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Masculinism

User:Firefangledfeathers, if you are adamant about conflating these terms and retaining ambiguities on the page between Masculism and Masculinism, you should provide citations sufficiently refuting the existing references on the page that currently provide sufficient context for disambiguating these terms. If you are unable or unwilling to counter the existing references, please leave the new Masculinism section alone. Thank you.

To reiterate, from the references in the page itself:

The concept of masculism, a term common to the early days of second wave feminism and especially related to men’s movement activities, presents one interesting asymmetry that uses feminism as the positive pole. Most closely associated with men’s movement activist Warren Farrell, the concept initially promoted gender egalitarianism and the promise of mutual benefit.^[1]

Men's rights associations

Hi everyone,

I thought this article was missing men's right associations, so I made a list:

Here is a list of men's rights associations:

International:

International Men's Day
Movember : Association for men's health / against suicide

French:

SOS PAPA : Association for the rights of fathers
Paternet : Association for the rights of fathers
Groupe d’études sur leS sexismeS: Men's studies
SOS Hommes Battus: Association against domestic violence
Fin du canCER et début de l'HOMme : Association for men's health
SVP PAPA : Association for the rights of fathers

Canadian:

Canadian Association for Equality : Men's studies

UK:

Fathers4Justice : Association for the rights of fathers

Edit: There is this huge list: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/wiki/sidebar/resources_for_men 28 février 2020 à 20:14 (CET) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard141 (talk • contribs) 19:15, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do you agree with adding such a list to the wikipedia page? Do you know other associations?

Regards,

--Richard141 (talk) 18:25, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia has a separate article on the men's rights movement. That isn't to say an indiscriminate list of groups is appropriate there either. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 20:24, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Navigation templates RfC

There is a request for comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Gender studies#‎Navigation templates: masculism related to this page. Please join the discussion there. Thank you. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:03, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The RfC has ended, and is archived at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Gender studies/Archive 5. --Sangdeboeuf (talk) 00:55, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Definition and scope - Straying on-topic?

The definition and scope has a notice that the section may stray into the topic of another article, Masculinism, which, turns out, redirects back to this article. Was there a merge, but the notice stayed? Should it be pointing somewhere else? 185.163.103.83 (talk) 14:27, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See Talk:Masculism/Archive 6#Scope changes. The terms are not equivalent, yet this article has incorrectly conflated them. -- Netoholic @ 16:56, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

...doesn't look like the issue may be moving forward in either direction any time soon. As much as I'd rather your side wins (right advocacy and promotion of attributes do seem like fairly different things), as it is right now the notice is just kida confusing for a passerby, and unless discussion or efforts are underway it may be best removed. ...Then again, this is coming from a public IP skimming by, I'm not well versed enough in how wikipedia works for my opinion to hold any weight.185.163.103.83 (talk) 19:13, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PS: Huh, completely forgot I was OP. That or there's some weird coincidence going on. Funny anonymous posting moments I guess - I should consider actually making an account some day. 185.163.103.83 (talk) 19:19, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal

I propose the merging of Meninism into Masculism. Both articles are already quite short, and I think that the subjects of both articles are doubtless similar enough to justify a merger. —Entity137 (talk) 09:17, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think this might be a good idea. I think we would just have to make sure the discussion of the actual term meninism, apart from the discussion of the term masculism, is discussed somewhere in the article. BappleBusiness (talk) 00:37, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I concur, there's no reason for this article to exist separately. LΞVIXIUS💬 18:56, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree the two pages should be merged. Chrisisreed (talk) 14:39, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Conscription and military service

There is nothing in the article about gender discrimination related to conscription and military service. Arty32 (talk) 07:17, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Probably because the sources don't mention it. You are free to add such material to the article that is supported by an independent reliable source. --Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:04, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feminist perspectives

Might be nice to include feminist perspectives about masculism, since the article includes masculist perspectives about feminism. For instance, many feminists would argue in favor of men's rights and say that women are not the only people oppressed by patriarchy. And others might make critiques of "men's rights" as a distraction. 4kbw9Df3Tw (talk) 03:13, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Definition

The simple fact is that there is no one agreed-upon definition of this term; the "definition and scope" section goes into a great deal of depth on this. Some tweaks to the lead might help make this more clear, but overall it lists the most prominent definitions that appear in the body of the article - most of the recent edits seem to have been pushing to rewrite the lead and parts of the article around just one definition and one source as if it were definitely correct, which isn't at all supported by the wide variety of sources and differing definitions in the body. --Aquillion (talk) 22:36, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Responding here both to this and the broader set of Jamarr81's changes. I agree that tweaks might be helpful, but the overall effect of the changes was to worsen the NPOV of the article. Sources do not primarily define masculism as a "movement that seeks gender egalitarianism", and we should not be inserting the view that the OED has done something "mistakenly", unless that view is very well supported by reliable sources. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 00:25, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jamarr81: wanted to make sure you're aware of this discussion. Aquillion and I are not vandalizing, we just disagree on your approach to the article so far. Please self-revert and make the case for your changes here. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 00:28, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ Duerst-Lahti, Georgia (2008). "Gender Ideology: masculinism and femininalism". In Goertz, Gary; Mazur, Amy G. (eds.). Politics, gender, and concepts: theory and methodology. Cambridge University Press. p. 169. ISBN 978-0-521-72342-8.

[Duerst-Lahti_2008-1] Duerst-Lahti, Georgia (2008). "Gender Ideology: masculinism and femininalism". In Goertz, Gary; Mazur, Amy G. (eds.). Politics, gender, and concepts: theory and methodology. Cambridge University Press. p. 169. ISBN 978-0-521-72342-8.

[1]

@@ Line 23: / Line 23: @@
 == Masculinism ==
 [[User:Firefangledfeathers]], if you are adamant about conflating these terms and retaining ambiguities on the page between ''Masculism'' and ''Masculinism'', you should provide citations sufficiently refuting the existing references on the page that currently provide sufficient context for disambiguating these terms. If you are unable or unwilling to counter the existing references, please leave the new ''Masculinism'' section alone. Thank you.
+To reiterate, from the references in the page itself:
+ The concept of masculism, a term common to the early days of second wave feminism and especially related to men’s movement activities, presents one interesting asymmetry that uses feminism as the positive pole. Most closely associated with men’s movement activist Warren Farrell, the concept initially promoted gender egalitarianism and the promise of mutual benefit.<ref name="Duerst-Lahti 2008">{{cite book |last=Duerst-Lahti |first=Georgia |chapter=Gender Ideology: masculinism and femininalism |pages=169 |editor1-last=Goertz |editor1-first=Gary |editor2-last=Mazur |editor2-first=Amy G. |title=Politics, gender, and concepts: theory and methodology |year=2008 |publisher=Cambridge University Press |isbn=978-0-521-72342-8}}</ref>
 == Men's rights associations ==