attacked of about nine trans-Atlantic convoys at sea in May 1942.

Xyl 54 (talk) 18:48, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Inaccurate or not, its still a pop culture reference and should be added Oakland95 (talk) 22:53, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

You'll get no argument from me, but it still needs a source (something more than link to a band video) to back up the claim. Xyl 54 (talk) 20:41, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

I can link Genius Lyrics, the Sabaton site, as well as a video from the historian that assisted the band Oakland95 (talk) 20:54, 22 September 2023 (UTC)